Fuel Permit to Avoid TTB Letter

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Fuel Permit to Avoid TTB Letter

Postby greggn » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:43 pm

Curious ... did anyone submit an application for a Alcohol Fuel Permit and then later receive a TTB letter ? Has anyone who submitted an application actually been visited ?
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Re: Fuel Permit to Avoid TTB Letter

Postby Bayou-Ruler » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:20 pm

greggn wrote:Curious ... did anyone submit an application for a Alcohol Fuel Permit and then later receive a TTB letter ? Has anyone who submitted an application actually been visited ?


I got a letter, have had my permit for a few years..........
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Re: Fuel Permit to Avoid TTB Letter

Postby slow trickle » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:02 am

It has been said that even tax paying micro distilleries have gotten the letter. Anyone who has bought a still from a company that has had to give up their sales info has got the letter. I had planned on getting a fuel permit when I bought my still and other still heads as it turned out. I didn't know I had to have a separate building from my house when I bought. I have one now with 220 wired to it and have gotten my letter. Guess it is time to apply in case they do go check out the unregistered stills.
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Re: Fuel Permit to Avoid TTB Letter

Postby Prairiepiss » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:12 am

It's obvious the right hand doesn't talk to the left hand. As in normal government operations.
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Re: Fuel Permit to Avoid TTB Letter

Postby DAD300 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:19 am

As it is a shock and awe letter, they would not take the time or effort to cross reference who has a permit.
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Re: Fuel Permit to Avoid TTB Letter

Postby slow trickle » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:11 am

Dad, this may be true, but if they show up to look for my still and I was out in my building making a run I would have nothing to worry about. Just keep a gas can handy full of fores and heads and you are good. Collect in glass because you can't see when the red can is full. Keep nothing incriminating in the building and they have no right to enter your house.
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Re: Fuel Permit to Avoid TTB Letter

Postby Prairiepiss » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:14 am

Oh you give them the right to enter the house. It's part of your property. In which the distilling permit is assigned to.
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Re: Fuel Permit to Avoid TTB Letter

Postby slow trickle » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:35 am

True also, but if they show up during a run you are going straight to jail. Your collection of heads and fores is now evidence. Not to mention what ever else they find. With a registered still and things looking legit you have a better chance. Since I got the letter this seems like the best route for me to take. I don't plan on giving up a hobby that I feel should be legal within limits. This will make me feel more secure as I go forward.
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Re: Fuel Permit to Avoid TTB Letter

Postby rbw65 » Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:01 am

If you get a fuel permit you are opening up a can of worms, the Feds will and can inspect the sill at any time.
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Re: Fuel Permit to Avoid TTB Letter

Postby Squirrel » Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:47 am

They pretty much can come anytime they want now. May as well be as legal as possible.
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Re: Fuel Permit to Avoid TTB Letter

Postby slow trickle » Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:03 pm

That is my opinion as well squirrel. The people on here that have a fuel permit say they have not been checked.
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Re: Fuel Permit to Avoid TTB Letter

Postby John Barleycorn » Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:47 pm

slow trickle,

I agree. If you're already on "the list" the enforcers can come knocking at any time ... AFP or not. You can operate perfectly legal if you:

  • have an AFP and stay within production limits
  • are operating legally with respect to state laws
  • keep reasonably accurate records/inventory
  • withdraw only denatured alcohol
  • file your reports
However, once you withdraw alcohol from your plant that is not properly denatured, you'll be on the wrong side of the law again. But to your point ... getting nabbed during an illegal withdrawal presents a much smaller window of risk ... provided you're not stupid enough to keep your drinking stock in your residence where it will show up during a potential inspection. But owning a still, having it set up, even running your rig when the agents show up is no longer a problem.

In any case, if you do go for your AFP you really should have a legitimate use for what you produce. Even if it's something as simple as giving some fuel away to a local farmer (make sure it's properly denatured and make sure you get a receipt) ... or you dry it, mix it and drop a gallon or two in your own Flex-Fuel vehicle.

As long as your fuel remains in the plant (is not withdrawn) there is no requirement to denature it. There's nothing that says you can't use oak barrels for storage within your plant (but you might be pushing your luck). You can also destroy fuel within the plant prior to denaturing it (how you choose to do this is not specified). And ... you can perform various "testing" operations (that result in the fuel being used/destroyed). The bottom line is that you have to keep proper records.

I hope you understand what I'm saying here ... simply having an AFP won't save your ass if you're just a scofflaw. The folks you'll be dealing with aren't idiots. On the other hand, if you're legitimately producing fuel that's actually being used and there's an occasional liter or two that doesn't show up in the log book, you'd need to do something really stupid to end up in trouble. So the question is whether or not it's worth the effort?
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