mason jar lids

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Re: mason jar lids

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

S-Cackalacky wrote:I've been using these - http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.a ... &catid=720" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow . The 2.725" size fits a regular mason jar and the 3.5" size fits a large mouth mason jar.

I use these for aging on glass - http://www.widgetco.com/jar-cork-stoppers-standard" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow . The 3.5" (size 48) fits a 1 gallon large mouth pickle jar.
Ok, so I was tossing and turning this morning about this post. I have never used naked lids before, due to the warnings I've read about. However, on the advise that was given in other threads, I wrapped the lids in aluminum foil. I've been doing this for 6 months now.

I got up, made my coffee, and ordered 25 of the 3.5", as I prefer to age in large mouth mason. I hope that they are round? The picture shows a sort of angular shape. Anyways. No more aluminum for me. Let's hope I haven't done damage in the last 6 months...

Goes to show that even when you've graduated to "knowing what the hell you're doing", doesn't mean it's time to stop reading. Even the basics of safety can change from how you knew it.

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Re: mason jar lids

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rad14701 wrote:While I haven't done any experiments, I'd be a bit cautious about using aluminum foil on spirit filled jars... Alcohol is a caustic solution and as such could cause oxidation due to the air, which is always present in any jar, mixed with alcohol vapor which has a tendency to evaporate and bead up on the bottom of lids... Those droplets could form oxidation rings around them and that is what you don't want to see... If the droplets fall back into the spirits they could take the oxides with them, or it could simply fall in all by itself... There would also be a gaseous reaction taking place during the oxidation process... The higher the proof of the spirits, the more I would be concerned... I think some experimentation is needed at various proofs...

I'd hate for someone to end up with something like Parkinson's Disease from the use of improper materials... My father, and virtually everyone else that worked in the factory he worked in for 42.5 years, has PD and the only thing they have narrowed the cause down to is aluminum oxide from the grinding wheels being circulated by the old ventilation system... The new ventilation system separates factory sections and utilizes modern day filtration methods...

Food for thought...

I think being cautious is good advice. FYI, I don't use my Mason Jars for long term storage. I use glass jugs with natural cork stoppers. I may look into getting those PTFE lid liners for some of those old-fashioned, light blue Ball canning jars for gifts. The thing is, even if I'm right about 10-mil aluminum liners not posing a problem, it seems a lot of other people might have a problem. The "customer" is always right is a wise motto to live by.
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by Tokoroa_Shiner »

HPD wrote:The "customer" is always right is a wise motto to live by.
Worse saying in the world. I've worked in retail/customer service. And I can tell you that the customer is wrong 99.99% of the time.
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by HPD »

Tokoroa_Shiner wrote:
HPD wrote:The "customer" is always right is a wise motto to live by.
Worse saying in the world. I've worked in retail/customer service. And I can tell you that the customer is wrong 99.99% of the time.
So have I. :D A lot of customers are wrong and some are idiots, but if you want to do business with them, you need to give them what they want.
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by vicrider »

Regarding the oak lids Corene, two questions. Do you store your jars upside down to give your product contact with the wood, and would rubbing the outside of the lids with a bit of bees wax not limit the loss of product?
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by warp1 »

S-Cackalacky wrote:I've been using these - http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.a ... &catid=720" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow . The 2.725" size fits a regular mason jar and the 3.5" size fits a large mouth mason jar.

I use these for aging on glass - http://www.widgetco.com/jar-cork-stoppers-standard" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow . The 3.5" (size 48) fits a 1 gallon large mouth pickle jar.
Thanks Bud....ordered a bunch of each. Very nice find....I need to tap my source and get some pickle jars coming....lol
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by S-Cackalacky »

warp1 wrote:
S-Cackalacky wrote:I've been using these - http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.a ... &catid=720" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow . The 2.725" size fits a regular mason jar and the 3.5" size fits a large mouth mason jar.

