Liebig pipe size

[nelsongg]

I picked up a good amount of copper pipe fairly cheap from Craigslist. The sizes are 1.25in, 1in, .75in, .5in, and some 3/8 or ¼.
I want to make a liebig for a full keg still with a full keg thumper. I have read on other posts that the more surface area a liebig has, the better it will cool the vapor, and therefore the shorter I can make it, I think? Then I also start thinking that it will weigh too much when filled with water hanging off the side of the thumper. So can someone advise me as to how long and to what diameters of pipe to use.
Thanks, Greg

[Lyonsie]

3/4 over 1/2 is the easiest where i am fitting wise. 40" knocks down 5500w no problems at all.

[Bushman]

3/4 over 1/2 is the easiest where i am fitting wise. 40" knocks down 5500w no problems at all.

This is probably the most common size with Liebig at least 36" long. At what angle do you pan on building it or will it be vertical? Also if you strip some electrical wire and spot solder on the outside of the 1/2" inner pipe rotating around at a 30 degree angle it will increase turbulence with the cooling water which should improve efficiency.

[Lyonsie]

Mine is redundant but it served me well.

[Truckinbutch]

3/4 over 1/2 is the easiest where i am fitting wise. 40" knocks down 5500w no problems at all.

Use one similar with great results .

[nelsongg]

So what everyone is saying is that there is no improvement to making a liebig with larger pipe. That the larger surface area would be of no advantage. Lyonsie asked about what angle I was going to build it, and I never really thought about it being built at an angle until I realized (I think) what he was asking is what angle I would mount it. I suppose the angle will be whatever seems to work best.

Greg

[Bushman]

So what everyone is saying is that there is no improvement to making a liebig with larger pipe. That the larger surface area would be of no advantage. Lyonsie asked about what angle I was going to build it, and I never really thought about it being built at an angle until I realized (I think) what he was asking is what angle I would mount it. I suppose the angle will be whatever seems to work best.

Greg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I asked about the angle. Mine was vertical with a 45 angle at the bottom. If you are running propane you want the alcohol collection away from the flame. Also at an angle it slows down the flow giving it more contact with the cooling surface.

[nelsongg]

Mine would come off of the thumper at approx. 45 degree angle. What I was really trying to find out is if I used larger diameter pipe, could the liebig be made shorter?

[StillerBoy]

Here are some threads on liebig..

https://www.google.ca/search?rls=en-us& ... big+design&*" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Here a thread to a more efficient design of liebig therefore could be made shorter..

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 87&t=44116

Mars

[Yummyrum]

What I was really trying to find out is if I used larger diameter pipe, could the liebig be made shorter?

I'd say no ....not really ,You are splitting hairs .
Sure the bigger the diameter of the inner pipe , the more cooling surface area, that's fine near the surface of the inner pipe but what about the vapor travelling down the middle .
Then there is smaller bore , higher vapor speed , larger bore , lower vapor speed . Its quite a complex thing and if you are trying to narrow it down to a particular size verses power /then good luck to you
I always add tweaks to my liebigs like adding spiral wire to the coolant jacket to increase water flow length and denting the inner pipe to create more turbulence in the vapor flow but it is nothing more than tweaks .How much actual difference it makes

In reality , there are way more dramatic variables ...like how hard you run your gas , or what wash you are running or what your coolant water temp is or how much flow you have . These things will influence the effectiveness of your liebig much more than the diameter of the pipes you choose

If a short condenser is what you want then you should forget a liebig and look at a Shot gun style condenser .You can get the equivalent of a 2 meter long liebig for less than 1/4 that length ....but its a bit more work .
You are already away from the gas flame ( because of the thumper ) so length is not an issue

[Bushman]

I realize your question and answered it earlier just trying to make sure you are aware of some of the safety issues. There are also other types of product condensers that you can build that would allow more cooling surface area that would allow it to be shorter.
Edit: Posted at the same time as Yummyrum.

