4 Distilleries allow to run during Prohibition?

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USMCKoontz
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4 Distilleries allow to run during Prohibition?

Post by USMCKoontz »

One of the cool things about Bourbon, Moonshine, Whiskey etc.. is the history and study you can do for it all. My wife and I will be traveling back home to visit my family in Indiana. Along the way we plan on stopping at a couple places.. Buffalo Trace and Four Roses being our main two we want to see. So I happened upon some info that Buffalo Trace was one of 4 distilleries allowed to stay open during the prohibition to make "medicinal" stuff..

Where can I learn more? And what were the other three that were allowed to remain open?

thanks
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moosemilk
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Re: 4 Distilleries allow to run during Prohibition?

Post by moosemilk »

Browse through the "off topic" section of the forum. There is a lot of history posted there. Some great documentaries online if you Google "prohibition". There's one on Canadian netflix right now that's a 3 part series, not sure about USA.

Edit....you are in the right forum now. just weed through.
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Re: 4 Distilleries allow to run during Prohibition?

Post by MitchyBourbon »

I don't know this to be true, but I suspect those few distilleries that were left standing during prohibition are responsible for today's laws. Making it so they would never have to face any competition.
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Re: 4 Distilleries allow to run during Prohibition?

Post by StillLearning1 »

MitchyBourbon wrote:I don't know this to be true, but I suspect those few distilleries that were left standing during prohibition are responsible for today's laws. Making it so they would never have to face any competition.

Makes perfect since to me. I bet they came up with what "legally" could be called whiskey, Bourbon ect....
But what the heck do I know.....I am still learning.
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Re: 4 Distilleries allow to run during Prohibition?

Post by woodshed »

MitchyBourbon wrote:I don't know this to be true, but I suspect those few distilleries that were left standing during prohibition are responsible for today's laws. Making it so they would never have to face any competition.
Speculation at best. Truth is Buffalo Trace puts out bottles you would kill to make. Cause they have been at it so long. Plenty of laws can be blamed on the liquor industry. Good chance they influenced your ability to make as well. It is a business to many of us. Back then they looked up it as a way to stifle competition. I hope the modern craft distiller can look past that. And push for legalization. As I have.
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Re: 4 Distilleries allow to run during Prohibition?

Post by MitchyBourbon »

Speculation, I think I stipulated that.
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Re: 4 Distilleries allow to run during Prohibition?

Post by woodshed »

No doubt. Just agreeing in my way.
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Re: 4 Distilleries allow to run during Prohibition?

Post by MitchyBourbon »

It would be interesting to do a little research and find out if any of "them left standing" really had anything to do with these laws.
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Re: 4 Distilleries allow to run during Prohibition?

Post by woodshed »

I would guess BT could have been an influence. JD claims it but BT has much firmer ground to stand on. I am referring to oldest.
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Re: 4 Distilleries allow to run during Prohibition?

Post by dstaines »

The most interesting source for information about this topic that I've found is Chuck Cowdery's blog. I won't link it but he's got all of the digs on the medicinal whiskeys that were made during prohibition, as well as just about anything else you could want to know about the American whiskey industry. There were a few producers who were allowed to make new product near the end of prohibition because the warehouse stores made prior to the lockdown were running out.
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Re: 4 Distilleries allow to run during Prohibition?

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"Six distilleries were given permits to sell medicinal whiskey during Prohibition-A. Ph. Stitzel, Glenmore, Schenley, Brown-Forman, National Distillers and Frankfort Distilleries-and these companies were allowed to store whiskey and sell it to licensed druggists, who in turn could mete it out to customers who had a doctor's prescription. In his bookNothing Better In The Market, John Ed Pearce says that only 10 such medicinal whiskey permits were applied for, and although the reasons for such a small number aren't quite clear, it was possible that most people in the industry simply thought the permits not worth the bother."

" Here's a list of the whiskey distillers still remaining in the game after Prohibition ended:

The biggest whiskey company was the National Distillers Products Company, a reputable company formed in the 1920s that was an indirect offshoot of the disreputable Whiskey Trust of the late nineteenth century. In 1933, National owned approximately 50 percent of all of the whiskey in America along with a number of notable distilleries such as the Wathen Distillery (Old Grand-Dad, Old Taylor and Old Crow), the Overholt Distillery (Old Overholt) and three other distilleries that produced straight whiskey. The company was acquired by the Jim Beam Brands Company in the 1980s.

