Work horse mash mixer

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japsinok
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Work horse mash mixer

Post by japsinok »

I did some salvage work today in a building scheduled for demolition next week. Came home with two of these. Dayton 3/4 hp, 1725RPM, 90V DC with reversible speed controller and right angle gear reducer, 5/8" SS shaft with SS impellers. They can be slowed to almost 0 RPM in either direction and top speed is just several hundred RPMs. This thing runs super quiet!! I think a mash mixer is in my future.

My question is if I should replace the bottom impeller, or modify it so that it has a flat bottom edge. Is that necessary to keep the grain from scorching, or will those big a$$ paddles keep anything from settling on the bottom long enough to burn, even though they are curved? Obviously I will learn the answer but would appreciate suggestions before I either burn a mash, or modify the impeller needlessly. There is another 24" extension so I have a lot of flexibility in how far above the mash it will be mounted, or how close I can get to the bottom.

Also scored a never used NSF rated 15 gallon 18g 304SS pot that I will use for mashing. It is the exact same size I currently use, but my old BOP is aluminum, so the SS will be an upgrade for mashing.
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yakattack
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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You lucky bugger. Want to sell the other one? Lol
HDNB wrote: The trick here is to learn what leads to a stalled mash....and quit doing that.
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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japsinok wrote:My question is....if I should replace the bottom impeller, or modify it so that it has a flat bottom edge...Is that necessary to keep the grain from scorching, or will those big a$$ paddles keep anything from settling on the bottom long enough to burn, even though they are curved?
Bottom fired propane burner? It quite possibly will still stick and scorch unless you scrape the bottom of the tun as you mash. Der wo's agitator design scrapes the bottom as it runs too, reducing the possibility for sticking and scorching.

I use a recirculating pump to move the liquid through piping to a hot liquor tank that is maintained at the target temperature. So, I don't direct fire my mash tun. If anything, I'd use steam or recirculating water to heat the mash in the tun if I wasn't recirculating the mash liquor (wort).
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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yakattack wrote:You lucky bugger. Want to sell the other one? Lol
I'd better hold onto it. Backup parts, and all. :lol:
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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Thanks SS, that is the feedback I'm looking for. Yes, fired from below (nat gas). I'll have a closer look at der wo's agitator. I think I should be able to come up with something, though I'm not sure about metal moving (scraping) against metal over the entire surface area of the bottom. Fortunately, I have a test pot, a 34qt aluminum pot with the same diameter that I no longer use, that I can use to work out a solution.
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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japsinok wrote:
yakattack wrote:You lucky bugger. Want to sell the other one? Lol
I'd better hold onto it. Backup parts, and all. :lol:
Can't blame a guy for trying :p. But in all seriousness good score mate. Should work a treat.
HDNB wrote: The trick here is to learn what leads to a stalled mash....and quit doing that.
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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yakattack wrote:
japsinok wrote:
yakattack wrote:You lucky bugger. Want to sell the other one? Lol
I'd better hold onto it. Backup parts, and all. :lol:
Can't blame a guy for trying :p. But in all seriousness good score mate. Should work a treat.
Certainly, can't blame you there!! :)
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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No scraping needed . Run that rascal in reverse fast enough that you can hear and see aeration during mashing . A dozen witnesses watched that happen at my place during S3-17 using a propane burner .
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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Thanks TB. I'll get some cheap TSC cracked corn and do a test before I make any changes to the blades. Right now, all I have is blue corn and I don't want to waste it ($30/50 lb) on a test mash.
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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japsinok wrote:Thanks TB. I'll get some cheap TSC cracked corn and do a test before I make any changes to the blades. Right now, all I have is blue corn and I don't want to waste it ($30/50 lb) on a test mash.
Grind that TSC cracked corn finer for better conversion . If you get whole corn and do your own grind you will get a fresher product to mash . Cracked corn can go rancid with age .
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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japsinok wrote:.... can be slowed to almost 0 RPM in either direction and top speed is just several hundred RPMs....
...My question is if I should replace the bottom impeller, or modify it so that it has a flat bottom edge....Obviously I will learn the answer but would appreciate suggestions before I either burn a mash, or modify the impeller needlessly.
Just a thought
Have you researched a slow speed, chain rummager ?
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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Ah, good point! I have always used the cracked corn (before I had a mill), so that was my first thought. But now that I have a corona and a heavy duty drill, grinding 20# is stupid easy. I have not yet had it to go rancid, but the weevils have taken their share when I've kept it long enough such that I have had to throw some of it away in the past.
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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shadylane wrote:
japsinok wrote:.... can be slowed to almost 0 RPM in either direction and top speed is just several hundred RPMs....
...My question is if I should replace the bottom impeller, or modify it so that it has a flat bottom edge....Obviously I will learn the answer but would appreciate suggestions before I either burn a mash, or modify the impeller needlessly.
Just a thought
Have you researched a slow speed, chain rummager ?
Shady, similar to der wo's set up? I'm reading about that now.

