how did the first settlers in america make likker

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how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by dukethebeagle120 »

just curious,but how did the first settlers make shine.
they had no fancy yeast strains.
they had no sugar to boost alcohol content.
did they use wild yeast strains.
this really interests me and any info would be great
thnx
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by DBCFlash »

The history I've read indicates all grain mash left open to "catch" wild yeast. Every distiller had their own recipe and with the great variation in yeasts and water qualities every batch was different. Ideas about medicinal properties of liquor were very different then than now. The history is very intriguing.
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by Kareltje »

I doubt the first settlers knew how to distill, when they came over the landbridge between Siberia and Alaska. They probably knew alcohol and beer, but distilling was invented much later.
Word has it the Arabs invented it, not the red Indians.
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by Pikey »

Don't underestimate the technical abilities they possessed. They got there in ships, with iron tools, guns and powder. Each of the urban women would be pretty expert brewers and would understand the principles of fermentation very well, because beer was the only drink it was safe to drink in urban areas. I don't think they would have any problems getting and keeping yeast.

Distilling using malt has been well known in Scotland and Ireland way back in time and I think the Irish in particular had learned to use malt to saccharify starches in other substances, so this would only have needed to be applied to corn.

[Edit - point taken Kareltje :) ]
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by rgreen2002 »

Depends on the term "settler"..

Many believe that the indigenous Indians were "introduced" to alcohol by European settlers via trade but this is only somewhat true. Most likely they were introduced to spirits this way. Some evidence suggests that some Indian groups were capable of making drinks on par wth wine or beers.

In the Southwestern U.S., the Papago, Piman, Apache and Maricopa all used the saguaro cactus to produce a wine, sometimes called haren a pitahaya. Similarly, the Apache fermented corn to make tiswin (also called tulpi and tulapai) and the yucca plant to make a different alcoholic beverage.

The Coahuiltecan in Texas combined mountain laurel with the Agave plant to create an alcoholic drink, and the Pueblos and Zunis were believed to have made fermented beverages from aloe, maguey, corn, prickly pear, pitahaya and even grapes.

To the east, the Creek of Georgia and Cherokee of the Carolinas used berries and other fruits to make alcoholic beverages, and in the Northeast, “there is some evidence that the Huron made a mild beer made from corn.” In addition, despite the fact that they had little to no agriculture, both the Aleuts and Yuit of Alaska were believed to have made alcoholic drinks from fermented berries.

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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by just sayin »

Well stated, Pikey. Beer had been a daily staple for hundreds and hundreds of years.
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by goose eye »

Well id say some dinasors use to get
drunk. Maybe from eatin drunk cavemen
or maybe from eatin fermintin fruit on the ground.

Find it funny folks dont think they the first to learn.

There was over 100 tribes in nc alone. Lot of em was in seasonal contact with fruit which in terns starts to fermintin on its on if left alone.

Who first started fermintin
Find out where man ansesters come from
An look to see if they had fruit and id bet there
was one drunk in the crowd or one enlightened one
all in how you look at it.

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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by seamusm53 »

Kareltje wrote:I doubt the first settlers knew how to distill, when they came over the landbridge between Siberia and Alaska. They probably knew alcohol and beer, but distilling was invented much later.
Word has it the Arabs invented it, not the red Indians.
"Settlers" :lol: :lol: :lol: How very PC to call Americas first inhabitants as settlers when most of us use that word to think of settlers as being from Jamestown forward.

By THAT definition, I'm pretty sure the settlers knew how to distill.
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by dukethebeagle120 »

the scot-irish brought distilling to north america.
the germans also.
what i am interested in is there tecniques they used.
surely things have changed.
was there yeast wild airborn yeast or did they use malt as a converter and also as a yeast.
sourdough starters have yeast in them.
is that how they got there ferments going.
i'm looking for a history lesson
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by seamusm53 »

dukethebeagle120 wrote:was there yeast wild airborn yeast or did they use malt as a converter and also as a yeast.
Malt and yeast are two separate ingredients/processes. The malt is for starch conversion to simple sugars whilst the yeast are there to eat sugar and piss out alcohol.

