I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

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yakattack
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I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

Post by yakattack »

Hey guys.

So with my new boiler I am running steam injection for stripping on the grain. Now I need a pump that will handle the grain slurry.

I have a 2 inch tc connection at the bottom end of the boiler to hook it up to.

I know some of you out there must be transferring either in and out or just out of your boilers with a pump.

What is going to handle the slurry /solids,

Anyone got any links to what they would use or do use?

Yak
HDNB wrote: The trick here is to learn what leads to a stalled mash....and quit doing that.
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bitter
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

Post by bitter »

Would a sewage pump work? They are meant to move chunks etc.
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

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bitter wrote:Would a sewage pump work? They are meant to move chunks etc.

Maybe. I was looking at a 1/10 hp flexable impeller pump with ss housing and pump body. It looks like it should do the job but don't want to drop the 115 us for it if someone has tried them before and found they don't work for this application
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

Post by acfixer69 »

yakattack wrote:
bitter wrote:Would a sewage pump work? They are meant to move chunks etc.

Maybe. I was looking at a 1/10 hp flexable impeller pump with ss housing and pump body. It looks like it should do the job but don't want to drop the 115 us for it if someone has tried them before and found they don't work for this application
You will need alot more then 1/10 hp to lift a slurry. More like 1-1/2 hp with a grinder or you will be cleaning the pump thru the run. Sewage pump would work but are quite pricey and of course I would want a new one. :)

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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

Post by yakattack »

AC, I've already come to the acceptance that this is going to be one of the buy once cry once purchases. I figure with everything that I've done to upgrade my equipment, all I need now is the proper transfer pump and an on demand steam generator. Currently looking at building the steam dragon steam generater. This would be the only way I would do anything anymore. From cooking mash for beer and everything else, to sanatization, to distilling on the grain and pummoce for brandies.

But the pump is my biggest concern
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

Post by acfixer69 »

I am like you willing to pay the cost up front, I have back issues, big ones, so moving wet spent grains from my basement brew room to a container at ground level about a 12 foot lift is my goal. I have had no luck with impeller pump with even a soft rye grain. I hoping some of the plumbers can open the door for both of us. I'm signed in and watching. :thumbup:

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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

Post by HDNB »

I tried a 3/4 in/out flexible impeller pump. it will move it with 1/2hp 1750 rpm motor but was prone to plugging even finely ground corn. rye was better but it still plugged. simply sucks the water out the slurry and bingo, yer done.
from an economy standpoint a 1" NPT in/out would likely not plug as often.
the solution that works is a 2" npt with 2hp driving at 1750rpm...it gets the job done fast, fast, fast and no chance of plugging and unless you stumble upon a deal like i did it will run you 2000 bucks...

look up jabsco flexible impeller marine pumps.

fwiw, diaphram pumps are rumoured to work. centrifugal will NOT work.
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

Post by shadylane »

Figuring out how to pump a slurry isn't that difficult.
The real problem is feeding the pump :lol:
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

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shadylane wrote:Figuring out how to pump a slurry isn't that difficult.
The real problem is feeding the pump :lol:
Explain that to me shady I have a 2" ball valve on the cooker and can fill a sump basin fine. I can't pump the sump.
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

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HDNB wrote:I tried a 3/4 in/out flexible impeller pump. it will move it with 1/2hp 1750 rpm motor but was prone to plugging even finely ground corn. rye was better but it still plugged. simply sucks the water out the slurry and bingo, yer done.
from an economy standpoint a 1" NPT in/out would likely not plug as often.
the solution that works is a 2" npt with 2hp driving at 1750rpm...it gets the job done fast, fast, fast and no chance of plugging and unless you stumble upon a deal like i did it will run you 2000 bucks...

look up jabsco flexible impeller marine pumps.

fwiw, diaphram pumps are rumoured to work. centrifugal will NOT work.

Thank you hdnb, that's the kind of experience i was hoping to find. Centrifugal won't but from my understanding a positive displacement pump should. Size appropriately of course.

I have a 2 inch tc at the bottom so I'd like to keep that feed size through the pump if possible.

I was even considering a trash pump if I can find an electric one.

Shadylane - can you elaborate please?

