Liebig huffing question

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Liebig huffing question

Postby Ferthy » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:39 pm

Hello,
Well I have my new 5 gallon keg still all assembled. I run it with a 1500w element. Off the top I have a: 12 inch column of 2 inch I.D. copper pipe, a 2 inch t0 1/2 inch copper reducer, a 90 degree bend, a couple inches of 1/2 inch pipe, a 45 degree bend, then my liebig. The liebig has 31 inches of 1/2 inch pipe jacketed with 3/4 inch pipe. Rather the jacketed part is 31 inches, the entire condenser is a bit longer than that. The jacketed 1/2 inch pipe has some crimps ever 2 inches alternating at 90 degrees. I have cold water entering the bottom and hot water exiting the top. I ran some vinegar water through to clean it out and it seems to work really well. Towards the end though it started huffing. I was hoping against it but expecting it. I read many people stick copper mesh or scrubbies in the end of theirs to combat this. MY question is what end do you put the mesh in the entrance of the condenser (The top where I have hot water exiting), or the lower end where the good stuff comes out?
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Re: Liebig huffing question

Postby Saltbush Bill » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:03 pm

Ferthy wrote:Towards the end though it started huffing.

It wont huff as bad or maybe not at all once you run a wash instead of water through it.
Water vapour/ steam acts quite differently to Alcohol vapour .
Id run at least one wash before I started mucking around with modification to the condenser.
Adjusting water flow to the condenser so that the water going in the bottom is cold and the water leaving the still at the top is warm will help with huffing as well.
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Re: Liebig huffing question

Postby der wo » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:05 pm

I have done both successfully. Try first the downer end of the liebig. Because here you can always put it out or in during the run. If it doesn't help, try the other end next time.
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Re: Liebig huffing question

Postby StillerBoy » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:09 pm

The huffing you are getting is probably due to reducing from 2" to 1/2" in one step, plus from the reducer to the liebig is to long.. reducing to quickly create pressure build up combine with the long distance to the liebig will reduce the efficiency of the column..

I notice in the picture that the element connection is open.. how do you connect to the element when in operation..

Mars
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Re: Liebig huffing question

Postby Ferthy » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:55 pm

StillerBoy wrote:The huffing you are getting is probably due to reducing from 2" to 1/2" in one step, plus from the reducer to the liebig is to long.. reducing to quickly create pressure build up combine with the long distance to the liebig will reduce the efficiency of the column..

Mars


So your saying I should do some modifications. Also my element is in an inclosure that I connect with a triclamp to the ferrule.
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Re: Liebig huffing question

Postby StillerBoy » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:09 pm

Ferthy wrote:So your saying I should do some modifications.

I was just pointing out that the method used in the build was not the best.. it will work as setup, but as you have already pointed out you're having issues..

I would recommend that you do a few run as you presently have it setup, checking for efficient such the amount of power you can use in relations to the rate of take off, and then if are still having difficult with the setup, you may want to made the modifications then.. making the modification now will not teach you anything.. but rest assured that there will be a big improvement in efficience..

Mars
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Re: Liebig huffing question

Postby ShineRunner » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:39 pm

I started with a very similar setup. My current rig isn't much different. It will work. It will behave very differently with alcohol in it VS pure water. You could try the scrubby in there, but maybe wait until you see how it works with alcohol first.

When you say huffing, is it uncondensed vapor? Or little "puffs" of light mist coming out the end? Feel along your Liebig and see where it gets hot. It should get hot somewhere in the middle and have a gradient from cold to hot. Your output water should be hot and steamy. If it's not any of those things, you may likely overreact and add more cold water, which exacerbates the problem.

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Re: Liebig huffing question

Postby Ferthy » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:04 pm

StillerBoy wrote:
Ferthy wrote:So your saying I should do some modifications.

I was just pointing out that the method used in the build was not the best.. it will work as setup, but as you have already pointed out you're having issues..

I would recommend that you do a few run as you presently have it setup, checking for efficient such the amount of power you can use in relations to the rate of take off, and then if are still having difficult with the setup, you may want to made the modifications then.. making the modification now will not teach you anything.. but rest assured that there will be a big improvement in efficience..

Mars


Okay. If I do have to make modifications what would you recommend? Would just shortening the column work. Or taking apart everything and gradually bring the column width down say 2 inches to 1 to 1/2.
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Re: Liebig huffing question

Postby thecroweater » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:43 pm

no that will do jack shit, huffing is not a big deal but the ways to limit it are to make sure your cooling intake is furthest from the lynne arm and cooling output the closest. If you want to loosely fit an bit of scrubby in it it goes in the dick spout, that is to say at the output end. What is happening is you are getting a crash in pressure from a sudden shock collapse and condensation of vapor causing a momentary vacuum. It not huge deal, could be you have ya cooling feed the wrong way or too much coolant, too cold who knows but a bit of scrubby does help and helps direct the flow if ya have it hanging out a bit
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Re: Liebig huffing question