But yes they generally used airborne or wild-type yeast.
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by Cu29er »

It all started with wild yeast, enough time to sort out the good from bad wild yeast batches, and then keep producing the good yeast. Example is one of the San Fransisco sourdough bread companies has the original 'mother' yeast culture they started with a hundred+ years ago. They just keep feeding it and using it every day.

"This records a purchase of "best" beer from a brewer, 2050 BC from the Sumerian city of Umma in ancient Iraq" (wikipedia)
Image

"Drawing of the distillation equipment used by the 3rd century Greek alchemist Zosimos of Panopolis,...Fractional distillation was developed by Taddeo Alderotti in the 13th century. The production method was written in code, suggesting that it was being kept secret." (also wikipedia)
Image

Foraging and capturing your own local yeast variety (however, I would avoid collecting around any brewing/bread making or composing sites as you'll only obtain what you are already using):
http://bootlegbiology.com/diy/capturing-yeast/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://www.craftcommander.com/brewing/2 ... -beginners" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Early American system
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn-cOmca_Xo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLxNWWeEAlw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by goose eye »

You dont think way back when they
wont cookin likker? Not up to today standards
but still cookin it off. Ole boys find it hard to
believe that no one did it.
Your job is makein beer an no one trys to improve
it. Folk got fruit fermintin. You dont think at some point they figured out to hot to cold. They sitin around a fire an no one in the bunch either intentionally or accdently boiled some an smelled likker an said hey. How can i catch that.

Sad truth be tole some folks dont think no good likker was made before they learned. They been addin pinch of this an a dash of that for a long long time. Every corner of the world makes likker an in my opinion them alchemist just figured out why not how.


So im tole
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by dukethebeagle120 »

ur right goose.
back then it was all natural.
none of these fancy stuff going in.
just corn rye barley water and time.
thats how god meant it to be ;-)
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by kiwi Bruce »

dukethebeagle120 wrote:just curious,but how did the first settlers make shine.
they had no fancy yeast strains.
they had no sugar to boost alcohol content.
did they use wild yeast strains.
this really interests me and any info would be great
thnx
I'll go back to the original question...the first settlers, I'll start with the Pilgrims on the Mayflower...they had a years supply of rum on board. At the time it was believed rum would ward off illness...didn't help, half of them died that first winter. (Wife's side of the family are Mayflorians) They also had live bread yeast in the form of dough, that was also used for beer brewing. Next the Colonist's...they imported molasses from the British West Indies, all land owners had their own distilleries and breweries, (both Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin were cross breeding Hops from England with native American Hops) but Mother England decided to tax the shi# out of a barrel of molasses...more than doubling the price. So smuggling began...Rum running...importing cheap French rum from the French West Indies all over the colonies. England put up blockades and the market was forced to use a crude local produce...Pennsylvania Corn Whisky, soon Whisky was being made everywhere. After the War of Independence/revolution war...depending on what side you were on, George Washington decided to tax the shi# out of Whisky, the Whisky Rebellion followed, then a mass exodus into the wilderness, to get out of government control. The rest, as they say...is History.
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by kiwi Bruce »

dukethebeagle120 wrote:the scot-irish brought distilling to north america.
the germans also.
what i am interested in is there tecniques they used.
surely things have changed.
was there yeast wild airborn yeast or did they use malt as a converter and also as a yeast.
sourdough starters have yeast in them.
is that how they got there ferments going.
i'm looking for a history lesson
I've got to call you on this one, the Pilgrims were forced into exile to Holland, fourteen years before they left for the New World in 1620. The Dutch were already distilling and the Pilgrims brought this knowledge with them...don't take my word for it, look at the Mayflower site...or ask Oden ! ! !
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by thecroweater »

