Shotgun Question

Anything cooling/condenser related.

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olecajun
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Shotgun Question

Post by olecajun »

Ok I decided ( badmotivator suggested ) not to build my shotgun with any copper in it as it being at the end of the run. I had most of what I needed already in the shop to build it from s.s. My question is, once the tubes are tigged to the end plate, when it is slid into the 2 1/2" tube do I keep it close to flush or recess it inside some or does it matter ? The vapor tubes are 16" long 1/2" tubes . I will probably research baffles and maybe figure something with them.I am going to weld tri clamp ferrules to both ends for cleaning purpose. Heres a couple of pics of the parts not yet welded. Opinion if I need to do anything different ? Thanks in advance for your input.
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Re: Shotgun Question

Post by still_stirrin »

olecajun wrote:...do I keep it close to flush or recess it inside some or does it matter ?
I don't think it matters, from an operational perspective. Is it easier to weld one way or the other?
olecajun wrote:I will probably research baffles and maybe figure something with them....Opinion if I need to do anything different ?
Baffles really improve efficiency. Add them if you can, especially since the thermal conductivity of stainless steel is so much less than copper (which is what I would use for the vapor tubes preferably).
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Re: Shotgun Question

Post by olecajun »

What maybe a half plate 6" down and then half plate opposite side 6" below that ? Is that sorta the way to do a baffle ? I haven't really researched them yet, but in all my readings I think they look like a half of end plate staggered.
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Re: Shotgun Question

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olecajun wrote:What maybe a half plate 6" down and then half plate opposite side 6" below that ? Is that sorta the way to do a baffle ?
Yep. I have 3 baffles in both of my shotguns. I set up the coolant flow in a spiral, so the baffles are rotated 120 degrees from each other equally spaced in the tube bank. My baffles are more like 3/4 the size of a full end plate though, rather than 1/2. But...the shotgun is copper. So, it will knock down just about anything I throw at it with a very low coolant flowrate.
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Re: Shotgun Question

Post by olecajun »

I can do that. You think 3, 3/4 blocking staggered in the 16" would be good ? Or because of s.s. add another one ?
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Re: Shotgun Question

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olecajun wrote:I can do that. You think 3, 3/4 blocking staggered in the 16" would be good ? Or because of s.s. add another one ?
I think you'll be OK with 3 baffles. The key point is to get the water moving around the whole tube bank rather than channelling straight from inlet to outlet. With stainless vapor tubes you may need a higher coolant flowrate than you would if the bank were copper. But improving the coolant movement throughout the shell will definitely improve performance over a tube bank without baffles.

Also, I put the water outlet on the opposite side of the shell from the inlet, again causing positive movement of the water flow around (and through) the tube bank.

There is another thread about a shotgun build (sergiolis's thread) where he did not add baffles and he put the outlet in line with the inlet and the water flow channeled between the inlet and outlet. The performance results were that it would only dissipate 1/3 to 1/2 the power the condenser should be capable of.

Bottomline....when you're designing and building a shotgun be sure to include the features which maximize heat transfer performance. You'll be glad you did. The result is high efficiency such very little water flow is needed to manage your heat input, even at stripping run power.
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Re: Shotgun Question

Post by olecajun »

Thanks again my friend. I got some baffles done. What a PITA . Their done so now its time to start sewing it together. Will update if there is something to update about. LOL
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Re: Shotgun Question

Post by olecajun »

Here is where I am. Now I gotta try to find some 2 1/2" tri clamp ferrules. Heres the pics
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Re: Shotgun Question

Post by olecajun »

I gotta question. Here is a couple of pics of some parts I have. I have some 2" tri clamp ferrules, I built some s.s. bushings from sch.40 pipe. I can tig all this together and still be able to clean the vapor tubes. Should I do this or just locate some 2 1/2" ferrules ? I have like a half dozen 2". See pics please. Thanks for input.
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Re: Shotgun Question

Post by Badmotivator »

Nice work, olecajun. I think the bushing thing will work fine, and you'll be happy to have a common triclamp size instead of some funky-ass 2 1/2". Do they even have that?

