Need advice on heating system

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JohnsMyName
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Need advice on heating system

Post by JohnsMyName »

I recently upgraded my setup to include a 13 gal pot style and decided to go with an internal electric source. I have 220 power and would like go 5500w unless there's a compelling reason not to?

I bought the still from Hillbilly Stills and they offer a unit that looks nice, but it's $550 :shock: I've seen other units like the Brewcraft for $470. This seems awfully high to me. I don't mind spending the money on quality, but are these any better than a DIY kit? If not, is there a particular DIY kit that you all suggest? The other route would be to order all my parts individually, is that much cheaper?

I'm not very familiar with electrical components, but am also not intimidated by building my own. I have some pretty knowledgeable guys I work with that can offer assistance.

What would you guys do??
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MichiganCornhusker
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Re: Need advice on heating system

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

Keg, 2" copper ferrule w/ triclamp, short riser w/ elbow, internal 5500W element, Liebig condenser.
Under $300 and a great setup that you can modify and add to later.
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JohnsMyName
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Re: Need advice on heating system

Post by JohnsMyName »

MichiganCornhusker wrote:Keg, 2" copper ferrule w/ triclamp, short riser w/ elbow, internal 5500W element, Liebig condenser.
Under $300 and a great setup that you can modify and add to later.
Thanks for the response MCH, but not sure what your saying (wrong paste from clipboard?), what is a good <$300 setup?
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MichiganCornhusker
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Re: Need advice on heating system

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

It's a pretty standard setup. Use the HD Google Search function at top of page to looks up key words to see what others have done. Kegs are durable as boilers, buy one legit on eBay. No need for a tall column as a pot still. Liebig is cheap, easy and effective.

Typing from phone or would help more.
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JohnsMyName
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Re: Need advice on heating system

Post by JohnsMyName »

MichiganCornhusker wrote:It's a pretty standard setup. Use the HD Google Search function at top of page to looks up key words to see what others have done. Kegs are durable as boilers, buy one legit on eBay. No need for a tall column as a pot still. Liebig is cheap, easy and effective.

Typing from phone or would help more.
Yes the phone typing is def a pain! I'm still confused (pun intended) about what you are talking about, I already have a still, I'm just looking for peoples thoughts on internal heating systems and the pros vs cons concerning buying a unit vs building one.
seamusm53
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Re: Need advice on heating system

Post by seamusm53 »

This is a product page from Brewhaus. https://brewhaus.com/distilling-equipme ... -elements/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I have both band heater and the ceramic element which I believe is for a water heater. I use both to move the boiler up to temp fast and then turn off the band (which gets hot enough to have scorched a blanket I'd wrapped around the boiler to minimize heat loss).

The band heater is fit for their boilers. The ceramic element uses a standard fitting.

I have a controller but on my 8 and 15 gallon boilers the ceramic element (1500W) maintains a perfect steady drip out of my condenser without it.

Hope this answers your question.
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JohnsMyName
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Re: Need advice on heating system

Post by JohnsMyName »

That is helpful thanks. I'm surprised the 1500w handles the 15 gallon well, but If you use the secondary source to get up to temp, that is a good idea.
seamusm53
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Re: Need advice on heating system

Post by seamusm53 »

I should add that 1500W keeps the 15 gal boiler running in an outdoor Texas environment (a HOT garage) and I do require insulation around the boiler in winter.
zapata
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Re: Need advice on heating system

Post by zapata »

Brewhardware for solderable triclamp flange and element guard kit and their silver solder kit if you dont have any suitable for stainless. The thick base and pre machined radius on the flange is a dream to work with after having codged together several alternatives over the years. SD for the controller kit, hands down best value out there. Harbor freight for the hole punch set if you don't have a way to make the hole. Amazon or brewhardware for the element, havent priced them lately. Local hardware store for wires.

All that is probably in the 2-$300 range.

Make sure you come up with a suitable gfci option. Most homes will not have a 240V gfci breaker in them. A 240V gfci breaker for my old panel was prohibitiely expensive, like $200. That leaves inline options in the $100-$200 range or a spa panel. Most Lowes/home depot types have a small panel box with a 240V gfci breaker usually used for spas for $60 ish. I didnt really want the panel, but it was the cheapest way I could get gfci. Now I kinda like having it handy as a kill switch right by the still if things ever go sideways.