I use these for aging on glass - http://www.widgetco.com/jar-cork-stoppers-standard" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow . The 3.5" (size 48) fits a 1 gallon large mouth pickle jar.
Thanks Bud....ordered a bunch of each. Very nice find....I need to tap my source and get some pickle jars coming....lol
You're welcome.

I got the pickle jar thing pretty well worked out. When I need one I go to Walmart and buy a gallon of pickles. My son and daughter go through them in about a week.
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by warp1 »

lmao....did the same a while back, planned on using the jars to age Kahlua but couldn't find a lid to fit....so just use them now for blending. I know a few people in dart league that bartend....they'll just save the jars for me. I have 3 now.....but with fitting corks....ton more uses, including aging.
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by pipes_a_plenty »

cob wrote:
S-Cackalacky wrote:I've been using these - http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.a ... &catid=720" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow . The 2.725" size fits a regular mason jar and the 3.5" size fits a large mouth mason jar.

I use these for aging on glass - http://www.widgetco.com/jar-cork-stoppers-standard" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow . The 3.5" (size 48) fits a 1 gallon large mouth pickle jar.
those ptfe disks are a good find.

the link to widgetco however shows their line of laminated corks, 40 through 48 are laminated horizontally 3 layers

50 through 56 are laminated vertically, x layers to achieve diameter.

laminations mean glue of some form, no good.

widgetco may have large diameter corks that are not laminated but be sure of what you buy.
I'm actually pretty disappointed. I just bought some size 34 for standard mason jars from widgetco:

http://www.widgetco.com/34-large-cork-s ... gory=15591" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

and they came as a 3 horizonal layer cork. I don't see that mentioned anywhere on the page. I'd send them back but shipping back there would probably not be worth it factoring the shipping cost back (from Canada).
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by corene1 »

vicrider wrote:Regarding the oak lids Corene, two questions. Do you store your jars upside down to give your product contact with the wood, and would rubbing the outside of the lids with a bit of bees wax not limit the loss of product?
No , I keep the lids as dry as possible and use the oak chunks for flavoring the whiskey. I think if the were constantly in contact with the whiskey they would swell too much and break the glass. As far as the bees wax, I don't know I have never tried it. It may work but I don't know if it would completely block the vapors going in and out. But for long term storage after the oak is pulled it might be a good solution to the whiskey loss. Always something new to try, thanks for the ideas.
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by ShineRunnah »

vicrider wrote:Regarding the oak lids Corene, two questions. Do you store your jars upside down to give your product contact with the wood, and would rubbing the outside of the lids with a bit of bees wax not limit the loss of product?
I've been using lids similar to Corene's for several years now, though I run mine opposite with the flat side toward the jar and raised portion protruding from the hole in the lid band. I store mine on their side while oaking, and have yet to have any issues with breakage. I wrap the outer edge (sealing area) of the lid with thick Teflon tape and tighten just enough so it doesn't leak.

After oaking, I remove the oak sticks and store upright to allow the alcohol to breathe, which I feel is beneficial.

If I'm planning long-term storage, I dip the top of the jar in wax to the center of the lid band (got the idea from a Makers Mark bottle). Best I can tell, it slows evaporation to almost nothing.
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by corene1 »

ShineRunnah wrote:
vicrider wrote:Regarding the oak lids Corene, two questions. Do you store your jars upside down to give your product contact with the wood, and would rubbing the outside of the lids with a bit of bees wax not limit the loss of product?
I've been using lids similar to Corene's for several years now, though I run mine opposite with the flat side toward the jar and raised portion protruding from the hole in the lid band. I store mine on their side while oaking, and have yet to have any issues with breakage. I wrap the outer edge (sealing area) of the lid with thick Teflon tape and tighten just enough so it doesn't leak.

After oaking, I remove the oak sticks and store upright to allow the alcohol to breathe, which I feel is beneficial.

