Oooops...Need Advice Operating My 3" Copper Dephlegmator
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- Saltbush Bill
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Re: Oooops...Need Advice Operating My 3" Copper Dephlegmator
Loose the 2 inch I reckon...make the main column at least the same diameter as the Defleg.......issues solved.
- Rain Distillate
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Re: Oooops...Need Advice Operating My 3" Copper Dephlegmator
shadylane wrote:Is the abv dropping because the run is into the tails?rain distillate wrote:However I do have a couple more questions.
As abv drops while running in reflux, how do I get the abv to climb back up? Increase heat and increase dephlegmator water flow?
I believe so so I try and combat it with the dephleg and burner temp to increase abv and prolong tails. But when I do this it floods.
Or is there still lots of alcohol in the boiler?
to collect down to 20% (looks/tastes very oily by 60%abv) would increase my run time at least 1-2 hrs. Plus I don't own enough collection vessels due to aging likker atm.
Run it slow, and divide the distillate into every jar you ownrain distillate wrote:Any tricks to avoid smearing cuts with a reflux rig?
Thanks
Basically what I do. Since I haven't developed the patience for low wine/spirit runs my slow single runs usually take 6-8 hrs...can't really run it much slower than that. I meant more like, can I smear a cut by changing the amount of reflux drastically or something like that I guess.
I'm usually still well above 60-65 abv before i separate start of tails from hearts. what abv do you guys start to see/taste tails come in? I usually close down shop when the thermometer on the dephlag reads 200 degrees (F). That way I know I'm about to be boiling mostly water.
Last edited by Rain Distillate on Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Rain Distillate
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Re: Oooops...Need Advice Operating My 3" Copper Dephlegmator
Saltbush Bill wrote:Loose the 2 inch I reckon...make the main column at least the same diameter as the Defleg.......issues solved.
Can't loose the 2" completely because I'm using a keg.
Just bought this 3"x2" to get rid of the bottle neck.
Could put this at the base of the keg with the retainer right there and go 3" all the way up to dephlag.
- Rain Distillate
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Re: Oooops...Need Advice Operating My 3" Copper Dephlegmator
MichiganCornhusker wrote:Gotta lose that screen asap. Might as well be a solid plate when puke comes a callin.Hound Dog wrote:You are measuring the part holding up your packing in microns and still wondering why your column is flooding.
Or even if not clogged, like Hound Dog says, it's just a sieve plate with no downcommer.
Nothing measured in microns should be in the vapor path.
Understood
- Rain Distillate
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Re: Oooops...Need Advice Operating My 3" Copper Dephlegmator
Did you fab this or buy this?Hound Dog wrote:You are measuring the part holding up your packing in microns and still wondering why your column is flooding. You know a sieve plate on a column has hundreds of 1/16" holes and it holds a liquid bath with no packing dumping on it. I wonder how that compares to your lower micron screen. Try something more traditional and your problem might go away.rain distillate wrote: I replaced it with a lower micron screen.
Courtesy of Bearriver. ..
- FreeMountainHermit
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Re: Oooops...Need Advice Operating My 3" Copper Dephlegmator
I recently drilled my packed section copper at the base and installed 6 stainless screws in a circular pattern to hold up my packing. Pretty darn stout and virtually zero obstruction to the vapor path.
Blah, blah, blah,........
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Re: Oooops...Need Advice Operating My 3" Copper Dephlegmator
That is a picture from another member but he made it. You see you need a disk the size of your pipe ID. Drill as many holes in it as you can fit then file two sides down so you can turn it sideways, insert it past your ferrule then lay it flat on the ferrule to hold it in.rain distillate wrote:Did you fab this or buy this?Hound Dog wrote:You are measuring the part holding up your packing in microns and still wondering why your column is flooding. You know a sieve plate on a column has hundreds of 1/16" holes and it holds a liquid bath with no packing dumping on it. I wonder how that compares to your lower micron screen. Try something more traditional and your problem might go away.rain distillate wrote: I replaced it with a lower micron screen.
Courtesy of Bearriver. ..
