Steam distillation

Steam powered cooking and distillation devices.

Moderator: Site Moderator

User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10363
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: Steam distillation

Post by shadylane »

Yes. The keg was my old pot still and there was already a fitting there for a thermometer.
One of these days, I'll throw away the useless pressure gage and connect the manometer there.
User avatar
Brutal
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1349
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 6:02 pm

Re: Steam distillation

Post by Brutal »

Hi varocketry! Glad to see you working on a steam project. It was a pleasure to meet you last year and I hope to see you again this summer.

I have been going from one high stress busy situation to another for a while. I haven't gotten much done. Think I only made 2=3 runs in 2015... I will have my steam cooker stripper device set up sometime soon though, and a little bit of copper/ss pr0n for you guys. I have a really cool condenser made as well. I can't even test it right now because I took just about everything else I own apart to upgrade connections and things.

Let's make 2016 the year of the Steam Home Distiller!
Steam injection rig http://tinyurl.com/kxmz8hy
All grain corn mash with steam injection and enzymes http://tinyurl.com/mp6zdt5
Inner tube condenser http://tinyurl.com/zkp3ps6
varocketry
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 514
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:15 pm
Location: somewhere not near Detroit

Re: Steam distillation

Post by varocketry »

I'm with you BRUTAL.
Ordering parts today. It occurred to me I can repurpose my potstill head into a modular unit to add the steam rig to it.

I'll just add a triclamp fitting into the 1" copper pipe.
Then make up the remaining steam rig attachment to connect to this.

Thus I'll have a modular set-up. Plus, the 1" triclamp from EBAY is cheaper than two 1" coupler fittings from Supplyhouse.com.
-Just need something else to build. -
varocketry
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 514
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:15 pm
Location: somewhere not near Detroit

Re: Steam distillation

Post by varocketry »

ShadyLane:

Can you please add details about your SS hose build?

1) What size hose did you pick and what size was your copper pipe?

I am using 3/4" copper pipe. I see AN-12 size SS gas line , which is 3/4" OD, on EBAY for $5.05 a foot.

2) How did you strip ... er .. remove the SS braid from around the rubber hose?

Or did you use something else as a source?
-Just need something else to build. -
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10363
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: Steam distillation

Post by shadylane »

The old injector used SS braid from a hose meant for a faucet.
The new one is going to use braid from this hose and 1/2 tubing.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_758118-61002-WH ... el+braided" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Removing the braid is easy, cut off both ends and the braid comes right off.
Remember the Chinese finger cuffs from when we were kids. The braid comes off with the same technique.

Edited: SS wire pokes painful little holes.
Last edited by shadylane on Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10363
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: Steam distillation

Post by shadylane »

Here's a pic of an old injector. It ain't pretty and it's kinda small
But it worked really good and never plugged up.
Don't let the long and flimsy fool you.
It seems to slowly move around in the mash.
And that's good. I'll be making a bigger version
The dents and smashed spots are from my drill powered stirrer :lol:
Attachments
DSCF0006 (400x300).jpg
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10363
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: Steam distillation

Post by shadylane »

For some what, flexible plumbing between the boiler and the injector this works good.
http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?par ... &cId=PDIO1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
varocketry
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 514
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:15 pm
Location: somewhere not near Detroit

How did you strip ... er .. remove the SS braid from around

Post by varocketry »

ShadyLane:

I am using 3/4" copper pipe. I just bought two feet of AN-12 size SS gas line on EBAY.
hose pic-cr.jpg
Q) How did you strip ... er .. remove the SS braid from around the rubber hose?
A: Removing the braid is easy, cut off both ends and the braid comes right off.

Uhhh, Shady .... both ends cut off, braid is pretty stiff and isn't budging. How do you do it?
Anyone?
-Just need something else to build. -
User avatar
pythonshine
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 737
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:31 pm
Location: Six miles past crazy!

Re: Steam distillation

Post by pythonshine »

The braid will act like a chinese finger trap if you just try to pull the hose out from one end. Try pushing the braid together and slowly pulling or push out the hose.
User avatar
Brutal
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1349
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 6:02 pm

Re: Steam distillation

Post by Brutal »

Mine came right off when I did that. I wrap several inches by the cut with masking tape. That keeps it from springing out and fraying the ends.

If yours is still stuck it might be glue to the rubber of made on there somehow. It should come out easy.

EDIT: should have mentioned I cut it with a cutting wheel in a 4" grinder.
Steam injection rig http://tinyurl.com/kxmz8hy
All grain corn mash with steam injection and enzymes http://tinyurl.com/mp6zdt5
Inner tube condenser http://tinyurl.com/zkp3ps6
varocketry
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 514
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:15 pm
Location: somewhere not near Detroit

Re: Steam distillation

Post by varocketry »

Brutal, Python, Shady:

Thanks gents, you were right on.
hose-pic3.jpg
There seemed to be a mechanical bond between the hose and braid. In looking at the hose, I notice there are SS reinforcing threads in the hose that probably were gripping the SS external braid.