If I'm planning long-term storage, I dip the top of the jar in wax to the center of the lid band (got the idea from a Makers Mark bottle). Best I can tell, it slows evaporation to almost nothing.
Right now is when I smack myself in the forehead and say , Why didn't I think of that? Use the raised section to center the lid on the band and not worry about it expanding enough to crack the jar or get stuck inside it. Great Idea!
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Re: mason jar lids

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Just wanted to jump in this thread because I like it. And so I can find those links S-Cack posted when I need them. Thanks everyone!
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by corene1 »

ShineRunnah wrote:
vicrider wrote:Regarding the oak lids Corene, two questions. Do you store your jars upside down to give your product contact with the wood, and would rubbing the outside of the lids with a bit of bees wax not limit the loss of product?
I've been using lids similar to Corene's for several years now, though I run mine opposite with the flat side toward the jar and raised portion protruding from the hole in the lid band. I store mine on their side while oaking, and have yet to have any issues with breakage. I wrap the outer edge (sealing area) of the lid with thick Teflon tape and tighten just enough so it doesn't leak.

After oaking, I remove the oak sticks and store upright to allow the alcohol to breathe, which I feel is beneficial.

If I'm planning long-term storage, I dip the top of the jar in wax to the center of the lid band (got the idea from a Makers Mark bottle). Best I can tell, it slows evaporation to almost nothing.

Just wanted to thank you for the great idea! It works very well. This is what I wound up with . Nothing inside the lip of the jar to expand and cause problems.
PB290002.JPG
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by ShineRunnah »

corene1 wrote:
ShineRunnah wrote:
vicrider wrote:Regarding the oak lids Corene, two questions. Do you store your jars upside down to give your product contact with the wood, and would rubbing the outside of the lids with a bit of bees wax not limit the loss of product?
I've been using lids similar to Corene's for several years now, though I run mine opposite with the flat side toward the jar and raised portion protruding from the hole in the lid band. I store mine on their side while oaking, and have yet to have any issues with breakage. I wrap the outer edge (sealing area) of the lid with thick Teflon tape and tighten just enough so it doesn't leak.

After oaking, I remove the oak sticks and store upright to allow the alcohol to breathe, which I feel is beneficial.

If I'm planning long-term storage, I dip the top of the jar in wax to the center of the lid band (got the idea from a Makers Mark bottle). Best I can tell, it slows evaporation to almost nothing.

Just wanted to thank you for the great idea! It works very well. This is what I wound up with . Nothing inside the lip of the jar to expand and cause problems
PB290002.JPG
Nice, glad to be of assistance!
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by S-Cackalacky »

Just a thought, but why do you even need that raised part of the wooden lid? Why couldn't it just be flat? The metal ring will hold it in position - aligned with the rim of the jar. That way a thin plank of wood could be used and the circles could be cut with a simple hole saw - if there's one of the correct size. Someone in another thread even wrote about using circles cut from untreated oak veneer.

BTW - about the adhesive in the large cork jar stoppers. I looked at the ones I have and each layer of the laminated cork is about 1/2 inch thick. That said, I did some reading on wikipedia and found something saying that vapor will not pass through cork. I guess this would mean that the alcohol vapor would never make contact with the adhesive in the cork stopper. On the other hand, it was a little disappointing to read that, because I was under the impression that the cork stoppers were allowing my booze to breath - oh well. The cork stoppers are quite a lot more expensive than the PTFE discs, so I think I'll be investing in some larger PTFE discs for my aging jars.
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by ShineRunnah »

S-Cackalacky wrote:Just a thought, but why do you even need that raised part of the wooden lid? Why couldn't it just be flat? The metal ring will hold it in position - aligned with the rim of the jar. That way a thin plank of wood could be used and the circles could be cut with a simple hole saw - if there's one of the correct size. Someone in another thread even wrote about using circles cut from untreated oak veneer.