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- Kegg_jam
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Re: Oooops...Need Advice Operating My 3" Copper Dephlegmator
Here's some other idea's
http://ww.homedistiller.org/forum/viewt ... =2&t=50707" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://ww.homedistiller.org/forum/viewt ... =2&t=50707" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
- cranky
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Re: Oooops...Need Advice Operating My 3" Copper Dephlegmator
Just to help in understanding, my packing retainer is a lot like Bears ( the one Hound Dog pictured) I drilled as many .22 diam holes using a #2 drillbit as I could fit in it. When I did a cleaning run on my column with no packing, just the retainer, I was able to hold 3 inches of liquid on top of that retainer even with all those holes. The bigger the holes in your retainer the better. I also agree with the others who say get everything the same diameter if you can. Pack the entire column not just part of it and you won't have to spend so much time running it. Mine is 3.5" I.D. and I only run low wines through it. I can easily run 13 gallons of 40% low wines in under 7 hours including restabilization time, Last time I ran it I got almost a years worth of vodka in a single day. You are spending that much time on just one single pass.
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Re: Oooops...Need Advice Operating My 3" Copper Dephlegmator
What Cranky just pointed out is impressive. I know I tried a SS floor drain cover once and it flooded. I just have a grid made from soldering 2 Guage wire criss cross. It is only three in each direction so it is quite open. Just big enough so large lava rocks don't fit through then smaller ones on top of them.
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- Rain Distillate
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Re: Oooops...Need Advice Operating My 3" Copper Dephlegmator
I had a 40 micron s.s gasket that I cut bigger holes out of last night. I will post results when I run next.
- Rain Distillate
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Re: Oooops...Need Advice Operating My 3" Copper Dephlegmator
first run with the new screen setup and didn't have a single flood out the product end. (i did have a bucket this time on stand by though) seemed it was making it back to the boiler at a fast enough rate. I'll try to post a pic of what it looks like now. I have 10 gallons left of a corn flake wash that needs to run (been clearing a week in the garage)
Got rid of the 1 1/2" section (finally) so now its just goes from 2 to 3". Does the packing need to be right up to the dephleg condenser? I read on the parent site (I believe) that with my rings and column size I need 9" of packing?
Does too much or not enough affect greatly?
I think i read not enough packing causes longer run times.
Rain
Got rid of the 1 1/2" section (finally) so now its just goes from 2 to 3". Does the packing need to be right up to the dephleg condenser? I read on the parent site (I believe) that with my rings and column size I need 9" of packing?
Does too much or not enough affect greatly?
I think i read not enough packing causes longer run times.
Rain
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Re: Oooops...Need Advice Operating My 3" Copper Dephlegmator
Got results from the other half of the corn flake wash I had clearing. Will post results and pics of new setup tonight or tomorrow, once I can shrink photo to acceptable size. Can anyone answer my previous question?
Thanks
Rain
Thanks
Rain
- cranky
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Re: Oooops...Need Advice Operating My 3" Copper Dephlegmator
I leave space between my packing and condenser because when you run hard the liquid can sort of pool on top of the packing before it can work it's way back down into the packing.
- Rain Distillate
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Re: Oooops...Need Advice Operating My 3" Copper Dephlegmator
Just reread about column water coolant temperatures. Seems too cold of water can cause the surge issues I'm experiencing. Everyone's 2 Cents is appreciated.
Rain
Rain
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Re: Oooops...Need Advice Operating My 3" Copper Dephlegmator
Mine doesn't have that problem even when the water is 40 F. That's not to say it couldn't happen but once mine is dialed in it doesn't surge regardless of the temperature of the cooling water going in, it's plenty hot coming out.rain distillate wrote:Just reread about column water coolant temperatures. Seems too cold of water can cause the surge issues I'm experiencing. Everyone's 2 Cents is appreciated.
Rain
Re: Oooops...Need Advice Operating My 3" Copper Dephlegmator
This can be a problem if there is a sudden vapor collapse all the way back to the boiler, or at least in a major portion of the structured packing in a reflux column...rain distillate wrote:Just reread about column water coolant temperatures. Seems too cold of water can cause the surge issues I'm experiencing. Everyone's 2 Cents is appreciated.
Rain
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Re: Oooops...Need Advice Operating My 3" Copper Dephlegmator
What causes the vapor to collapse? Maybe this is why I flood? With the sight glass I can see whats going on inside the column now. When I see the sight glass full at a rolling boil it worries me that I'm gonna surge out the end. I usually drop the heat once that occurs (mainly due to paranoia) but it could because I''m tired of cleaning up hot likker all over the garage haha. Not to mention it fills my jar of good likker that was under the product condenser with that hot crap.rad14701 wrote:This can be a problem if there is a sudden vapor collapse all the way back to the boiler, or at least in a major portion of the structured packing in a reflux column...rain distillate wrote:Just reread about column water coolant temperatures. Seems too cold of water can cause the surge issues I'm experiencing. Everyone's 2 Cents is appreciated.