If your talking about what I think your talking about the grain would need to stay in suspension ( read good agitation and extra water) for it to effectively pump the grains out. I don't have to lift high. A few feet at max. Ad I'll still be dumping out back in 5 gallon pails. Just want to be able to tranger from fermenter to boiler and boiler to pails.

How do the micro guys do it?
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

Post by Skipper1953 »

I use diaphragm pumps at work to move some pretty heavy sludge (waster water processing). Most of my experience is with 2" pumps but I have used a 1" pump on occasion. The 2" pumps are heavy and expensive. A 1" may work for the grain slurry while being lighter and less expensive. My experience is limited to pneumatic powered pumps.
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

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Skipper1953 wrote:I use diaphragm pumps at work to move some pretty heavy sludge (waster water processing). Most of my experience is with 2" pumps but I have used a 1" pump on occasion. The 2" pumps are heavy and expensive. A 1" may work for the grain slurry while being lighter and less expensive. My experience is limited to pneumatic powered pumps.
Hmm. Not a bad option. Under 500 us for a 1 inch diagram pump that can handled solids of 1/8 of an inch.

Just need a compressor thay will.handle.that...
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

Post by HDNB »

the slurry does dewater in a flat bottom vessel. even in a conical bottom you will need to spray some water on the walls in order to keep the grain moving towards the suction hose.
in a flat bottom vessel you pretty much have to wash down to get the grain out of it. Plus, you want to wash the hoses and pump out with clean water anyway.

i had musings about an auger to remove grain but initial experiments with low cost plastic and flexible steel auger has not been promising...or more specifically as efficient as one would want. stainless auger is far too expensive.

i've seen some cheap gas trash pumps at princess auto (don't know if you have one of those close by) if you cant run gas, they have replacement pumps and electric motors and motor/pump couplers there...just need a cart to mount it all to...and they prolly got those too!
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

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HDNB wrote:the slurry does dewater in a flat bottom vessel. even in a conical bottom you will need to spray some water on the walls in order to keep the grain moving towards the suction hose.
in a flat bottom vessel you pretty much have to wash down to get the grain out of it. Plus, you want to wash the hoses and pump out with clean water anyway.

i had musings about an auger to remove grain but initial experiments with low cost plastic and flexible steel auger has not been promising...or more specifically as efficient as one would want. stainless auger is far too expensive.

i've seen some cheap gas trash pumps at princess auto (don't know if you have one of those close by) if you cant run gas, they have replacement pumps and electric motors and motor/pump couplers there...just need a cart to mount it all to...and they prolly got those too!
Boiler is barrel. On its side, and drain is very bottom on end. But yes would be using the water from the condensor. I use city water but usually run into a 50 gallon barrel and that water gets used in almost everything I do brewing wise. From soaking grains to malt to cooking up a mash, cleaning. It just never gets used to dilute alcohol unless it's to bring a charge under 40 percent. Waste not want not.

Hadn't thought of building my own. And princess auto is 15 min away so very doable.

Just found a 1 inch ntp double diaphragm pump. Aluminum housing, 1/2 inch air inlet. For $90 US. And since it's ocasional duty to just remove the grains and backset from the boiler I'm not concerned with the material used in the pump construction. 90 to test it seems like an easier pill to swallow if it doesn't work as intended. If it did I would spring for a ss and ptfe version for about 900 US.

But I may be able to do ad hdnb suggested and build one cheaper and easier.

I'll have to hit princess auto soon
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

Post by Aussiedownunder01 »

When you say you want to lift it 12 ft that will cause other problems
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

Post by Mr.Spooky »

have you looked at debris handling pond pumps?
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

Post by steelmb »

Are you guys trying to transfer mash to the boiler or just removing waste. If you are just removing waste, I think you guys are way overthinking things but this newbie is gonna wait and see how convoluted and expensive this gets before putting in his $0.02. :moresarcasm:
I believe MCH may have said it best. "It's your hooch, you get to choose."
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

Post by yakattack »

Do share. I'm still trying to decide how I want to do this. At the moment I'm contimplating usingy shop vac
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

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yakattack wrote:Do share. I'm still trying to decide how I want to do this. At the moment I'm contimplating usingy shop vac
If you are just trying to remove waste then yes the shop vac (wet vac) works great! I am not sure why you would not trust your instincts. I bet if done right it would even do acfier's 12 foot lift. my only problem is my vac is too small and I have to empty it too often.
I believe MCH may have said it best. "It's your hooch, you get to choose."
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

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Ideally everything gets mechanized. Turn pump on. Pump into buckets. Carry buckets out back to compost pile. Dump. Have a smoke. Head back in for more buckets. Or pump into a geobag allowing liquid to drain and dispose of grain after dewatering.