BTW - about the adhesive in the large cork jar stoppers. I looked at the ones I have and each layer of the laminated cork is about 1/2 inch thick. That said, I did some reading on wikipedia and found something saying that vapor will not pass through cork. I guess this would mean that the alcohol vapor would never make contact with the adhesive in the cork stopper. On the other hand, it was a little disappointing to read that, because I was under the impression that the cork stoppers were allowing my booze to breath - oh well. The cork stoppers are quite a lot more expensive than the PTFE discs, so I think I'll be investing in some larger PTFE discs for my aging jars.

The thinner the wood is (for a lid), the faster it will evaporate. If you don't mind watching your alcohol evaporate faster, by all means use thinner lids.

I also toast and char the bottom of my lids. Anything thin enough not to require a rebate on the rim probably isn't going to sustain toasting and charring.
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

I think an oak lid thin enough for the threads on the metal ring to work would need to be very thin. Oak that thin might tend to crack easily, or at least allow too easy an access for angels.
I've never seen unprocessed veneer. Veneer is made by gluing up wood slices, flitches, to a backer, usually paper, wood, or phenolic. I think raw wood flitches would also be too thin to work effectively.
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by corene1 »

The reason I use the thicker lid is to try and mimic what a barrel does. I don't want huge amounts of vapor to pass through and out into the atmosphere, but I do want a tiny bit to do that. It seems to clean up the flavors quite a lot. Remember it works both ways . When the jar warms up pressure is created and forces a slight bit of vapors out then when it cools it brings in a bit of fresh air. Like a super slow airing out process that we do when we first finish a run. Plus when one of my lids is broken I can use the pieces in the jar itself.
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by cob »

corene1 wrote:The reason I use the thicker lid is to try and mimic what a barrel does. I don't want huge amounts of vapor to pass through and out into the atmosphere, but I do want a tiny bit to do that. It seems to clean up the flavors quite a lot. Remember it works both ways . When the jar warms up pressure is created and forces a slight bit of vapors out then when it cools it brings in a bit of fresh air. Like a super slow airing out process that we do when we first finish a run. Plus when one of my lids is broken I can use the pieces in the jar itself.
iv'e often wondered why you didn't just put a piece of wax paper over your oak and under the ring?

for more vapor transfer you could start with a pin hole.
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by ShineRunnah »

Stainless steel foil would give you a safe, effective way to seal Mason jars. The stuff is used all the time in heat treatment. Its just like aluminum foil, but made of SS. It costs a bit more, but not so much as to be prohibitive given the amount needed for a dozen or two jars. It can be found a number of places, EBay being a good spot to find small quantities. Ive used it when heat treating certain types of steels in my forge, its pretty tough stuff and could likely be reused a few times.

Don't know why I didn't think of it before.
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by cob »

pipes_a_plenty wrote:
cob wrote:
S-Cackalacky wrote:I've been using these - http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.a ... &catid=720" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow . The 2.725" size fits a regular mason jar and the 3.5" size fits a large mouth mason jar.

I use these for aging on glass - http://www.widgetco.com/jar-cork-stoppers-standard" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow . The 3.5" (size 48) fits a 1 gallon large mouth pickle jar.
those ptfe disks are a good find.

the link to widgetco however shows their line of laminated corks, 40 through 48 are laminated horizontally 3 layers

50 through 56 are laminated vertically, x layers to achieve diameter.

laminations mean glue of some form, no good.

widgetco may have large diameter corks that are not laminated but be sure of what you buy.
I'm actually pretty disappointed. I just bought some size 34 for standard mason jars from widgetco:

http://www.widgetco.com/34-large-cork-s ... gory=15591" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

and they came as a 3 horizonal layer cork. I don't see that mentioned anywhere on the page. I'd send them back but shipping back there would probably not be worth it factoring the shipping cost back (from Canada).
widgetco customer service says the glue they use is

FOOD GRADE POLYURETHANE GLUE

they don't have or will not supply an MSDS for their "food grade polyurethane glue"
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by pipes_a_plenty »

cob wrote:widgetco customer service says the glue they use is

FOOD GRADE POLYURETHANE GLUE

they don't have or will not supply an MSDS for their "food grade polyurethane glue"
Interesting. Thanks for digging into this a bit more.