[nelsongg]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the input. I think in the short term I will be doing a 24" to 30" liebig with 3/4 over 1/2. After that, a shotgun looks like it could be fun.

Thanks,
Greg

[NZChris]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the input. I think in the short term I will be doing a 24" to 30" liebig with 3/4 over 1/2. After that, a shotgun looks like it could be fun.

Thanks,
Greg

It'll just be a short term PITA then.

[Lyonsie]

Shotguns are always fun

[Saltbush Bill]

Then I also start thinking that it will weigh too much when filled with water hanging off the side of the thumper.

There is an easy fix for that problem, you just need to make a prop to take the weight, something as simple as a small forked stick can work, or you can make it as fancy at you wish.

[Truckinbutch]

Then I also start thinking that it will weigh too much when filled with water hanging off the side of the thumper.

There is an easy fix for that problem, you just need to make a prop to take the weight, something as simple as a small forked stick can work, or you can make it as fancy at you wish.

I use support and recommend that others use support as well .

[nelsongg]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the input. I think in the short term I will be doing a 24" to 30" liebig with 3/4 over 1/2. After that, a shotgun looks like it could be fun.

Thanks,
Greg

It'll just be a short term PITA then.

NZChris: Why is doing the liebig a PITA? Is it too short? What am I missing here?

[NZChris]

Shorter than anyone recommended when you asked.

[nelsongg]

NZChris: Sorry for the confusion Chris. My plan is to use the calc on this site for the dimensions. The one I quoted earlier I just pulled from me bum.

Greg

[NZChris]

I have a shorty myself. It only gets used on my mini gin pot now.

[Alchemist75]

Having used lab equipment for so many years I can say that certain variables in condenser dimensions can definitely affect how efficient they are. Two fundamental types of straight tube and shell condensers exist:
-Liebig
-west
The difference between these two condensers is subtle but makes a world of difference. The distinction is the distance between the jacket inner wall and the vapor tube outer wall. Now the difference between a glass condenser and a copper one is huge but the same principals apply. West condensers work better than liebigs, end of story. The space between the jacket wall and vapor tube wall is very narrow in a West condenser as where a liebig has a pretty hefty cooling jacket with tons of space inside. A West condenser of 12" out performs a 18" liebig by a MILE. Now my understanding of why may need work but my theory is that when you have little space for the water to flow through there is no possibility of a "heat blanket" to form around the vapor tube. It address the issue of needing turbulence in the condenser simply by virtue of it's fundamental design. My current reflux condenser employs the west design concept with a 3/4" vapor tube running through a 1" jacket. There's just enough space in the thing for the water to move through it and it does so very quickly. It's not quite 5" long and employs the "cold tip" design found here:

http://www.artisan-distiller.net/phpBB3 ... ser#p15547" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
It has no trouble knocking down vapors with minimal water flow. No need to wrap a wire around the vapor tube with such a design. A lot of the "liebig" condensers I see being used by folks on this site are actually West types. Just my observation here. Take it or leave it.

[jonnys_spirit]

I did a 3/4 over 1/2 @ 40 with the romex ground wire twisted and tack soldered around the 1/2. This was very easy to diy and cheap. The valve on the hot water output is pretty tight with low water flow when knocking down 5500W. Feels like lotsa headroom and i can get a good consistent temp gradient from cool product end tip to hot vapor end with minimal water flow. Just opening the water valve a touch and the whole thing cools quickly.

The 1/2 inch is the limiting factor in how fast you can run. Pot still column is 3” but the 1/2 liebig means vapor speed increases.
Area of 1/2 is 0.79
Area of 3.0 is 28+

Maybe it is closer to a west especially with the romex gnd wire wrapped and tacked. It was tight getting into the 3/4 but not an issue in the least.

Good luck!
-jonny

[Alchemist75]

I think that's about as tight as it realistically gets with copper. My PC uses 1/2" and I can run her hard but then I'll typically open up the reflux valve just a smidge to act as a precondenser/vapor break. Cheating a bit....