I bet you could do this all for about $300
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Swedish Pride
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Re: Need advice on heating system

Post by Swedish Pride »

http://stilldragon.com/index.php/diy-sm ... oller.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://stilldragon.com/index.php/element-guard-kit.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Camco-Mfg-02963- ... Swxp9W4E-Z" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Add some 6mm cable and a 2" ferrule in the side of your boiler and you should just about nudge 150$
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zapata
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Re: Need advice on heating system

Post by zapata »

The still dragon element kit is nice, but dont forget you have to get a fitting on your pot to connect it to. Which is where the radius cut solderable fitting from brehardware comes in. $20
Most brewers seem to go with this 1.5"
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tc15rsf.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Personally I went 2" just for compatibility with other 2" stuff already laying around.
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JohnsMyName
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Re: Need advice on heating system

Post by JohnsMyName »

Thnaks for the responses guys. I'll be looking into these. Never considered GFCI, I just have a regular 220, 30 amp 3 prong outlet for say a washer.
zapata
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Re: Need advice on heating system

Post by zapata »

I see some people don't worry about GFI, but personally I wouldn't consider not having it. I didnt have it for a few runs, and it made me nervous as hell. A cooling water leak, a hose popping off, a stupid filling or siphoning mistake, theres just too much possible risk there for me. And adding the spa panel was just about $60 more, well worth life or even just peace of mind. If you can run a still without ever having a spill, splash, spray or leak then you are much luckier or more careful than me.

You can wire a gfci spa panel to a plug that fits your 3 prong outlet if its convenient and cheaper than running wires/outlets. I've done that personally, and its been documented by many brewers. So 30A main panel breaker -> outlet -> matching plug -> spa panel -> controller -> element/s. You'll still be power limited by the 30A breaker (really 24A @ 80% for continuous load) in the main panel not the 50A in the spa panel. But everything downstream of the spa panel will be GF protected. So long as you don't splash the outlet you'll be protected. And it makes everything non-permanant if you ever move, build a stillhouse etc.

You're in the states? I think all US 3 prong outlets are wired with 2 hots and a neutral, there will be no dedicated ground. You can use the neutral as ground in the spa panel and controller. Its not code compliant which is why new outlets are 4 pronged, but it'll still keep you safe. I think the only drawback is downstream of the spa panel you won't be able to pull 120 from just 1 hot and the neutral, say for a cooling fan in the controller or running a pump, the spa panel would see that as a ground fault. So I run a dc cooling fan in my controller off a junk dc cell phone charger inside the controller, many chargers work on 240v as well as 120v. And since it was in the junk drawer it beat buying a 240v fan.

Check inside the outlet though, it may have 4 wires in it (2 hot, 1 N, 1G).It seems silly, but I've seen houses that had 4 wires installed, but at some point a previous owner downgraded the outlet to 3 prong rather than upgrading the plug on their drier. In which case I'd put in a 4 prong outlet and wire the spa panel accordingly.

1 piece of advice if you go this way, size your wiring to be able to handle the full 50 or 60A of the spa panel if you think there is any possibility you may want it later. I didnt do that when I was running off the drier outlet, and wished I did after getting a gas stove and realizing I now had an unused 50A circuit from the old electric stove. Had to upgrade the wire feeding the spa panel. But let me tell you there is huge difference in heatup time between 5500w and 9,500w! Of course that required another ferrule + element + wiring = will I ever save money with this hobby?
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JohnsMyName
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Re: Need advice on heating system

Post by JohnsMyName »

Wow zapata, great response, many thanks.
NineInchNails

Re: Need advice on heating system

Post by NineInchNails »

I would check out these controllers from Auber Instruments http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_ ... x&cPath=53

All you would need is a project box, some wire, a Solid State Relay (Auber sells them too), a heat sink and maybe a couple odds and ends. Auber makes top notch stuff. I've built a couple of PID controllers from Auber and they work perfectly. For a basic controller, I would probably go with either the DSPR1 or the DSPR120 for it's optional bells & whistles.

I will be buying one of these basic controllers soon so I could provide a wiring diagram if needed. You could give Auber a call and I imagine they would provide a quote for a fully assembled controller. They sell fully assembled controllers, but just not specifically for the 2 I recommended.
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Re: Need advice on heating system

Post by NineInchNails »

Still Dragon also sells a totally different type of DIY controller kit for $41. http://stilldragon.com/index.php/diy-la ... oller.html

They make good stuff.
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