Solder/flaring/ dimpling on a keg

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Ferthy
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Solder/flaring/ dimpling on a keg

Post by Ferthy »

I don't know what board to put this in exactly. Since it is inregards to construction on my boiler I thought I would do it here. I have a 5 gallon keg that I will be making into a simple pot still. Originally I was going to purchase a 1.5 inch tc ferrule with a radiused face that fits snugly on to a keg or pot for soldering. I would use this for adding a heat element to my keg. But after contacting the seller and Brewhardware.com my keg diameter might be a bit to small for it do fit properly.

Still wanting to solder a tc ferrule for my heat element I'm back to the drawing board trying to figure out a solution.i understand that dimpling or flaring a precut hole is needed to build up a good shoulder of solder around the ferrule. This can be difficult without good access to the inside of the keg. I have seen people make diy dimpling tools with pipe reducing fittings, some washers , nuts, and a bolt. But again I can't fit my large hands into the 2 inch tc ferrule at the top of the keg and down to the bottom.

My question is this if I were to drill a 1 3/8 inch hole for a 1.5 inch tc ferrule. Then take a 1 inch to 1.5 inch pipe reducer fitting. Place the one inch part in the hole from the outside and hit it with a heavy rubber or metal mallet in a controlled way would this flare the hole well enough? The dimple obviously would go into the keg as opposed to flaring out but would that be a problem? Thought suggestions.
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Truckinbutch
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Re: Solder/flaring/ dimpling on a keg

Post by Truckinbutch »

If you are talking about hammering on a ss reducer I think your concept would work . I've form fitted many joints .
Soldering stainless is a tricky deal unless you are using silver solder .
If at all possible I would find a welder that could hole saw a ferrule fit and TIG weld the joint .
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Re: Solder/flaring/ dimpling on a keg

Post by Ferthy »

I was planning on using Harris stay brite 8 and flux.
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Truckinbutch
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Re: Solder/flaring/ dimpling on a keg

Post by Truckinbutch »

Ferthy wrote:I was planning on using Harris stay brite 8 and flux.
Yep , good product . Still a dicey deal . Just had a ss-copper joint fail using the same products . It was a gradual deal that took months to surface where I could detect it .Every time it sat idle and corroded the leak got bigger . Some hard running dissolved the corrosion and suddenly I had a full blown leak .
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Re: Solder/flaring/ dimpling on a keg

Post by Snackson »

I've dimple soldered about 2 dozen fittings and haven't had any fail. Very easy to do. I am assuming you are looking st the Brew Hardware stuff. If so, Bobby runs a good company and his videos are good as well.
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Re: Solder/flaring/ dimpling on a keg

Post by Ferthy »

Snackson yes I was referring to brewhardware.com's stuff. I was going to get an element off of there as well as an enclosure kit. They have one with a regular 1.5 stainless tc ferrule that could be welded. My plan was to solder it to my keg.
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Re: Solder/flaring/ dimpling on a keg

Post by StillerBoy »

Ferthy wrote:My question is this if I were to drill a 1 3/8 inch hole for a 1.5 inch tc ferrule. Then take a 1 inch to 1.5 inch pipe reducer fitting. Place the one inch part in the hole from the outside and hit it with a heavy rubber or metal mallet in a controlled way would this flare the hole well enough? The dimple obviously would go into the keg as opposed to flaring out but would that be a problem? Thought suggestions.
It will probably work using the pipe reducer.. the key thing here is to make sure your is perfectly round, and being at the bottom of the keg, the bottom side will somewhat solid, whereas the top will be bouncy and that's the area that will give you problems being careful not to kink it.. I would suggest just making the hole a very tight fit, and make 2 solder ring placed on the ferrule part, prepare the 2 surfaces very good, and apply heat to both equally and not to the solder allowing the solder to slowly melt, also applying extra liquid flux as you heat up.. and work in well ventilated area..

Mars
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Re: Solder/flaring/ dimpling on a keg

Post by Ferthy »

StillerBoy wrote:
Ferthy wrote:My question is this if I were to drill a 1 3/8 inch hole for a 1.5 inch tc ferrule. Then take a 1 inch to 1.5 inch pipe reducer fitting. Place the one inch part in the hole from the outside and hit it with a heavy rubber or metal mallet in a controlled way would this flare the hole well enough? The dimple obviously would go into the keg as opposed to flaring out but would that be a problem? Thought suggestions.
It will probably work using the pipe reducer.. the key thing here is to make sure your is perfectly round, and being at the bottom of the keg, the bottom side will somewhat solid, whereas the top will be bouncy and that's the area that will give you problems being careful not to kink it.. I would suggest just making the hole a very tight fit, and make 2 solder ring placed on the ferrule part, prepare the 2 surfaces very good, and apply heat to both equally and not to the solder allowing the solder to slowly melt, also applying extra liquid flux as you heat up.. and work in well ventilated area..

