Wood fired steam boiler?

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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

Post by Prairiepiss »

Stupid forum rotated the pics. They aren't sideways until I upload them here.
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

Post by jedneck »

Mr Piss do you have a stream near where your gonna run at. If so look at a ram pump. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =1&t=53272 here is a link to a steam thread you might get a few idears from.
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

Post by Appalachia-Shiner »

I don't see the problem with making a Traditional Still Furnace out of Rocks and Mud. You are trying to live off grid...this would be a pretty good way to further that lifestyle. It was done around here for Years and Years...then folks got Civilized? and started using Propane. I remember when old folks would cut Mulberry trees cause Mulberry doesn't make much smoke...hence the law wouldn't see you as easy.
Cooling?? It depends on factors you haven't specified...It's pretty dry a lot of places out there on the prairie. Also, it gets so hot in the Summer, it might be hard to reuse and recool used condenser water.
Congratulations of your lifestyle. A lot of Amish folks around here are living off the grid right now. Good Luck
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

Post by robb »

Mr P. My gut tells me with the rims you will be constraining yourself with the firebox size. You need something big enough to shove big junks into with draft and flue to burn hot. 1/2 to 3/4 Rick for a run?. I do like the the rim with the top cut out so the keg just sets into it stability and heat is all around the bottom. I've heard of old stillers having a still built into their fireplace. Just personal use size. Just my .02.
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

Post by shadylane »

I was thinking about a firebox made out of 2 barrels. With 2 dampers to control the fire and the heat getting to the keg.
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

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I don't have the flow and or drop needed for a ram pump. Or I would already have one built. Lol

On my land I have two valleys with kinda creeks in them. The water flow here is different to say the least. Everything here is headwaters. Springs everywhere. But also the creeks don't flow the whole length of the creek all the time. You might have 20 foot of running water. Then it is dry for the next 10 to 30 foot. Then it pops back out of the ground and flows on top for a bit. Then back in the ground. I have a good spring but it only flows Octoberish to July Augustish. And when it flows it goes off my property about 40 foot down stream. And back on a hundred yards down. Just to cross back off.

I do have access to a whole lot of other springs that flow year round. But I have to truck the water in from them.

I have a hand dug well. That I dug last year. It's only 4 foot deep. And only provides enough water for the animals when we run the tanks dry. And it's 100 yards or so away too.

I want to build a spring house over our spring. This is where I really would like to put the still. But it's not going to happen anytime soon. And it is at least 200 yards from the living area. And even further to the build site. Eventually I will pump from it to a cistern up on the hill. But again not soon enough.

What I have. A tote on a trailer to haul in water. Two totes on the ground in the living area for storage to supply us and the animals. I have numerous 55 gal drums. Both plastic and metal. And buckets lots and lots of buckets.
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

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Now you are getting too specific. I am wanting to use the burner stove thing for other purposes. There will actually be two of them next to each other.
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

Post by shadylane »

Sorry, just brain-storming on how to heat a keg with wood, using readily available and cheap junk. :oops:
The idea would make it easy to control the fire and the amount of heat getting to the keg boiler.
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

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Prairiepiss wrote:I want to build a spring house over our spring. This is where I really would like to put the still. But it's not going to happen anytime soon. And it is at least 200 yards from the living area. And even further to the build site. Eventually I will pump from it to a cistern up on the hill. But again not soon enough.
Hmmm, then you're also going to need an ATV :think:
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

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We started building one of these at work today.
Three brake drums and some rolled steel.
We are gona build his as a prototype. And I will build one making changes if we need too. See what we can learn about using brake drums for wood heat.
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

Post by rad14701 »

Prairiepiss wrote:We started building one of these at work today.
Three brake drums and some rolled steel.
We are gona build his as a prototype. And I will build one making changes if we need too. See what we can learn about using brake drums for wood heat.
Keep us posted... I was just researching that design the other night... I'd want to integrate secondary burn heat tubes as well... Vertical or horizontal works for me...
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

Post by Prairiepiss »

rad14701 wrote:
Prairiepiss wrote:We started building one of these at work today.
Three brake drums and some rolled steel.
We are gona build his as a prototype. And I will build one making changes if we need too. See what we can learn about using brake drums for wood heat.
Keep us posted... I was just researching that design the other night... I'd want to integrate secondary burn heat tubes as well... Vertical or horizontal works for me...
That's what I want to do. He isn't interested in it. Which is cool. Because if we build them pretty close to the same size. And I add heat tubes to feed secondary burn. We will be able to compare the difference.