those pictures are from Alexandria Egypt, Greeks from Alexander the Great conquered that place, built and settled that city, naturally bringing and improving technology they had. This city had a great university and libraries and so made great advances in science in many fields including distillation. In the first century one student come teacher Mary the Jewess used a bain-marie (Mary's bath as a double boiler and a hydrometer to check gravity in the exact way its still done. Soon after others invented the flake and worm (the called the serpent) and Who knows what other discoveries were or would have been made but the place was sacked and burned in 619 by the Arabs and then completely conquered by them in 641 with most of the knowledge lost to the sword and flames. After this time the Arabs used distillation for the manafacture of perfumes and although the modern word for alcohol comes from the Arabic word it is a complete myth they invented or made any significant advancement to distillation. The truth is more likely it took civilization more than 500 years to get back to where the Alexandrian Greeks were way back then. I read somewhere the Chinese were distilling via a pot covered in damp wool maybe more than 3000 years ago, who knows why that never advanced.
Its fair to say the first European settlers of America took with them a full knowledge of fermentation and distillation, I'll bet a bewery was one of the first things built.
I know it was in Australia with the first fleet arriving in 1788 and James Squires bewery up and running by 1790 then by 1796 the government was trying to clamp down on the proliferation of illegal stills. By 1800 rum have become an unofficial currency due to a lack of hard cash. Being similar ppl settled America I have little doubt the history time line is much different. :thumbup:
Edit as a bit of a boast my whiskey I just ran is a James Squires mash, maybe not a 1790s one but I got an actual mash from one of their micro craft breweries :mrgreen: . Some of that guys descendants are actually in our hobby stilling community, small world ain't it
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by Truckinbutch »

:clap: Great thread for those with inquiring minds :thumbup:
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by Bvritr »

Actually it was the Spanish who brought distilling to what is now North America. On Oñates conquest of what is now New Mexico he brought the art of making pulque and planted the first vinyards. The Spanish also had the first "Thanksgiving" near El Paso all before the Mayflower and east coast settlements.
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by dukethebeagle120 »

agreed butch.this is becoming a great history lesson.
but in my original question i was hoping for more of info on there tecqniques.
how did they mash.
was it the same as today.
like a previous member commented they used yeast from breads
did they ferment with open tops or covered tops
recipes of old style ferment and tecniques.
there is a resurgence today in back to basic style products these days.
and beer and booze are in that list.
people want to try something different today.
though i brew and still for myself,i still like the hobby to be more then for just making booze.
anyone can crank out sugar shine.
but learning that history can bring you to maybe developing whole new taste.
great thread guys as butch said and keep it coming.:-)
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by Pikey »

I have read that the rum distilleries used wooden stills.
I have also read that they used lead pipes.
I'm pretty sure many would have had Iron equipment for ferments and stilling.

New is not always best, but "authentic" can be a bummer too !
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by dukethebeagle120 »

true.
but i`m more interested in the fermentation and mashing aspect
its better to think like a fool but keep your mouth shut,then to open ur mouth and have it confirmed
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by goose eye »

Ole boys would bet the first likker settlers made was fruit base. Grape brandy . Most thangs was shiped in barrel or kegs so got no doubt they used barrel to start. Fruit a chunk of horse meat a rusty nail an a srizzled up grape with white on it.
Ole boys can remember tells but they was youngins an not payin much attetion.

I figure it a society had the know how an was took over im betin they had someone that still no how an started bootleggin. If there is money to be made someone gonna do it cause someone gonna want it.

Same with proabihtion. You think folks quit makein
or you reckon they keep makein. An yes the goverment was killin folks for doin it. An to this day even amoungist some of youins have a bad opinon
of bootleggin made before now. That is how good the goverment smear campain worked.

Bootleggin been round a long long time


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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by Cu29er »

.

The famous Salem witch trials of 1692-3 have been explained by the unusually wet spring and summer that resulted in heavy rye mold problems and the mold's toxic effects - that was used to make bread (and probably beer+).

.
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by Kareltje »

Bvritr wrote:Actually it was the Spanish who brought distilling to what is now North America. On Oñates conquest of what is now New Mexico he brought the art of making pulque and planted the first vinyards. The Spanish also had the first "Thanksgiving" near El Paso all before the Mayflower and east coast settlements.
Now now, don't you talk politically correct! Do not upset people with inquiring, but narrowminded minds. :evil:

After I read the TT I was wondering about this subject too. Clearly one should take the terms settlers and America to their original meaning: those who come from other places and settle somewhere and the whole continent of America. Not just the colonists from Europe that grabbed North-America and specifically the USoA.
That is: if one really wants to understand history.