Mars
I do plan on going low with the hole. So hopefully it doesn't kink. And keep in mind I don't plan on going to town on it with a 20 pound sledge. Just finessing it with a hand mallet. There also might be the option of cutting 1 3/8 inch hole and using a dremel to shave that last 1/8 inch to fit the ferrule in. I just thought a dimple might hold the solder a bit better.
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StillerBoy
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Re: Solder/flaring/ dimpling on a keg

Post by StillerBoy »

Ferthy wrote:I do plan on going low with the hole. So hopefully it doesn't kink. And keep in mind I don't plan on going to town on it with a 20 pound sledge. Just finessing it with a hand mallet. There also might be the option of cutting 1 3/8 inch hole and using a dremel to shave that last 1/8 inch to fit the ferrule in. I just thought a dimple might hold the solder a bit better.
Stainless steel on a keg is quite rigid to dimple, requiring lot of torte to pull a mandrel through just to make a 1/16" dimple on a keg.. so trying to hammer something in, like I said earlier, it will want to bounce and kink..

Yes a small dimple will greatly improve on the strength of the joint.. but to dimple you have to have access to the inside of the keg, which you don't have.. the only other way would be to cut your hole, run a wire from the top opening to your hole, and slide your pipe reducer on it, and figure a way to pull it out, using or making a sort of puller somehow.. otherwise just solder it like I stated earlier..

Mars
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Re: Solder/flaring/ dimpling on a keg

Post by Ferthy »

Okay. I do have a 1 3/8 inch step bit. My plan is to use a compass and mark out a hole with an exact 1.5 inch radius. Drill a hole in center with the bit and use a dremel to evenly wear down that last little bit for a tight fit. Should I clean all the surfaces after I sand it down and be fore I flux with something like paint thinner or acetone to remove as much dirt and oil from the surface?
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Re: Solder/flaring/ dimpling on a keg

Post by StillerBoy »

Ferthy wrote:Should I clean all the surfaces after I sand it down and be fore I flux with something like paint thinner or acetone to remove as much dirt and oil from the surface?
Once you have the fit your ok with,just clean about 3 -4" around the hole area, sand both surface using medium grade emery paper, sanding only where required with would be about 1/4" around the hole area, and the same for the fitting where it will make contact, then using either laquor paint thinner or acetone to clean the surface well, since you will have used drilling oil during the process.. go slow with lots of pressure in drilling ss.. and do not allow the ss to be hot from drilling action, as the ss will harden on you.. then it will be lots of fun.. had that happen to me once, took over an hour to finally get the hole done, then it was a bitch to dimple.. just saying..

Mars
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Re: Solder/flaring/ dimpling on a keg

Post by Ferthy »

Well I thought I would make an update on my situation. I went ahead with soldering a 1.5 in triclamp ferrule in the bottom of my 5 gallon keg. I drilled a hole with a step bit that took a long time. Too long. In my efforts To be economical I thought a step bit and dremel would work just as well as a hole saw. They took for ever. Next time I will be buying a hole saw. But I got everything drilled and soldered. It holds water and looks good. Sadly I realized I never posted pictures on here with my phone. Thought I deactivated all the geotagging settings but it still lists my location so pictures are on hold till hopefully tomorrow. By that time I might have everything up and ready too. Thanks for all the help and advice.
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Re: Solder/flaring/ dimpling on a keg

Post by StillerBoy »

Ferthy wrote: But I got everything drilled and soldered. It holds water and looks good.
Super.. and you learn a lot.. :thumbup:
Ferthy wrote:I drilled a hole with a step bit that took a long time. Too long. In my efforts To be economical I thought a step bit and dremel would work just as well as a hole saw.
Did you pilot drill the hole first like 1/8 then 1/4 then step bit.. and you drilled to fast.. when drilling ss, one must drill at about the speed of 2 rotation per second, using drill oil and a very sharp bit or new bit (some new bits are useless even new ) on ss.. when drilling into something, we all have the tendence to drill at full power, not a good method.. hole saw are very hard to handle by hand for a good hole cut, unless in a drill press, and even then, unless they are high end one..

Mars
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Re: Solder/flaring/ dimpling on a keg

Post by Ferthy »

Yeah I did a pilot first. And use oil as well. The first inch only took about 10 minutes or so. It was the last half inches reall that was the pain in the butt part. Maybe in stead of a step bit or hole saw I will just use my 12 gauge shotgun.
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StillerBoy
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Re: Solder/flaring/ dimpling on a keg

Post by StillerBoy »

Ferthy wrote:Maybe in stead of a step bit or hole saw I will just use my 12 gauge shotgun.
That is one option.. LOL

But here is another option.. you can use an electrician knockout punch to make the hole, they come in many sizes, and make a clean hole, but one still has to drill a hole of 7/8 - 1" to use it.. drilling a 1" hole is not as difficult as drilling a hole over one inch..