I've also been thinking about adding them to our wood stove I just restored.
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

Post by rad14701 »

I have a King 628 sitting at the wayside waiting for secondary burn conversion... May use that to heat my pool house... I may live in the sticks but I have an indoor pool and an elevator... And a sweet SOH... :ewink:
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

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Here is our stove I restored. It will go in our house whenever I get it built.

I am thinking about adding a baffle to it. I've seen people add secondary burn tubes to the exterior. Bu I don't like how they look. I'm thinking about drilling holes in the bottom. At the bottom front corners. And bring pipes in through them. Then up and across the front around the angled area. Like a loop. Drill holes in the pipe that goes across the top. And put valves on the pipes on the outside. Either run the pipes underneath to the back and have the valves there. Or just put them on the bottom there in front. I would rather not take away from the looks of it.

Also thinking about adding a water heating loop in it. Let it feed a old insulated water heater tank. Use convection to move the water.

Lol indoor pool. I just got this mental pic of the guy in your avitar sitting next to an indoor concrete pond.
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

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Ok for the wood fired boiler I am thinking something along the lines of this.

Two drums in a cob structure so it would have two burners. Why two? Because like I said I want it to be multi functional. So it can also be used for two burners for our big cast iron Dutch ovens. And I will also be building a griddle to fit over the top of the two of them. The griddle will raise up towards the back on hinges. And act as a wind break when needed. Thinking the drums will be setup as burners. And then cob around it. The cob will add insulation so not so much heat will be felt by whoever is cooking. And send more heat to the burner area. The drum will retain and release a lot of heat to the burner also. I am now thinking of going something like the stove we are building. Adding a piece of rolled steel under the drum to raise it up. And cut it out for the opening. And adding some sort of door to the opening. With dampers on it to control the burn.
It would be all part of our outdoor kitchen. Along with a cob pizza oven, a cob enclosed oven and a cod smoker. And whatever else I can throw in there.

This pic is the best one I could find of a cob burner setup. So something similar to this.
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

Post by jedneck »

Soon as I get an unmolested keg I I'll be joining the wood fired steamer club.
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

Post by FuelMaker »

How firmly are you attached to using a keg boiler for your steam generation? The wet steam a keg boiler would produce doesn't carry as much heat as steam can - and it adds more extra water to the still boiler.

Have you considered using a monotube boiler? With a monotube boiler you get on-demand steam without a warmup period.

For controllability you could have a dump valve diverting excess steam into your steam generator water feed tank. That way you recover both the BTUs used to generate it and the water content of the steam. Your steam generator could be fed by a small 40W pump or you could gravity feed if your raised the feed tank up high enough (about 6-8 feet).

I don't think you'll be able to get away from using a pump for your product and reflux condensers. I spent an awful lot of time, skull sweat, and crunched a bunch of numbers trying to figure out how to use convection thermosyphon flow. FWIW my conclusion was that its doable - but you need a BIG (=expensive) copper water-to-air cooling heat exchanger of 13.6 square meters of surface area for convection flow @ 8000W heat input and 1 inch copper pipes. Don't trust those numbers though - I made so many assumptions and WAGs on the variables it's probably worthless.

An idea for evaporative cooling a closed loop system for the hot water coming off the RC and PCs; maybe you could use a 20ish foot loop of 3/4" copper pipe wrapped thinly in cotton w/ a soaker hose zip tied to the top of it to keep the cotton moist. It shouldn't use much water. 3/4" copper pipe is kind of spendy though.
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

Post by Haus »

Might be far fetched but over in the fishing isle there are little pumps for aeration of cooler live wells (johnboat live wells as I call them) or sump pumps that run off deep cycle batteries. Those deep cycle batteries last quite a while properly maintained. I used to get 8 to 10 hours running a trolling motor and live well.
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

Post by Secale »

I saw this picture online and all I can't think of is somebody using something like this to make moonshine while heating a dwelling as well :clap:
If it's on YouTube. It has to be real. LOLZ

http://homedistiller.org/intro
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

Post by Jolly_Roger »

Here is an interesting video of a bio gas plant 3rd world style.
Not really an answer to your problem, however we are looking into it as an option for a gas motor to drive a water pump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoJTlhfjpXQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
All grain goodness without the nasty fibre
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

Post by hawgwrench »