This thread opens a lot of knowledge by all the contributions.
I think it is strange the people in America never invented the wheel or script or distilling. But they did know how to make alcohol.
I wonder indeed if the Spaniards that killed the Aztecs knew about distilling and what is more: were motivated enough to practice it in their conquered lands. I think at least one of the sailors or soldiers would have known the technique and would have made use of it.

I am told that the commission that translated the Dutch Statenbijbel had a very high bill for their alcoholic drinks.
So the pious invaders of America must have been used to alcoholic drinks.
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by kiwi Bruce »

Cu29er wrote:.The famous Salem witch trials of 1692-3 have been explained by the unusually wet spring and summer that resulted in heavy rye mold problems and the mold's toxic effects - that was used to make bread (and probably beer+). .
This wasn't just mold on rye...this was Ergot Poisoning...This is one of the reasons that we keep say on HD...DON'T USE MOLDY GRAIN! There is a common yellow basement mold that will contaminate our brewing grains with the same poison. Ergot has an alkaloid Ergotamine that is a vasoconstrictor, which means it can cut off the blood flow in the veins of the extremities. JUST LIKE THIS ! !
Ergot Poisoning.jpg
Ergot Poisoning.jpg (63.77 KiB) Viewed 6645 times
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by thecroweater »

Dunno but the pious that butchered their way across the East Indies and southern Africa surely did make mampoer. ya know what they say about folks in glass houses not throwin stones
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by masonsjax »

but who were the first to go blind and blow themselves up?

*duck*
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by Pikey »

Do we have a thread on ergot ? I'm a little concerned this may develop into another of the ; Methanol - going blind type myths used by the prohibitionists to try to cut confidence in our hobby. - :roll:

Kiwi Bruce has the photo - perhaps that and Cu29er's post would be a good place to start - ?
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by Bvritr »

Kareltje wrote:
Bvritr wrote:Actually it was the Spanish who brought distilling to what is now North America. On Oñates conquest of what is now New Mexico he brought the art of making pulque and planted the first vinyards. The Spanish also had the first "Thanksgiving" near El Paso all before the Mayflower and east coast settlements.
Now now, don't you talk politically correct! Do not upset people with inquiring, but narrowminded minds. :evil:

After I read the TT I was wondering about this subject too. Clearly one should take the terms settlers and America to their original meaning: those who come from other places and settle somewhere and the whole continent of America. Not just the colonists from Europe that grabbed North-America and specifically the USoA.
That is: if one really wants to understand history.

This thread opens a lot of knowledge by all the contributions.
I think it is strange the people in America never invented the wheel or script or distilling. But they did know how to make alcohol.
I wonder indeed if the Spaniards that killed the Aztecs knew about distilling and what is more: were motivated enough to practice it in their conquered lands. I think at least one of the sailors or soldiers would have known the technique and would have made use of it.

I am told that the commission that translated the Dutch Statenbijbel had a very high bill for their alcoholic drinks.
So the pious invaders of America must have been used to alcoholic drinks.
Ill have to dig it up but I do have a recipe that dates pretty far back for a mash (cant remember the ingredients as ive had a very long day and am a few drinks deep myself at the moment) it even included how to make/collect the needed yeast.
The Spanish kept amazing records with every detail(physical descriptions, types of armor, tools and provisions) . I have read that they brought "brandy" with them to Mexico and when they ran out they began fermenting with local ingredients and made there own stills. Itll take some time but I will dig through my paperwork to see what I can find. I'm a bit of a family history geek and half of my family came with the Conquistadors and the other half were Quakers who ended up in the Ozarks.
pretty interesting read here with pictures of a "Mud still" in Mexico and talk of a copper still. http://ianchadwick.com/tequila/16-17th%20centuries.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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Re: how did the first settlers in america make likker

Post by dukethebeagle120 »

thnx pikey for rightening the road.
also bvritr,that would be great.
i would love to read it
its better to think like a fool but keep your mouth shut,then to open ur mouth and have it confirmed
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