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bearriver wrote:Your right, there is no way anyone can know his true intentions and I apologize for not being more tactful with that point. There is obviously more to it than what was said by Odin, but maybe you misinterpreted the context of my statement?
My post, as with this one, only means to encourage him to continue writing us and not overreact to whatever may have been said. Quite a few people like myself enjoy his posts because of his unique insight and now it's gone. Who win's exactly?
This thread which I enjoyed is presumably dead, and the OP won't be coming back. I hardly consider the possibility of talking him back here as "nothing good". But if that is the management's forced opinion then I obviously am in the wrong place and will take my "flapping jaw" elsewhere. Smart enough to know I when aint wanted, and like Odin will be somewhere else where I am. Have a nice day.
At least ya won't have to worry about them people who whine about their threads being hijacked anymore
Hope ya stick around Odin. Maybe dial er down a notch or 2 on the provocative thread titles though man. I can tell you are passionate about your stills but no need to dismiss everyone elses opinion on theirs.
When perpetual over-enthusiasm starts looking like an endless sales pitch, this is what happens... What is transpiring comes as no surprise to me whatsoever... Let's think back on several other now former members who went this same route... Those of us who have been around long enough remember all too well...
I'm glad everyone had a great albeit somewhat drunken time during the meet-up...
Everythings fine, and nothing changes except lets keep the name dropping of certain still brands to the classifieds where it belongs, so lets not start acting like a bunch of cackling hens and get a case of the ass. Christ. Odin, your inputs and challenges to the team, and thinking outside the box are always welcome, unless the techniques youre discussing can only be done on your still and not generically on any still someone might build. Not saying they are or arent, or you do or dont, just making a statement. So dont 'retreat', it will be a loss for all of us.
And dont automatically assume the 'Mods' are at the center of this. We have rules, and we've yelled at folks for even hinting at building stuff for sale outside of the classified section. We cant be hypocritical, and allow our friend to do differently.
Guys, let's not make this gain too much weight. I stop posting in threads where iStill is mentioned. Makes things easy. The posts will die slowly and the name mentioning will fade into the back ground, while the info, that I feel has valuable information to some or many, stays intact and findable.
I am not asking for special treatment and I never asked for special treatment. I am certainly not asking for the rules not to apply to me.
I most certainly did not stop posting in these threads, because of some grudge I hold against anyone, especially the Mods.That's not who I am, as some that actually got to know me will readily agree to.
I must say that getting contacted by a Mod acusing me of selling my stills all over HD came as a bit of a shock. It wasn't a question or an invitation. It felt like an acusation, because I am not selling anything. Especially, because when I explained what I explained in my previous as well as in this post, I got a response back that the Mod fully understood and agreed, but was pressured by the big shots to do so anyhow, and tell me to stop doing this, whether he liked it or not. That did not feel too good.
My stills are not targeted at homedistillers. And my SPP I have only been selling to homedistillers as a payback for all the great info I have gotten, being a homedistiller and being a part of HD. In fact, I'd love to stop selling SPP, since it is just so much work. To make and to ship. Imagine I have to answer like 10 emails a day on that product alone. So the less people buy it, the less work it is. If I count in my hours, I don't make but loose money on it. Just sharing this as an explanation. Not boosting another sales strategy.
But I can understand that's the opinion of some that complained, that I am "telling because I am selling". Maybe those that sell Flutes? And for sure that's a bees' hive I probably shouldn't have stirred up. Too many dollars involved? Maybe, but not mine. It is funny to see that that post brought back some Flute builders to HD that hadn't visited in a long time. Maybe I touched an open sinew? But I just touched it. It was and is open for anyone to see and touch. Then again: who knows and/or who cares.
I shouldn't talk about my stills and other products.But my enthousiasm sometimes gets the better of me. Especially when my rig just blew a 20 times more expensive rig out of the water with one and a half eyes closed. And my knowledge on still design is - as I said before - fully intertwined with the products I make, and vice versa. Somehow, I guess, it is difficult to seperate one from the other. For me and for the people reading my posts. So no more posting in threads that mention my products by name and no more posting from me about my products.
Again, I am not trying to sell anything. Or that's what I thought. Just sharing info that, from a competitive angle, I shouldn't have shared at all. But then I decided: "I got so much out of HD, let's not be affraid and share & give back". Yes, I probably will do a lot less posting about still design. Why? Because - as mentioned above - my knowledge & products are so much intertwined, I don't think I can seperate them easily. And even if I do, and, for instance, on theoretical grounds, proclaim SPP (any SPP) has certain advantages over other stuff, others may think: "Yes, he says that, because he is selling it!" That interpretation is not mine, and it is actually not true, but to each his or her own. I respect that. And that's a rule I live by.
I will probably keep on posting about recipe development stuff, since that's another part of this hobby of ours I very much like. But please let the Mods decide. As stated before, I am also a professional gin consultant. If anyone gets the idea I am trying to sell you consultancy, let them or me know and I will refrain from posting about the topics I also consult about as well.