Check with an electrician or ask around you maybe able to rent one.. drilling in ss one needs to go in steps all the way, removing small amounts at a time so as not to over heat the metal which will harden if over heated, and with ss it happen real fast..
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Re: Solder/flaring/ dimpling on a keg

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

While a step drill will work, you might try a carbide hole saw with the appropriate lube. Here is what I use for a 2" tri-clamp ferrule.

Hole saw - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0016J7KB6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow in the 1 7/8" version
Lube - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003OAF8CI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

You can use a handheld drill, just keep the speed low.

Also, while drilling, remove the hole saw and wipe off the chips every once in a while, and add a then little bit more of the lube. If you aren't generating chips, you are running the drill too fast.

Just remember to let the drill do the work. If you have the speed too fast and the feed too high, you will work harden the SS. i.e. go slow with a light pressure and plenty of lube and it will make a nice even hole.
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Re: Solder/flaring/ dimpling on a keg

Post by brewstillski »

Ferthy wrote: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:56 pm Well I thought I would make an update on my situation. I went ahead with soldering a 1.5 in triclamp ferrule in the bottom of my 5 gallon keg. I drilled a hole with a step bit that took a long time. Too long. In my efforts To be economical I thought a step bit and dremel would work just as well as a hole saw. They took for ever. Next time I will be buying a hole saw. But I got everything drilled and soldered. It holds water and looks good. Sadly I realized I never posted pictures on here with my phone. Thought I deactivated all the geotagging settings but it still lists my location so pictures are on hold till hopefully tomorrow. By that time I might have everything up and ready too. Thanks for all the help and advice.




Know this is old but wanted to ask, did you fit the ferrule into the hole to solder, or did you stop shy and solder the ferrule "flush" onto the keg?
Thanks.
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Re: Solder/flaring/ dimpling on a keg

Post by HomerD »

I always leave enough room to solder and easily use clamps on the outside. I also make sure everything is level. Here’s a good YouTube link on how I do mine.



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Re: Solder/flaring/ dimpling on a keg

Post by seabass »

I've had good luck with the brewers hardware solder fitting. I had to modify the radius on it to match my keg, but it worked great without any dimple. I just drilled the hole prepped the surface and soldered it on. Been working great for years.
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Re: Solder/flaring/ dimpling on a keg

Post by NineInchNails »

Soldering stainless isn't tricky at all as long as you follow the basic instructions.

1. Abrade both surfaces and clean both surfaces (most recommend acetone).
2. You can form a ring of solder and let it sit on the joint.
3. Pre-heat the surrounding surface well, working from the outside in.
4. Now start to heat the thicker fitting. Do not torch the solder directly. Don't be stingy with the flux.
5. Once the flux starts to bubble & smoke you know the solder is about to melt.
6. Once the solder melts check for spots that may need more. If a spot doesn't look good, hit it with a little heat and the solder should flow to the heat. A little flux helps too. If it needs more solder, just poke it with a little more.
7. Lastly once it's soldered ... DON'T fool with it. Just walk away for several minutes. Don't add water or a wet rag.

I soldered stainless weld spuds to the underside of my kegs yesterday for the first time. I fooled around, broke many of these rules and it worked out just fine. I used Stay Clean flux and silver solder. Soldered joints are real tough. I prefer tig welded joints, but the more fittings you solder, the less you'll have to take in to get welded.

What I don't like about the solder & pull through fittings is that they're just so darn expensive. A guy can tig weld it for less while using less expensive ferrules & fittings.
Last edited by NineInchNails on Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Solder/flaring/ dimpling on a keg

Post by still_stirrin »

NineInchNails wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:57 am Soldering stainless isn't tricky at all as long as you follow the basic instructions.

1. Abrade both surfaces and clean both surfaces (most recommend acetone).
2. You can form a ring of solder and let it sit on the joint.
3. Pre-heat the surrounding surface well, working from the outside in.
4. Now start to heat the thicker fitting. Do not torch the solder directly. Don't be stingy with the flux.
5. Once the solder flux starts to bubble & smoke you know the solder is about to melt.
6. Once the solder melts check for spots that may need more. If a spot doesn't look good, hit it with a little heat and the solder should flow to the heat. A little flux helps too. If it needs more solder, just poke it with a little more.
7. Lastly once it's soldered ... DON'T fool with it. Just walk away for several minutes. Don't add water or a wet rag.

I soldered stainless weld spuds to the underside of my kegs yesterday for the first time. I fooled around, broke many of these rules and it worked out just fine. I used Stay Clean flux and silver solder. Soldered joints are real tough. I prefer tig welded joints, but the more fittings you solder, the less you'll have to take in to get welded.

What I don't like about the solder & pull through fittings is that they're just so darn expensive. A guy can tig weld it for less while using less expensive ferrules & fittings.
Corrected your typo.
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