The James B. Beam Distilling Company was formed in 1933. It was purchased in the 1960s by what is now the American Brands Company and is currently called the Jim Beam Brands Company. It now owns the Old Taylor, Old Crow, Old Overholt and Old Grand-Dad brand names, in addition to four small-batch bourbons-Booker's, Baker's, Knob Creek and Basil Hayden's-and its signature Jim Beam whiskeys.

Schenley, under the guidance of its owner, Lewis Rosenstiel, had acquired a number of distilleries, brand names and quite a stock of whiskey during Prohibition. By 1934, his company owned the George T. Stagg Distillery (Ancient Age) and the James E. Pepper Distillery (James E. Pepper whiskey) among others. I.W. Harper, Old Charter and Cascade (George A. Dickel) brand names were purchased by Schenley in the late 19305. and Schenley itself was later acquired by United Distillers.

The George T. Stagg Distillery went on to become the Ancient Age Distillery and was sold before Schenley was taken over. The plant is now owned by the Sazerac Company and produces Ancient Age, Eagle Rare, Benchmark and a range of single-barrel bourbons-Blanton1s, Rock Hill Farms, Elmer T. Lee and Hancock's Reserve.

The Stitzel distillery joined forces with the Weller company to form Stitzel- Weller. The company bought the Old Fitzgerald brand name in 1933 and went on to become pan of United Distillers in the 1980s.

Glenmore Distilleries (Kentucky Tavern, among others) survived Prohibition well and went on to become a major producer and importer of a number of liquor and liqueurs. The company was acquired by United Distillers in 1991.

Brown-Forman (Old Forester, EarIy Times) had a supply of aged whiskey on hand to kick off the 1933 celebrations. After the company's 1934 fiscal year didn't turn out to be as profitable as predicted, its president, Owsley Brown, did the honorable thing and offered half of his stock to his disappointed investors in lieu of a dividend, The company went on to buy the Jack Daniel Distillery in the 1950s.

Frankfort Distilleries (owners of the Four Roses brand) survived the dry years and was bought by the Seagram company in the 1940s.

Leslie Samuels (Maker's Mark) reopened his Dearsville distillery in 1933 and sold TW, Samuels Bourbon (named for the first Samuels to open a commercial distillery). His son, another T. W. Samuels, took over the operation after Leslie's death and ran it until 1943. After taking a IO-year sabbatical from the industry, he returned to his whiskey roots, bought a plant in Loretto that he named Star HiIl Farm and started to produce Maker's Mark Bourbon in 1953.

The Tom Moore Distillery was reopened as the Barton Distillery after Prohibition. It was later taken over by Oscar Getz and is now owned by Barron Brands 'Whiskeys made at this distillery include Very Old Barton. Ten High, Kentucky Gentleman, Colonel Lee, Tom Moore and Barclay's.

A. Smith Bowman, a farmer in Virginia who had been in the whiskey business prior to Prohibition, started making Virginia Gentleman Bourbon in 1935.

In 1935, a group of investors opened the Heaven Hill Distillery in Bardstown. The Shapira Family, owners of this distillery, now produce Heaven Hill, Evan Williams, Elijah Craig, Henry McKenna, J:r.s. Brown and Mattingly & Moore bourbon as well as Pikesville Supreme Rye Whiskey.

Also in 1935, the Austin Nichols company; previously concerned solely with the food business, took an interest in whiskey and other liquors. In 1942, they introduced Wild Turkey bourbon to the marketplace."

" Here's a list of the whiskey distillers still remaining in the game after Prohibition ended:

The biggest whiskey company was the National Distillers Products Company, a reputable company formed in the 1920s that was an indirect offshoot of the disreputable Whiskey Trust of the late nineteenth century. In 1933, National owned approximately 50 percent of all of the whiskey in America along with a number of notable distilleries such as the Wathen Distillery (Old Grand-Dad, Old Taylor and Old Crow), the Overholt Distillery (Old Overholt) and three other distilleries that produced straight whiskey. The company was acquired by the Jim Beam Brands Company in the 1980s.

The James B. Beam Distilling Company was formed in 1933. It was purchased in the 1960s by what is now the American Brands Company and is currently called the Jim Beam Brands Company. It now owns the Old Taylor, Old Crow, Old Overholt and Old Grand-Dad brand names, in addition to four small-batch bourbons-Booker's, Baker's, Knob Creek and Basil Hayden's-and its signature Jim Beam whiskeys.