Postby Saltbush Bill » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:03 pm

My personal opinion is that there is nothing wrong with the way your still is built ..it should need no modification.
Edit: posted at the same time as Crow.
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Re: Liebig huffing question

Postby GrassHopper » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:48 pm

Many of us have had this issue on our first runs with the liebig. I believe Crow and the others are correct, that it is most likely due to a vapor collapse causing the huffing. As stated, it may or may not occur during a ferment run.
The solution is to slow the vapor speed down by putting something in the output tube. For me it was simply wrapping a #10 copper wire around an arrow shaft to create a loose spiral and then shoving it
up the output tube to occupy about 2/3 of it's length. Works like a charm at any heat output and any water temps.....even ice cold with no huffing.
Yes, you could also gain some control by reducing the heat or changing the water flow.....but, wouldn't it be better to be able to strip full blast without having to worry about water flow or heat input.
Just my 2 cents.

carry on
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Re: Liebig huffing question

Postby Ferthy » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:12 pm

So it sounds like first and foremost I need to run some uncle Jessie's through that I have fermenting. Do that a few times. Get some experience with my rig. Try and find a balance between heat input and cooling from the water in the condenser. Have some copper mesh in stand by incase I need it. And go from there.
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Re: Liebig huffing question

Postby ShineRunner » Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:00 pm

Sure, sounds like what I would do. Are you using UJ as your sacrificial alcohol run? That will teach you a lot as well.

I echo grasshopper in that it's all a balance. There's no way you're overpowering your Liebig with 1500w when I have 5500 pumping through my similar setup. Yes, the vapor speeds up through it, but I'm guessing you're going to be fine once you balance your water. You should be able to pump full power without any issue other than regulating your water.

What are you using to regulate your cooling water flow?

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Re: Liebig huffing question

Postby Ferthy » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:21 pm

Shinerunner Yes I'm using uncle jesses for my sacrificial run. I figured corn is cheap and sugar is almost as cheap so I might as well make it and see how it really runs. I have my condenser hooked up to my washing machine valve. I felt when I ran it on that the first time I could control it well. I can get it on full boar and all the way down to a heavy drip less than a pencil lead stream. But I might add a valve to the Liebig down the line for convenience and added control.
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Re: Liebig huffing question

Postby Truckinbutch » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:27 pm

Ferthy wrote:So it sounds like first and foremost I need to run some uncle Jessie's through that I have fermenting. Do that a few times. Get some experience with my rig. Try and find a balance between heat input and cooling from the water in the condenser. Have some copper mesh in stand by incase I need it. And go from there.

You nailed it . Practice until you figure out how to drive what you have . Then you can decjde whether or not you need to do some mods .
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Re: Liebig huffing question

Postby Ferthy » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:32 pm

Well I just finished my first stripping run. Well not really a legitimate stripping run. Just running some uncle jesses through to condidtion everything and clean the little bit of dirties left. No huffing the entire time. On a 4 gallon batch I collected down to 20% abv and got a solid gallon. I think I might take what I got and dilute it back to about 10% abv and run it through tomorrow or the next day. Then hopefully this weekend I will do my first official stripping run to collect stuff I can actually drink once I get enough to do a spirit run.
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Re: Liebig huffing question

Postby Saltbush Bill » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:59 pm

All that fuss about nothing...see it worked fine :thumbup: :thumbup:
Good thing you didn't start hacking your still up and modifying it.
Most distilling problems end up haveing easy fixs in the end, you should always look for the easy answers first, before looking at the complex ones that some seem to love to come up with.
Last edited by Saltbush Bill on Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Liebig huffing question

Postby Ferthy » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:13 pm

Yeah though after my first run I could see how a shorter column would allow things to start dripping faster. Though I was surprised to see the overall abv of what I collected to be at 65% we will see how she handles with the spirit run.
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Re: Liebig huffing question

Postby Saltbush Bill » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:25 pm

Ferthy wrote:Though I was surprised to see the overall abv of what I collected to be at 65%

Probably because it was a cleaning run and you didn't go a long way into tails.
AN average stripping run should give an over all between 30% -45%....depending how far you go.
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Re: Liebig huffing question

Postby 700G » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:51 pm

One of mine used to huff a little, it was an easy fix:

huf.jpg
stillin' when I shoulda been buyin'
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Re: Liebig huffing question

Postby thecroweater » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:44 pm

Ferthy wrote:Yeah though after my first run I could see how a shorter column would allow things to start dripping faster. Though I was surprised to see the overall abv of what I collected to be at 65% we will see how she handles with the spirit run.

No shortening the column would have made the column shorter and nothing else, might have dropped ya abv a little and spread ya cuts out slightly more but as far as speed, huffing etc it would have accomplished jack shit.
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Re: Liebig huffing question

Postby The Baker » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:40 am

700G wrote:One of mine used to huff a little, it was an easy fix:

huf.jpg



Looks a bit pornographic....
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