SSR controllers
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SSR controllers
Hi all,
A few questions about SSR driven controllers for distilling. Either PID or simple pot driven.
So I see a few threads about these. But it surprises me that they are not more popular (compared to voltage regulator). From what I can tell one of the protests against them is the fact that they are an on/off solution. Which will not allow constant heat. But does this really affect anything if they are cycling in a 1-2 second period?
Or is it just that using them is in a way re-inventing the wheel as the other controllers work well?
The ability to control elements with low voltage logic seems attractive to me.
Or am I missing something else?
A few questions about SSR driven controllers for distilling. Either PID or simple pot driven.
So I see a few threads about these. But it surprises me that they are not more popular (compared to voltage regulator). From what I can tell one of the protests against them is the fact that they are an on/off solution. Which will not allow constant heat. But does this really affect anything if they are cycling in a 1-2 second period?
Or is it just that using them is in a way re-inventing the wheel as the other controllers work well?
The ability to control elements with low voltage logic seems attractive to me.
Or am I missing something else?
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- Swill Maker
- Posts: 464
- Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:12 am
Re: SSR controllers
You will get a variety of opinions, but I think the take home message is that the voltage control is the preferred method.
Meow, I will tell you that I have a SSR with PWM controller because that's what I started with for my brewing rig. I did change the capacitor to change the cycle time. It's on a simple keg pot still, so not as sensitive as a reflux column. But, I have not noticed any smearing that appears to be caused by the cycling. It cycles on/off several times a second. When running slowly, it pulses on very briefly, but maintains a steady stream. No pulsing like when I used my stovetop when I first started out. When boiling, I don't notice any change in the boil, so I personally think it's ok.
A PID is a different animal. You would have to use it in manual mode for distilling, and then you just have an unnecessarily expensive controller. If that's what you already have for a brewery, then it's probably fine to use it- in manual mode.
If I were to build a dedicated still control, I would likely go SSVR for consistency and reliability of maintaining a constant power input.
SR
Meow, I will tell you that I have a SSR with PWM controller because that's what I started with for my brewing rig. I did change the capacitor to change the cycle time. It's on a simple keg pot still, so not as sensitive as a reflux column. But, I have not noticed any smearing that appears to be caused by the cycling. It cycles on/off several times a second. When running slowly, it pulses on very briefly, but maintains a steady stream. No pulsing like when I used my stovetop when I first started out. When boiling, I don't notice any change in the boil, so I personally think it's ok.
A PID is a different animal. You would have to use it in manual mode for distilling, and then you just have an unnecessarily expensive controller. If that's what you already have for a brewery, then it's probably fine to use it- in manual mode.
If I were to build a dedicated still control, I would likely go SSVR for consistency and reliability of maintaining a constant power input.
SR
HD Google search: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 46&t=50259
Re: SSR controllers
ShineRunner wrote:You will get a variety of opinions, but I think the take home message is that the voltage control is the preferred method.
Meow, I will tell you that I have a SSR with PWM controller because that's what I started with for my brewing rig. I did change the capacitor to change the cycle time. It's on a simple keg pot still, so not as sensitive as a reflux column. But, I have not noticed any smearing that appears to be caused by the cycling. It cycles on/off several times a second. When running slowly, it pulses on very briefly, but maintains a steady stream. No pulsing like when I used my stovetop when I first started out. When boiling, I don't notice any change in the boil, so I personally think it's ok.
A PID is a different animal. You would have to use it in manual mode for distilling, and then you just have an unnecessarily expensive controller. If that's what you already have for a brewery, then it's probably fine to use it- in manual mode.
If I were to build a dedicated still control, I would likely go SSVR for consistency and reliability of maintaining a constant power input.
SR
Interesting, Thanks man!
Yeah I will use it for brewing too. Probably sous vide too haha. I will be using an arduino as the "pid" so will make sure to be able to use it in manual mode too.
- bluefish_dist
- Distiller
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- Location: Eastern Ia
Re: SSR controllers
I use resister controlled ssr and it works fine on a column. My understanding is it becomes a pwm signal on each cycle, so there are typically 60 cycles per second. Far to short a time for the element to cool off between pulses. A nice and simple solution for controlling power input. Couple it with a meter from eBay and you have full control for less than $50.
Formerly
Dsp-CO-20051
Dsp-CO-20051
- Danespirit
- Site Donor
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- Location: Denmark
Re: SSR controllers
If it matters depends vastly on your still.
The bigger the still, the more mass to hold a constant temperature.
However, from my personal experience, I can say I've not had any trouble or grief with my SCR yet...and it's been running for a couple of years now.
For less than 10 $ on Ebay, it's hard to beat. A meter will be installed as soon as I have the time to make a new cabinet for it.
The bigger the still, the more mass to hold a constant temperature.
However, from my personal experience, I can say I've not had any trouble or grief with my SCR yet...and it's been running for a couple of years now.
For less than 10 $ on Ebay, it's hard to beat. A meter will be installed as soon as I have the time to make a new cabinet for it.