The nice thing about all of this free stuff is that i got two sets of two impellers for each shaft. If I screw one up, I can swap it to the top. Lots of options to test and see what works best for me.
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

Post by UrToopid »

If you have movement and abrasion, you won't have to worry about scorching or sticking. Consider adding a couple pounds of crushed oyster shells into the mash as you cook it. The stir paddles will keep the mash moving and the shells will keep the pot clean.. all the while stabilizing your pH for optimal malt conversion once you reach gelatinization. The oyster shells will almost all sink to the bottom and the rest will come out in the straining/separating stage (usually after fermentation) the shells actually help to maintain an even pH and steady ferment and should make great use of that sexy mixer.


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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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I think propellers like those on the picture will turn around the mash complete. You will have a rotating cylinder mash. This will fight successfully scorching but it will not mix the mash. Perhaps use only the downest of the three impellers (am I right? 2 SS and 1 plastic impeller?) and mount a small paddle vertical down the lid, which doesn't rotate but breaks the rotating movement.
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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der wo wrote:I think propellers like those on the picture will turn around the mash complete. You will have a rotating cylinder mash. This will fight successfully scorching but it will not mix the mash. Perhaps use only the downest of the three impellers (am I right? 2 SS and 1 plastic impeller?) and mount a small paddle vertical down the lid, which doesn't rotate but breaks the rotating movement.
That's correct. The acrylic separating the two SS impellers was to keep the impellers away from the wall of the 12"PVC pipe that it was mounted inside. It does not contribute to movement. Yes, I will only use the lower paddles for mixing mash. I plan to mash this weekend so I'll get the chance to see how well it mixes, versus just rotating the mash. I have four of those so there is the opportunity to bend blades to adjust the angle, etc, and if I screw one up, there are three more.

What I really want to see is if 160 in-lb of torque (the rating of the motor) will move gelatinzed corn to mix in the alpha- and gluco amylase, before it has liquified.
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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UrToopid wrote:If you have movement and abrasion, you won't have to worry about scorching or sticking. Consider adding a couple pounds of crushed oyster shells into the mash as you cook it. The stir paddles will keep the mash moving and the shells will keep the pot clean.. all the while stabilizing your pH for optimal malt conversion once you reach gelatinization. The oyster shells will almost all sink to the bottom and the rest will come out in the straining/separating stage (usually after fermentation) the shells actually help to maintain an even pH and steady ferment and should make great use of that sexy mixer.
Hmmm, interesting thought. I do use oyster shells to buffer pH (only 1/4 cup per 5 gallons) but never that much. But it wouldn't hurt since it only dissolves as the pH goes down.
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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japsinok wrote: The acrylic separating the two SS impellers was to keep the impellers away from the wall of the 12"PVC pipe that it was mounted inside. It does not contribute to movement.
"It does not contribute to movement" means that the acrylic thing doesn't rotate? Then it will mix very good. You only have to find out a good rpm. Probably relatively slow or the mash gushes out the bucket.
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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der wo wrote:
japsinok wrote: The acrylic separating the two SS impellers was to keep the impellers away from the wall of the 12"PVC pipe that it was mounted inside. It does not contribute to movement.
"It does not contribute to movement" means that the acrylic thing doesn't rotate? Then it will mix very good. You only have to find out a good rpm. Probably relatively slow or the mash gushes out the bucket.
That's right, the acrylic was there only to stabilize the blades, preventing them from hitting the edge of the pipe it had been mounted in when it was used to recirculate water in a laminar flow flume. The acrylic is just free spinning on the shaft. But that does not matter because I plan to remove that acrylic part anyway since it is not needed in the mash tun (and the bolts holding it together are rusty).