Rain
Re: Oooops...Need Advice Operating My 3" Copper Dephlegmator
We've had this discussion but rather than hunt the topics down I'll explain - again... When you run a condenser too cold, such as a liebig with excessively cold coolant flow, the vapor can collapse prematurely rather than gradually cooling and condensing onto the walls of the condenser... As the condenser cools excessively it can actually suck ambient air up into the condenser and beyond, all the way to the boiler, being further cooled by the condenser along the way... Now, even though the boiler is still producing vapor the sudden rush of cool air can knock down the vapor being produced in the boiler... This is where the huffing and surging comes from as the vapor collapses and subsequently marginally recovers so that there is distillate output... It is for this very reason that having a temperature gradient within the condenser is a desirable trait... The gradient can also have a desirable benefit of somewhat smoother spirits because on the flip side too cold of a condenser can prematurely suck smeared vapor out of the boiler that might otherwise be retained due to static/parasitic reflux within the boiler... So a super-cooled condenser can cause ill effects in either direction...rain distillate wrote:What causes the vapor to collapse? Maybe this is why I flood? With the sight glass I can see whats going on inside the column now. When I see the sight glass full at a rolling boil it worries me that I'm gonna surge out the end. I usually drop the heat once that occurs (mainly due to paranoia) but it could because I''m tired of cleaning up hot likker all over the garage haha. Not to mention it fills my jar of good likker that was under the product condenser with that hot crap.rad14701 wrote:This can be a problem if there is a sudden vapor collapse all the way back to the boiler, or at least in a major portion of the structured packing in a reflux column...rain distillate wrote:Just reread about column water coolant temperatures. Seems too cold of water can cause the surge issues I'm experiencing. Everyone's 2 Cents is appreciated.
Rain
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Re: Oooops...Need Advice Operating My 3" Copper Dephlegmator
Thank you Rad and Understood!! Maybe switching to reservoirs, pumps and a submersible heater on standby is the way to go. (Especially this time of year. below zero right now, -26 with windchill) Then all I have to do is make sure it don't get too hot opposed to wasting all that water i'm running off during runs with the liebig and dephlegmator going.rad14701 wrote:We've had this discussion but rather than hunt the topics down I'll explain - again... When you run a condenser too cold, such as a liebig with excessively cold coolant flow, the vapor can collapse prematurely rather than gradually cooling and condensing onto the walls of the condenser... As the condenser cools excessively it can actually suck ambient air up into the condenser and beyond, all the way to the boiler, being further cooled by the condenser along the way... Now, even though the boiler is still producing vapor the sudden rush of cool air can knock down the vapor being produced in the boiler... This is where the huffing and surging comes from as the vapor collapses and subsequently marginally recovers so that there is distillate output... It is for this very reason that having a temperature gradient within the condenser is a desirable trait... The gradient can also have a desirable benefit of somewhat smoother spirits because on the flip side too cold of a condenser can prematurely suck smeared vapor out of the boiler that might otherwise be retained due to static/parasitic reflux within the boiler... So a super-cooled condenser can cause ill effects in either direction...rain distillate wrote:What causes the vapor to collapse? Maybe this is why I flood? With the sight glass I can see whats going on inside the column now. When I see the sight glass full at a rolling boil it worries me that I'm gonna surge out the end. I usually drop the heat once that occurs (mainly due to paranoia) but it could because I''m tired of cleaning up hot likker all over the garage haha. Not to mention it fills my jar of good likker that was under the product condenser with that hot crap.rad14701 wrote:This can be a problem if there is a sudden vapor collapse all the way back to the boiler, or at least in a major portion of the structured packing in a reflux column...rain distillate wrote:Just reread about column water coolant temperatures. Seems too cold of water can cause the surge issues I'm experiencing. Everyone's 2 Cents is appreciated.
Rain
I have the reservoirs to hold the water, i guess i still need to invest in a pump and some fittings, to pump water to both the liebig and the dephleg.
Re: Oooops...Need Advice Operating My 3" Copper Dephlegmator
Exactly what cranky does. I only dephlag on a neutral you can push it harder, just be cautious and don't flood your column
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Re: Oooops...Need Advice Operating My 3" Copper Dephlegmator
H
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Re: Oooops...Need Advice Operating My 3" Copper Dephlegmator
If you run an inline parrot that's not properly vented, you'll see some huffing and puffing.
A handful of patience is worth more than a bushel of brains