The motion is very much like squeezing a chinese finger trap. But that combined with flexing/rotating the hose so the mechanical bond was broken, it came out almost immediately after that bond released.

WOW!
-Just need something else to build. -
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10363
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: Steam distillation

Post by shadylane »

The Chinese finger trap effect will come in handy when you connect the braided SS to copper tubing.
Just slip the braid over an inch or two of tube and try to pull it off. If it comes off try it again.
Once the braid is tight it wont come off. Once the mash cooks it on it will take some work to get it off :lol:
varocketry
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 514
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:15 pm
Location: somewhere not near Detroit

Steam Wand Built and First Test

Post by varocketry »

Wand0_cr.jpg
Steam wand built. Some delay as I'd decided to reuse the potstill connection to the electric boiler so I added a 1" tri-clamp connection.
Wand4_cr.jpg
Wand5_cr.jpg
-Just need something else to build. -
varocketry
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 514
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:15 pm
Location: somewhere not near Detroit

First Test

Post by varocketry »

Wand6_cr.jpg
Wand1_cr.jpg
Wand2.jpg_cr.jpg
Started to get a nice boil. Then realized I had a leak between two copper couplers and as the pressure built it bled off a lot of energy. The drips escalated from drip to drip, drip, to drip,drip, drip to full time sputtering.

The water was warming up but my thermometer showed me in was in a layer near the braid. When I stirred the water there was a loud pop the startled me and the water got cloudy for a few minutes. I could repeat the stir and get a pop until the water well well mixed. Startled me every time. It wasn;t a rattle or thumping - it really had a pop sound as if a blockage was pushed through.

So the big leak clearly showed me I need to get that brazed up. That'll be a trick as its dirty now so getting a braze to stick will be interesting. I got some copper wire to drip as I was finishing my brazing the wand so maybe I'll use copper wire as filler with a lot of flux????
-Just need something else to build. -
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10363
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: Steam distillation

Post by shadylane »

Looking good Varo :thumbup:

I don't much care for the snapping and popping sounds when heating water.
But it will be a little quieter when you heat mash in the cooker.
Here's a drawing of a prototype water trap for boiler over pressure protection.
It works pretty good on my cooker.
I'm using a 3' long piece of PVC for the water tube, the clear tubing hasn't been delivered yet.
Attachments
Big manometer.png
Big manometer.png (6.63 KiB) Viewed 5121 times
varocketry
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 514
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:15 pm
Location: somewhere not near Detroit

Re: Steam distillation

Post by varocketry »

Shady:

Soldered up the leaks from last week's test. Firing it up again now ....

The LOUD popping noises are coming from the mash keg where the wand is, not my boiler keg. If I grab the mash keg shell, the popping noise is dimished/muted greatly like holding a bell body when the clapper strikes.

I went inside for a minute to grab a snack and upon return the keg wasn't popping any longer, just has a steady low level boiling sound. I check the water temp and it was 120 deg F (up from 40degF start temp). There's hot water steam vapor coming out of the mash keg now. There is no apparent water agitation at all, the water surface in the keg is completely smooth, not bubbling anywhere. [just like the picture above in previous post]

Is this consistent with everyone else's experiences who uses a BRAIDED steam wand design?

-----

I just shut it down as the water temp reached 190 deg F. So it'll heat it enough to run an AG with enzyme process.

The glass thermometer seemed to show the same temp at several locations and water depth.

Question: With no apparent agitation, will a MASH charge be heated consistently without external agitation.
Or do I need to the drill and stirrer handy?
-Just need something else to build. -
User avatar
Kegg_jam
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1167
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:29 am
Location: Appalachian Mountains of MD

Re: Steam distillation

Post by Kegg_jam »

Steam hammer maybe?

My first injector hammered something awful. The one I'm using now doesn't hammer at all.
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10363
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: Steam distillation

Post by shadylane »

Varo what you describe sounds exactly like what I've seen and HEARD :lol:
You probably will need to have the drill and stirrer handy
Heating water is one thing, a thick goopy mash another
User avatar
jedneck
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 3769
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:16 pm
Location: drive to the sticks, hang a right past the sticks amd go a couple more miles.

Re: Steam distillation

Post by jedneck »

I agree with Steam hammer. Mine bangs like a $2 whore on Nickle nite. If you use hot water for mstarting the mash or warm the mash before filling boiler it isn't as extreme.
welcome aboard some of us are ornery old coots but if you do a lot of
reading and don't ask stupid questions you'll be alright most are
big help
Dunder
User avatar
WhiteDevil504
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 287
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:34 pm
Location: Corn Country

Re: Steam distillation

Post by WhiteDevil504 »

Can someone break down the physics behind the steam hammer? Bonus points if you can keep it at my 6th grade reading level.
User avatar
jedneck
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 3769
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:16 pm
Location: drive to the sticks, hang a right past the sticks amd go a couple more miles.