But yes my shop vac will do it.

Also looking to build a venturi style pump as a proof of concept sick icon basicly make that from parts on hand.

But a pump that could handle the mash into the boiler would be the cats ass lol.
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

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I knew I should have kept my $0,02 to myself. :wtf:

Edit: I could sense that you were looking for convoluted and expensive rather than simple and inexpensive. Can't wait to see how you get it into the boiler.
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

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steelmb wrote:I knew I should have kept my $0,02 to myself. :wtf:

Why do say that?
Did I miss something?
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

Post by DeepSouth »

I have a 2" flexible impeller pump to move mash in my distillery. It was one of my most expensive pieces of equipment. I just ordered a replacement impeller and it cost $165 :mad: . I have a 3/4" flexible impeller pump I've used in the past to pump mash, but the advice you've gotten so far is correct. A flat bottom tank will want to dewater your mash and you need some way to keep the grain in suspension while pumping. Since my 300 gallon fermenters are open top, I use a paddle to keep the grain suspended during transfer to the still, and at the end I use a spray nozzle on a water hose to get the rest and finish rinsing through the pump and hoses. If you have an air compressor, I'd try either the diaphragm pump, or I've also heard folks use peristaltic pumps for mash but that may be too pricey.
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

Post by BDF »

If you can route a hose, is there any reason you can't set-up a pully to hoist a bucket with an electric winch?
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

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DeepSouth - I do have a good compressor so that's a good route to go for me if I can find one cheap enough.

I've been so busy lately I haven't had a chance go deal with this.

Bdf- not quite sure what you're asking but with my boiler being so heavy and my column being so heavy I don't want to have to take it apart to empty the boiler.

Where I distill I'm limited by height being under 6 ft so hoisting it up isn't really an option at this time. Besides by the time I brace the lift points, buy an electric winch, ect, Iay as well buy a pump which will allow me to move mash both into and put of the boiler.

I'm really intrigued with venturi pumps. I think I can build one out of fittings and pipe that I have at home. Run it off of city water or compressed air, but it would only be good for cleaning out the boiler.

Hoping to have this figured out soon.
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

Post by Corsaire »

So I never had to try this, I'm new and starting off with sugar heads, but wouldn't an airlift do the job? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airlift_pump
Some guys who have huge koi ponds use this to pump a lot of water, suck up all the dirt that's on the bottom and aerate their water. They don't pump very high though.
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

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Corsaire wrote:So I never had to try this, I'm new and starting off with sugar heads, but wouldn't an airlift do the job? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airlift_pump
Some guys who have huge koi ponds use this to pump a lot of water, suck up all the dirt that's on the bottom and aerate their water. They don't pump very high though.
Yup that's a venturi pump, I only need to get 2 feet and one 180 degree bend. I'm still at work. Been here since 6 am. I'm going to try to make one this weekend if I get a chance.
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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

Post by bitter »

Long day yak.

Ventrui pump will work water driven also.

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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

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BDF wrote:If you can route a hose, is there any reason you can't set-up a pully to hoist a bucket with an electric winch?
YES.

My nephew has a gantry; it's a winch that lifts, then it runs sideways on rails to where he wants to lower the load.

Quite small, and not expensive. I saw one in Google for $80 Australian just for the winch, and you could buy or fabricate the roller system that runs on an overhead rail.

Just push it sideways, no need for motorised sideways movement.

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Re: I need a pump that will handle ground grain slurry.

Post by HDNB »

on hobby scale i think this would do
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SEA-RAW-WAT ... e7&vxp=mtr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

1 1/4 is kind of an oddball pipe size though. add a decent motor is not crazy money...it's bigger than the 3/4" that works but plugs up a lot...and about 1800 cheaper than the 2" that is huge overkill so.... maybe a good compromise.
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