Long post, but I feel I owe you an explanation.
See you guys soon in other threads.
Odin.
"Great art is created only through diligent and painstaking effort to perfect and polish oneself." by Buddhist filosofer Daisaku Ikeda.
Odin, sounds like you still want to retreat. Thats a shame, and wasnt/isint anyones intention. Our discussions here in HD with you on the science of distillation is always very stimulating and sometimes even a little confrontational. Its good. This thread, and all others should continue, and not die. Any mentions of iStill within have already been made, and no ones losing sleep over that. I encourage you to reconsider your stance, and not 'gain too much weight' yourself over any of this.
Odin my friend you are one of the many talented distillers of this forum that I have gained what little knowledge I have from. I think Rad said it best in the other thread, enthusiasm can sometimes be misread. You have always been a man at his word and if you say your intent is not selling good enough for me. I hate to see you stop participating in the theory threads as I think a lot of folks gain a lot of information from your input. I know that I have. I know you are upset anyone would be but take a breath and let's get back to arguing of still heads I for one miss the enthusiastic threads!
Stick around Odin...I missed all that you learned over the last year. I've been searching like crazy to try to find the threads where you developed your new theories. I love your development ideas and your opinions....
This is a private website, and can be ran however the ownership wants. I have no horse in that race, or opinions on how they keep their house. What I am, is just glad to see Odin isn't going anywhere and has worked through being unpleasantly surprised. Time will smooth things over considerably.
It's doubtful anyone has asked Woodshed to not talk about whiskey in general, or MR to stop talking about flutes in general just because that is their business. They both are frequently helping members in those subjects, and I am glad to have them here doing that. They just aren't supposed to talk about their products in a way that can be interpreted as advertisement. It's not a rule I think of as fair/unfair or good/bad, as apposed to just the way it is.
bearriver wrote:It's doubtful anyone has asked Woodshed to not talk about whiskey in general, or MR to stop talking about flutes in general just because that is their business. They both are frequently helping members in those subjects, and I am glad to have them here doing that. They just aren't supposed to talk about their products in a way that can be interpreted as advertisement. It's not a rule I think of as fair/unfair or good/bad, as apposed to just the way it is.
I agree!
"Great art is created only through diligent and painstaking effort to perfect and polish oneself." by Buddhist filosofer Daisaku Ikeda.
I will try again: I agree we/I shouldn't talk about our products that can be (mis)understood as a way of advertising them. There is a responsibility with the poster, more than with the reader.
Odin.
"Great art is created only through diligent and painstaking effort to perfect and polish oneself." by Buddhist filosofer Daisaku Ikeda.
Thanks everybody for at least trying to understand. Its a very strange situation indeed, because at the same time as trying to follow rules, we are ALL very proud of our HD Brethren who pursue a professional direction with this awesome hobby. And we want to encourage and follow along and be part of that excitement. Ill admit I dont know yet how best to encourage our folks and share in their excitement while maintaining that 'razors edge' for the rules we have.... its one of the less fun parts of helping with the mod duties. When we met Odin, he didnt once try to sell any of us his still. I think his talking about iStill around here has been more about pride than trying to sell us anything. If I had cool stuff like that that Id developed, be pretty damn hard to put a muzzle on me too just because we love to share our successes here with each other. Hell if Denali was real, commercial, and I finally released my Five Grain for example, Id love to tell folks know about it in my recipe thread for it, so they could decide for themselves if they wanted to go pick up a bottle and see what all those black and white words in the thread tasted like.
I apologize as well... after looking back through this thread, I did more than my fair share of hyping a product because I was very impressed and excited. I'll make a more concerted effort to stick by the rules from here on out.
Life member, representative, and proud supporter of the Hobby Distiller's Association.
Odin wrote:I will try again: I agree we/I shouldn't talk about our products that can be (mis)understood as a way of advertising them. There is a responsibility with the poster, more than with the reader.
Odin.
This in itself shows the man you really are. So many before have just moved on and forgot where they came from for the sake of money. I personally commend you for your gracious commitment to our hobby.
It's to bad that those that know the most about a product. Can't speak about it openly. Even if it could further the education of the hobby as a whole.
What's even worse is if a user of said products endorses said products. Or tries to put them into a discussion. They also get shunned.
I guess its better if we all just get half the info. And try to figure the other half out on our own.
You know I've followed this thread and it's hard left turn and there's still a bit of knowledge even tho this oversight has occurred. In a peer review Odin pointed it that the hot burn of a sugar head wash, could be reduced by adding good nutrients for the yeast. Any one else spot that gem?
Odin what would you suggest as nutes for a Ujssm type?
Odin keep posting please, there's a still a few of us learning from you, thank you?
Everything's better home made, everything!!
15.5 keg 7.75keg 2"pot still, Gold CM
Never look down on a man unless it's to help him up.