Schenley, under the guidance of its owner, Lewis Rosenstiel, had acquired a number of distilleries, brand names and quite a stock of whiskey during Prohibition. By 1934, his company owned the George T. Stagg Distillery (Ancient Age) and the James E. Pepper Distillery (James E. Pepper whiskey) among others. I.W. Harper, Old Charter and Cascade (George A. Dickel) brand names were purchased by Schenley in the late 19305. and Schenley itself was later acquired by United Distillers.

The George T. Stagg Distillery went on to become the Ancient Age Distillery and was sold before Schenley was taken over. The plant is now owned by the Sazerac Company and produces Ancient Age, Eagle Rare, Benchmark and a range of single-barrel bourbons-Blanton1s, Rock Hill Farms, Elmer T. Lee and Hancock's Reserve.

The Stitzel distillery joined forces with the Weller company to form Stitzel- Weller. The company bought the Old Fitzgerald brand name in 1933 and went on to become pan of United Distillers in the 1980s.

Glenmore Distilleries (Kentucky Tavern, among others) survived Prohibition well and went on to become a major producer and importer of a number of liquor and liqueurs. The company was acquired by United Distillers in 1991.

Brown-Forman (Old Forester, EarIy Times) had a supply of aged whiskey on hand to kick off the 1933 celebrations. After the company's 1934 fiscal year didn't turn out to be as profitable as predicted, its president, Owsley Brown, did the honorable thing and offered half of his stock to his disappointed investors in lieu of a dividend, The company went on to buy the Jack Daniel Distillery in the 1950s.

Frankfort Distilleries (owners of the Four Roses brand) survived the dry years and was bought by the Seagram company in the 1940s.

Leslie Samuels (Maker's Mark) reopened his Dearsville distillery in 1933 and sold TW, Samuels Bourbon (named for the first Samuels to open a commercial distillery). His son, another T. W. Samuels, took over the operation after Leslie's death and ran it until 1943. After taking a IO-year sabbatical from the industry, he returned to his whiskey roots, bought a plant in Loretto that he named Star HiIl Farm and started to produce Maker's Mark Bourbon in 1953.

The Tom Moore Distillery was reopened as the Barton Distillery after Prohibition. It was later taken over by Oscar Getz and is now owned by Barron Brands 'Whiskeys made at this distillery include Very Old Barton. Ten High, Kentucky Gentleman, Colonel Lee, Tom Moore and Barclay's.

A. Smith Bowman, a farmer in Virginia who had been in the whiskey business prior to Prohibition, started making Virginia Gentleman Bourbon in 1935.

In 1935, a group of investors opened the Heaven Hill Distillery in Bardstown. The Shapira Family, owners of this distillery, now produce Heaven Hill, Evan Williams, Elijah Craig, Henry McKenna, J:r.s. Brown and Mattingly & Moore bourbon as well as Pikesville Supreme Rye Whiskey.

Also in 1935, the Austin Nichols company; previously concerned solely with the food business, took an interest in whiskey and other liquors. In 1942, they introduced Wild Turkey bourbon to the marketplace."



All the above excerpts were taken from the book, The Book of Bourbon by Gary Regan.
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Re: 4 Distilleries allow to run during Prohibition?

Post by DeepSouth »

On May 29, 1933, Franklin Roosevelt declared a national emergency that had been brought about by a series of events that culminated in the stock market crash of 1929 and the massive unemployment that followed. In order to "put people to work," Roosevelt proposed a "New Deal" for the country. As part of this deal, Congress passed his National Industrial Recovery Bill that effectively suspended anti-trust laws and compelled industries to write their own fair trade codes, the idea, in general terms, was to make each industry share the available work among as many people as possible. Just over six months later, when Prohibition was repealed, the beer, wine and spirits industries had to devise codes of their own.

Owsley Brown (Brown-Forman), Frank Thompson (Glenmore) and a group of other concerned distillers met with attorneys from the Wholesale Liquor Dealers Association in Washington, D.C. Their aim was to unite the entire distilled-spirits industry, write a code of conduct that would be acceptable to all and convince everyone to sign it. The idea was that the distillers would show their willingness and ability to police themselves from within and prevent post- Prohibition bars from becoming the seedy, unregulated dives they had been prior to 1920. To a large extent, it worked.