- Yummyrum
- Global moderator
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Re: SSR controllers
Jes2xu
The most common way to control an SSR DA type is by Time proportional Control . That's where you turn it on for X cycles and off for Y cycles over a 2 second period ( for a 50 Hz system) .That way you can achieve 0-100% power control ......but , you get the dreaded pulsating boil issue .
The other ( and better IMHO ) way to drive a SSR DA is by Burst Fire control . This spreads the on time over the 2 second period so you don't get the pulsing boil issue .
To elaborate .....say you wanted 75% power with the Time proportional control , the relay would be turned on for 1.5 seconds ( 75 cycles ) and off for 0.5 seconds .( 25 cycles)
In the burst fire control , the relay would turn on for 3 cycles , off for 1 cycle , on for 3 cycles , off of 1 cycle etc .....so the power is evenly spread over the 2 second period. ....the computer in the controller works out the number of cycles to best spread the power . ...It probably won't be exactly 2 seconds with some values but you get the idea .
Aurberins have a nice PID especially tailored for brewing that will drive the SSR DAs with either Time proportional or Burst fire mode http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_ ... cts_id=560" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
It can be just run as a manual power controller too .
No , I don't have one , but its what I will be getting soon .
The most common way to control an SSR DA type is by Time proportional Control . That's where you turn it on for X cycles and off for Y cycles over a 2 second period ( for a 50 Hz system) .That way you can achieve 0-100% power control ......but , you get the dreaded pulsating boil issue .
The other ( and better IMHO ) way to drive a SSR DA is by Burst Fire control . This spreads the on time over the 2 second period so you don't get the pulsing boil issue .
To elaborate .....say you wanted 75% power with the Time proportional control , the relay would be turned on for 1.5 seconds ( 75 cycles ) and off for 0.5 seconds .( 25 cycles)
In the burst fire control , the relay would turn on for 3 cycles , off for 1 cycle , on for 3 cycles , off of 1 cycle etc .....so the power is evenly spread over the 2 second period. ....the computer in the controller works out the number of cycles to best spread the power . ...It probably won't be exactly 2 seconds with some values but you get the idea .
Aurberins have a nice PID especially tailored for brewing that will drive the SSR DAs with either Time proportional or Burst fire mode http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_ ... cts_id=560" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
It can be just run as a manual power controller too .
No , I don't have one , but its what I will be getting soon .
My recommended goto .
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ion_Theory
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ion_Theory
Re: SSR controllers
Phase angle/pwm
I use a psr-25 based unit. On/off 60/50 times per second depending on your local mains frequency. Mine has been working very reliably for several years now. Its very controllable. I can see the results of the input in the cooling water temp and I can move that temp by just a couple degrees if I want using this setup. It also drives my electric Blichman boiler as well
I use a psr-25 based unit. On/off 60/50 times per second depending on your local mains frequency. Mine has been working very reliably for several years now. Its very controllable. I can see the results of the input in the cooling water temp and I can move that temp by just a couple degrees if I want using this setup. It also drives my electric Blichman boiler as well
Re: SSR controllers
Awesome!Bob421 wrote:Phase angle/pwm
I use a psr-25 based unit. On/off 60/50 times per second depending on your local mains frequency. Mine has been working very reliably for several years now. Its very controllable. I can see the results of the input in the cooling water temp and I can move that temp by just a couple degrees if I want using this setup. It also drives my electric Blichman boiler as well
Nice to hear that a set up like this is working for someone.
Re: SSR controllers
I use this
http://stilldragon.com/index.php/diy-la ... oller.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Works great!
B
http://stilldragon.com/index.php/diy-la ... oller.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Works great!
B
Re: SSR controllers
That basically what mine is except I had to piece it all together and they have put it all together in one package. If I had to do it again I would def buy from them. I added a small computer fan powered from a wall wart that I took apart, was rated for 110/220 12v output.bitter wrote:I use this
http://stilldragon.com/index.php/diy-la ... oller.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Works great!
B
Re: SSR controllers
Bob421 wrote:That basically what mine is except I had to piece it all together and they have put it all together in one package. If I had to do it again I would def buy from them. I added a small computer fan powered from a wall wart that I took apart, was rated for 110/220 12v output.bitter wrote:I use this
http://stilldragon.com/index.php/diy-la ... oller.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Works great!
B
Ah nice. Seem like the fan was doing its job?
My plan as of the moment is to build it in a old PC case. It still has a power source and 3 fans (the main reason I considered it). The whole controller thing has been pushed to the back of the que right now. But I need to get back on it ASAP
- cranky
- Master of Distillation
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- Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: SSR controllers
I think I would too.Bob421 wrote:If I had to do it again I would def buy from them.
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- Novice
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Re: SSR controllers
I purchased this one from auber instruments index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=559 Pretty slick little unit. Paired it up with a 25a ssr that they sell and a 4500w element. The module appears to be frequency based and can be read with a multimeter using the frequency setting. I put it all in my own control box but they do sell kits that include everything. Pictures to come.
Current still: mile hi 13.5 gallon with 3 inch pot column, electric heat