Re: Steam distillation

Post by jedneck »

Hot steam hitting cool/cold liquid. Causing vapour collapse. Kinda like clapping hands, go slow and no noise, go fast and noise.
Hope this explains it for you.
welcome aboard some of us are ornery old coots but if you do a lot of
reading and don't ask stupid questions you'll be alright most are
big help
Dunder
User avatar
WhiteDevil504
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 287
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:34 pm
Location: Corn Country

Re: Steam distillation

Post by WhiteDevil504 »

That absolutely makes sense, I just thought that the mesh steam wand would have broken up the escaping gas enough that this wouldn't be an issue. Very interesting, thanks Jed!
User avatar
Kegg_jam
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1167
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:29 am
Location: Appalachian Mountains of MD

Re: Steam distillation

Post by Kegg_jam »

Some of the things in this article are relevant.

https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help-ce ... er-hammer/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
User avatar
Brutal
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1349
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 6:02 pm

Re: Steam distillation

Post by Brutal »

When the mash/liquid being heated by the steam is cold the inside of the copper steam pipe becomes a condenser. The steam does not fill the entire thing. Most of the heat transfer is happening through the metal pipe. The colder the mash the more drastic the temp difference. It's the drastic temp difference causing the vapor to collapse and the pressure from that is making the noise. When Varocketry is cooking without agitating the water, a layer of water right next to the pipe gets hot and doesn't absorb heat from the pipe as quickly. This allows the steam to keep enough heat to stay as a vapor and just blow little bubbles out the tube. Then when he mixes up the thin water test mash the pipe is cooled much much better, getting back to the collapsing thing again.

@Varocketry I don't know how I missed your posts last weekend. That set up is looking good. Hopefully you have a nice welding glove to pull/replace that cork. It appears to be your only valve/vacuum break.

When mashing I just get up and mix with the drill periodically. At the start its every 10-20 minutes, and it gets more frequent as the temp of the mash rises. I think its only necessary because I add the high temp enzyme before I even start heating. As the overall temp gets higher the hot spots that could denature the enzyme become more likely. If you add the enzyme after a boil then I'd just let it rip until it starts channeling/splattering mash. Depends on how you do it. Either way having that much solid material in suspension certainly dampens the liquid properties of the mash.

@Shady what do you do on yours to keep the jacket from sucking up mash after the heat is off?
Steam injection rig http://tinyurl.com/kxmz8hy
All grain corn mash with steam injection and enzymes http://tinyurl.com/mp6zdt5
Inner tube condenser http://tinyurl.com/zkp3ps6
User avatar
WhiteDevil504
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 287
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:34 pm
Location: Corn Country

Re: Steam distillation

Post by WhiteDevil504 »

Thanks for the link kegg!

Brutal, thanks for the additional info. Would it be beneficial to have the 1"steam in pipe insulated by an air gap in a 1.5-2" pipe, then a reducer at the point where it transitions to the mesh to try to get the steam at pressure into the mash or does it not really cause a drop in efficiency and is more of an annoyance?
User avatar
Brutal
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1349
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 6:02 pm

Re: Steam distillation

Post by Brutal »

WhiteDevil504 wrote:or does it not really cause a drop in efficiency and is more of an annoyance?
There you go. Doesn't annoy me fwiw.
Steam injection rig http://tinyurl.com/kxmz8hy
All grain corn mash with steam injection and enzymes http://tinyurl.com/mp6zdt5
Inner tube condenser http://tinyurl.com/zkp3ps6
User avatar
WhiteDevil504
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 287
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:34 pm
Location: Corn Country

Re: Steam distillation

Post by WhiteDevil504 »

Awesome, thanks again for the info!
varocketry
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 514
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:15 pm
Location: somewhere not near Detroit

Re: Steam distillation

Post by varocketry »

Brutal:
Lol ..... you're so right ...I reached for my welding glove AFTER the first time I pulled out that cork when I was feeling how tight it was lodged in the 3/4" connector. Ouch!

A wine cork is just slightly smaller than the ID of the 3/4" connector. But it wedges lightly into the bottom for a seal. I've observed that the cork swells as its heated by the steam .... probably still would blow out easily but ..........

Now I keep a welding glove nearby!
-Just need something else to build. -
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10363
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: Steam distillation

Post by shadylane »

Brutal wrote:@Shady what do you do on yours to keep the jacket from sucking up mash after the heat is off?
I'm supposed to open the valve that vent's the water jacket :oops:
User avatar
steelmb
Swill Maker
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:04 am

Re: Steam distillation

Post by steelmb »

It's been quite awhile since I have researched this topic Wow there is a lot more interest in this steam distillation now that there was in July 2013. It seams to have caught on. Oh well you guys may figure it out eventually.
I believe MCH may have said it best. "It's your hooch, you get to choose."
Ding Dong
http://w.homedistiller.org/forum/viewto ... =7&t=66849
Post Reply