It's interesting that I get such different opinions on the need for your slow speed rummager to prevent scorching. I'll soon know!!
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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japsinok wrote: It's interesting that I get such different opinions on the need for your slow speed rummager to prevent scorching. I'll soon know!!
i'll offer another opinion for you to contemplate if you haven't all ready.

screw Teflon wipers on the lower blades to fit nicely in the bottom of your mash tun.
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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You are overthinking this . A simple drywall mixing paddle run in reverse will give you all you need without fancy scrapers and elaborate counterflow blades .
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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Truckinbutch wrote:You are overthinking this . A simple drywall mixing paddle run in reverse will give you all you need without fancy scrapers and elaborate counterflow blades .
Not really trying to overthink it (though frankly, I do enjoy this kind of thinking!!). I actually have a drywall mixer that I sometimes use with my Milwaukee Magnum drill. But I picked up two of these workhorses for free so I'm just doing some mental masturbating to figure out how best to use one of them as a mixer. I have enjoyed the feedback.
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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Here's my mash mixer set-up.
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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Beuatiful, Euphoria! I particularly like the stand.

I'm kind of limited in how I make my stand because my burner is connected to NG, and not very mobile. So the stand and mixer will have to service the mash tun in its current location.
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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japsinok wrote:Beuatiful, Euphoria! I particularly like the stand.

I'm kind of limited in how I make my stand because my burner is connected to NG, and not very mobile. So the stand and mixer will have to service the mash tun in its current location.
Straddle mount your mixer atatched to to a simple 2x4 frame . Lift on/lift off as needed .
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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Yea, that is what I was planning. A simple 2x4 frame will get the job done. I have some solid wood (pecan I think) countertop slabs salvaged from an old science lab that I can use to make a top that I can then bolt the mixer to. As you say, I can just remove the whole thing from beside the mash pot. I'll post photos when that's done.
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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Got the stand made and the mixer bolted to it. Gelatinized 20# of blue corn in 7 gal (5 gal H2O + 2 gal backset). After it turned to congealed corn pudding, I added 2 gal H2O and mixed to cool it to 160F (that is my typical final ratio, 20# grain:9 gal liquid= 10 gal final volume). The mixer did not struggle a bit, turning those 11" blades in Quikset corn!! 40% speed is about 80 rpm, and 50% was ~125 rpm. 30% (just under 60 rpm) did not seem to move it enough to keep the bottom clear before it gelatinized. I ran it CCW with the blades forcing the mash down, out to the edge, and then back up the sides, though not sure which is best for this application where it is heating from the bottom.

As the stand now sits, the blades are about 4" off the bottom. I may need to lower it a little, maybe about 2 inches. It's going to take a little optimizing to figure out the best set up (speed, direction, height from bottom of the pot, heat input). But for the cost of four 8' 2x4s ($12) to make the stand, I'm not complaining!! And with another shaft and blades that I'm not using, I can still experiment with making a slow speed rummager, ala der wo's set up.

Initial observations:
The corn never seemed to reach 200F, like it always has done. In fact, I never measured above 170F. Yet it still fully gelatinized to the expected thickness so I did not feel the need to keep heating it since it clearly thickened. I want to figure that one out!!

This obviously gets the enzymes more thoroughly mixed into the mash, much better than using a manual paddle (oar?). I'll soon know (in the morning) if this has any effect on conversion. It is sweetening now, so there is certainly conversion going on.

I don't want to move it a lot. The stand and mixer are REALLY heavy!!

This thing would easily mix a much larger mash. Room to grow!!
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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japsinok wrote:Ah, good point! I have always used the cracked corn (before I had a mill), so that was my first thought. But now that I have a corona and a heavy duty drill, grinding 20# is stupid easy
First of all, I'm not NEARLY as mechanically inclined as most of the folks here. Just enough to be dangerous.
You mentioned you have two of these. Could you not rig the second one to run your mill?

:mrgreen:
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

Post by der wo »

Japsinok,
perhaps it's time now to think about a lid and about insulation. You will have to heat much less.
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Re: Work horse mash mixer

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Bamaberry wrote:
japsinok wrote:Ah, good point! I have always used the cracked corn (before I had a mill), so that was my first thought. But now that I have a corona and a heavy duty drill, grinding 20# is stupid easy
First of all, I'm not NEARLY as mechanically inclined as most of the folks here. Just enough to be dangerous.
You mentioned you have two of these. Could you not rig the second one to run your mill?

:mrgreen:
I hadn't thought about that, but yes, it could be done. Although, I'm not sure if the quality of the Corona which just clamps to a bench, matches the heavy duty nature of that motor.
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