In December of that year, the Distilled Spirits Institute (DSI) was formed in the New York offices of the Schenley Products Company. DSI went on to merge with the Licensed Beverage Industries (formed in 1946) and the Bourbon Institute (formed in 1958) to become the Distilled Spirits Council of the United States (DISCUS) in 1973.

Also in December 1933, President Roosevelt formed the Federal Alcohol Control Administration (FACA), an agency charged with establishing codes to which any company in the beverage-alcohol business was legally compelled to adhere. Luckily for the distillers, the FACA was controlled by Joseph Choate, a man who had been against Prohibition from the outset and who said that he intended to use "as little external control as possible." The FACA became the Federal Alcohol Administration in 1935, and the following year, it issued updated classifications of all liquor. This agency eventually became part of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.
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Re: 4 Distilleries allow to run during Prohibition?

Post by Braz »

A very good book on the subject of prohibition is Last Call by Daniel Okrent.
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Re: 4 Distilleries allow to run during Prohibition?

Post by MitchyBourbon »

Wow, that is a fascinating history of how distillers survived prohibition. Thank you for sharing this.
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Re: 4 Distilleries allow to run during Prohibition?

Post by Dan Call »

Sally Van Winkle Campbell's Book "But Always Fine Bourbon," as well as Oscar Getz's "Whiskey in America" both touch on medicinal whiskey. The Campbell book focuses almost exclusively on the Sitzel Weller operation, which her grandfather, Julian P Van Winkle I, bought and owned, including the famous Old Fitzgerald bourbon, as well as Cabin Still, Rebel Yell, and others. Sitzel Weller was a class act from day one, and was bought in a raggedly fashioned deal by United Distiller's for 19 million, a fraction of it's worth in it's prime. Speaking of prime, Old Fitzgerald was considered without peer as the best bourbon in the world. It was as close as it got to a small batch premium bourbon. All pot stilled, the batch operation was kept close at hand, as was probably as close as any commercial operation to the type of quality that contemporary small distillers get.

It really is a fascinating story. To put it short, Van Winkle goes on record as selling a great deal of medicinal whiskey during prohibition,ranking third or fourth behind the behemoths, which kept the whole operation floating. Julian P Van Winkle was an amazing character.

Wife is wanting to go out and measure new garage, so I have to run, but I will add some notes to this thread.

I also have a serious beef with this new "Moonshiners" series after Tim Smith joined forces with Chuck at Belmont Farms. I don't know where to start, but I'm plum pixelated. Belmont Farms is one of the few small operations I respect, they grow everything the distill right there, and use a pot still for everything. I can't believe they allowed the Moonshiners to start pimping his operation for their moonshiner BS, but they actually do sell a product with Tim Smith's name on it, it's not whiskey, it's corn sugar junk, but apparently it's doing quite well. That thread will be started soon.
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Re: 4 Distilleries allow to run during Prohibition?

Post by contrahead »

Prohibition is generally assumed to have been an all-American folly but the fact is that many countries passed prohibition laws during the same period. The Scandinavian countries Norway (1916), Iceland (1915) Finland (1919) and Faroe Islands (part of Denmark / 1907) passed their own prohibitions before the U.S. did. The Canadian provinces of Alberta, Ontario, Prince Edward Island and Quebec passed prohibition. Russia in 1914 and Hungary in 1919 – also passed their prohibition. This same widespread Protestant / Temperance / anti-alcohol movement also struck communities in Sweden, Australia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom.

In America Prohibition ended in 1933 with the repeal of the 18th amendment. Although the common reason given for the end of prohibition is that it was unenforceable, the larger truth was that the government was broke and it needed money. It was with the 1919 passage of Prohibition that Americans lost the freedom to privately distill alcohol. We never got it back and are unlikely to. The government is far too jealous of the lucrative tax base.

It was the British Parliament that set the precedent (from 1661) of taxing liquor, as a means of paying off their national dept, incurred by borrowing money to fund their navy. That bastard Alexander Hamilton (he was born out of wedlock) and first Secretary of the U.S. Treasury was eager to tax distilled spirits in America, to repay money borrowed from lenders during the Revolutionary War. So the ‘Whisky Rebellion’ ensued, hardheaded Scotch-Irish "Rednecks” abandoned the thirteen Colonies and migrated to wild lands like Kentucky and Tennessee.

Today (an average) 50% of the price of a bottle of booze in the U.S. is tax. The price of a bottle of Scotch in Scotland is about 72% tax.
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