For what it's worth, I never have to clean my tubes. The tiny amount of tails in them after a run is cleaned out instantly by the first vapor of the next run.
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Re: Shotgun Question

Post by Badmotivator »

Oh, I forgot to answer your question about the ends of the tubes. On at least the top end, you want to avoid a situation where the tube ends act like little dams, making a puddle up there. Might as well grind both ends flush with the end plate, so you don't have to think about which end is up.
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Re: Shotgun Question

Post by olecajun »

Thanks for the input. Saves me $$$$. You think just 1/2" s.s. ball valves should be plenty ?
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Re: Shotgun Question

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olecajun wrote:Thanks for the input. Saves me $$$$. You think just 1/2" s.s. ball valves should be plenty ?
I use a needle valve to get finer control over the small flow range in my condenser. A long and efficient condenser uses little water if you have a constant cold source.
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Re: Shotgun Question

Post by Bushman »

olecajun wrote:Thanks for the input. Saves me $$$$. You think just 1/2" s.s. ball valves should be plenty ?
I use a ball valve the thing is when you make an adjustment in flow you tweek it just a little and wait several minutes for it to adjust as it is easier to go to far. Just takes time to understand how your rig reacts.
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Re: Shotgun Question

Post by olecajun »

I Googled it and understand what they are. I think that is the way I am going with the needle valve.

I do have a question. Is the GOAL to have Cold water discharge, Warm water discharge or Hotter than luke warm ?
I could probably go back and find something about it but thought I would ask. Thanks
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Re: Shotgun Question

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olecajun wrote:...Is the GOAL to have Cold water discharge, Warm water discharge or Hotter than luke warm ?
Most work best (most efficient) if the water discharge temperature is slightly less than the vapor inlet temperature, while the condensate discharge temperature is close to the water inlet temperature. In layman's terms...slow the water flow to the point where it's warm to the touch. I think 120-140*F is very good. But if you're puffing out vapor, then you need more water...or less heat.

Fiddle with it...and find the "happy place".
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Re: Shotgun Question

Post by still_stirrin »

Oh, and if you hadn't realized this yet, shotguns are best if vertical. It keeps the vapor flow balanced between all the tubes, thereby distributing the heat load throughout the tube bank.
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p.s.-what Bushman pointed out is good advice too. Balls valves are fine (I use them too). Just remember that the heat transfer is "reactive", in that temperatures change in response to the change in heat transfered. It takes a few minutes for it all to stabilize again from an adjustment in coolant flowrate.
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Re: Shotgun Question

Post by StillerBoy »

Needle valve is preferable to a gate value which will allow your to dial the water temp to the degree wanted within seconds.. on the PC shotgun used I dial the flow rate to give me an outlet water temp of about 95 - 100F, which for me is about 1/2 liter flow per minute for the power usage of the run.. this is also balance with the power use, higher power used, more water flow rate required..

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Re: Shotgun Question

Post by Badmotivator »

StillerBoy wrote:1/2 liter flow per second
Might wanna check those units, unless I'm wrong and you really do use a firehose. :)
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Re: Shotgun Question

Post by olecajun »

Does anybody use like a copper ribbon inside the s.s. tubes ? Is it needed or does it increase condensing ?
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Re: Shotgun Question

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olecajun wrote:Does anybody use like a copper ribbon inside the s.s. tubes ? Is it needed or does it increase condensing ?
It increases the surface area in contact with the vapor. For copper vapor tubes, the copper vanes help conduct heat into the water jacket. With your stainless tubes, copper vanes won't be as effective because of the differences in heat conducting coefficients of stainless steel and copper. The copper vanes would pull the heat just fine but it won't conduct it fast enough to and through the stainless.

So, I recommend omitting the copper vanes in your vapor tubes.
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Re: Shotgun Question

Post by olecajun »

Thanks, no vanes.Once I finish the ends I will post. Thanks for input everybody.
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Re: Shotgun Question

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Badmotivator wrote:Might wanna check those units, unless I'm wrong and you really do use a firehose
Thanks Badmotivator.. corrected the error to read minute.. read it twice and still missed it..

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Re: Shotgun Question

Post by nzdistiller »

Love to hear about your knockdown capacity with thisa puppy :eugeek:
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Re: Shotgun Question

Post by olecajun »

Has not been run. But here is the progress.
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