Guess its gallon jugs for me, at least now I have a local place Ive found that stocks them and with reasonable prices. I'm using the 34 corks upside down to cover the openings on some 1/6 barrel sankes kegs filled with low wines and feints...
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by ShineRunnah »

It's always a good idea to know your materials and any possible risks associated with their use. Informed decisions are always better than guesses.

Polyurethane is chemically inert when fully cured (not 100% sure on poly glue, looking into it) and is somewhat resistant to ethanol (B rating in the submersion testing results I found). I'm not saying it is safe or justifying it's use, only that I wouldn't be overly concerned if you have been using agglomerate, laminated or other cork containing polyurethane glue.

Considering the small amount of glue needed to laminate a cork stopper, the risk may be negligible. That is obviously a decision best left to someone more knowledgeable in this area than myself, and again, I am not in any way stating or suggesting it is safe. Merely stating what little I do know about it.
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by S-Cackalacky »

I don't have any problem with the glue in those jar stoppers because I see very little contact with the liquid ethanol. What I have a problem with is the idea that the adhesive may be blocking the ability of the cork to allow breathing to take place during the aging process. Compared to the PTFE discs from US Plastics, the cork stoppers are much more expensive. I bought two of the cork stoppers several months ago and have been using them, but I don't think I will be buying any more of them. I'll just use the lids that came on the pickle jars with PTFE liners. Maybe put them on loosely to allow some breathing (or maybe not). I shake and open the jars every couple weeks or so anyway, so I don't know how important the whole breathing thing is.

Glad someone got an answer from Widgetco about the adhesive. I wrote them an email several weeks ago and never got a reply - except to put me on their email mailing list. I'll continue to use their bottle stoppers.
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by jackfiasco »

Those wooden lids are making me quite envious! I gotta look into making some. Speaking of which, check these out: http://cattailswoodwork.net/wood-mason- ... -shelving/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow They're gorgeous. And for sale, though super expensive!

I also just ordered some of those PTFE liners, and would like to thank you for the link as well, Cackalacky. The big cork stoppers sound like a great idea but at $4+ each I don't know..

Oh and speaking of gallon jars, y'all, instead of buying a ton of pickles (not that pickles aren't delicious) just go to a bar and ask them to save you the empty gallon jars they get olives, cherries, etc in. My girlfriend and I are both bartenders and got a couple dozen gallon jars this way within a few weeks. You can also ask them for empty liquor bottles as well. I reuse 360 vodka bottles with the swing top caps, and bottles like bulleit, espolon, templeton, etc - anything with a cork stopper.
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by yakattack »

warp1 wrote:lmao....did the same a while back, planned on using the jars to age Kahlua but couldn't find a lid to fit....so just use them now for blending. I know a few people in dart league that bartend....they'll just save the jars for me. I have 3 now.....but with fitting corks....ton more uses, including aging.

Another dart player. Lol. I am seeing a very big trend lately on a lot of overlapping interests between us all. We should all pool our money and buy an island lol
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by Fishkiller68 »

What do you all consider High ABV? I have bought commercial moonshine in mason jars and it's as high as 100 proof (50% alcohol) and I have not seen any degradation of the lid at all. Are you talking about storing the likker before dilution?
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by S-Cackalacky »

Fishkiller68 wrote:What do you all consider High ABV? I have bought commercial moonshine in mason jars and it's as high as 100 proof (50% alcohol) and I have not seen any degradation of the lid at all. Are you talking about storing the likker before dilution?
It might be perfectly safe. Point is - we don't know for sure. High proof alcohol is a caustic solvent and mason jar lids were made for preserving food - NOT storing alcohol. At what proof the strength of the alcohol becomes an issue is also unknown. I know this isn't a scientific answer, but with safety in mind, it's just a matter of using materials that we know to be safe.
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Re: mason jar lids

Post by coastershiner »

I completley wrap my mason lids PTFE tape. Easy. Safe. No big deal.
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