I've used a flake stand sittin in a 55 gallon plastic barrel (the 10 dollar ones on craigs) for years and it works good. 25 feet of half inch keeps output cold, and if I drag a$$ around and run four or five hours only about the top 8 or 10 inches of water get warm (not hot). I add about 5 gallons back to it every month or so...if it was outdoors the rain would take care of that. That cast iron drum will hold the heat well, what if ya block (brick, rock whatever) up a "furnace" of sorts an set the rotor on top? Aint gotta be very high, an that would give ya a spell more room for a fire. Recall from childhood seeing the fire handled a couple ways. Build a fire close at hand an shovel coals into the furnace (long day) or feed in longer 8' foot stuff. Seems like that worked better as I can remember now and again seeing them pull a stick OUT as it was getting too hot. Wanted to try wood fired for ages...sorta nervous bout getting out in the open as the drug 'copter still fly's about pretty often :shifty: .
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

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Instead of starting a new thread I am digging this old one back up. Same limitations are in place. Looking for a wood fired steam boiler. But I will have more electricity that I can use to run pumps and other things. Just not enough to run an electric boiler. Well technically I will be able to run an electric boiler with my off grid system. But I don’t want to put the added stress on the system. And I really want to work out this wood fired steam thing. On to the new.

Ok so I have collected some new stainless pieces over the last few years. And I think I have formulated a start of an idea on how to best use them. I have 3 pieces that I want to build a full setup with. One being a stainless square tank. It’s roughly 117 gal. Has various pipe hook ups on it and a large man hole door on top. This is what I believe I will use as the wood fired steam boiler. I’m looking at building a cynder block firebox with this in it. Will have a damper fan control like a outdoor wood boiler for heating a house. It will be outside the shop And plumbed in through a side wall.
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

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And the latest addition is a 100 gal stainless tank on a stand. Has a lid it’s not great but I can work with it. It has a small drain on the bottom. The bottom does have a slight conical to it. So it is not flat. I will need to replace the drain with a bigger one either 2” or 3” TC is what I’m thinking. But this will become my mash ton / fermenter. Set it up to use steam from the wood fired steam boiler to heat and cook the grains for the mashing.
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

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And last but not least the still boiler. This is a really nice piece of stainless I saved from a scrap bin. It’s right around 30 gal. Has 3 short legs with adjustable feet. The bottom is angled to a drain. I think it’s like a 1.5” tc fitting. It has a 3” tc and a 2” tc on the sides. And the interesting part is the 2” tc fitting that has a 2” pipe goin into the boiler and turning down at an angle to one side. I thought this might make a cool thumper when I grabbed it. But I am still out on that thought. Maybe steam injection like a thumper. We will see? Maybe you all might have some thoughts on that. Anyway it doesn’t have a lid. But I ordered a 20” pan today that will make a nice top for it. I’m looking to weld the pan on to the top. After I add a 12” tc and one or two 4” tc ferrells to the pan. The 12” as a man hole and fill port. And the 4” to mount the still head or heads too.
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

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I’ve started reading through all the steam threads. About steam injection and steam jacketed still boilers. I have only gotten through a few of them. But I have an idea. Not sure if it’s a good or bad idea. But here goes. What about instead of a steam jacket around the boiler. Using a coil of pipe around the inside of the boiler. Kinda like a flake stand. So the steam travels through the coil heating up the still charge. I would think this would be more efficient then a jacketed boiler. A jacket would loose heat to the outside. Where the coil would be submerged in the still charge. And radiating heat all the way around. Thinking maybe one or two coils of I don’t know 3/4” or 1” wrapped around on the inside of the outer wall. And putting a lybig on the output to condense any remaining water vapors would give you distilled water output. Which could be handy for many other things.

I am wanting to run reflux first run. This is the reason I am shying away from direct steam injection.

Now about the wood fired steam boiler. I am at a loss on how I will control the fire. In a radiant boiler it doesn’t get to boiling. It has a set temp of around 180 deg f. So the temp controller can kick on the fan when it hits its low temp mark. And shuts it off at the high temp mark. But in a steam boiler the temp will always be 212 deg f. So I have no clue as to how to control how much heat to put into it. If you don’t put enough into it you won’t get enough steam to heat in a timely manner. And too much heat will just be waisted water and wood. Electric would be so much easier. But I want to work out this wood fired thing.

And for info sake. All my cooling will be provided by my water supply. Which is going to consist of. Rain water collection off my shop roof. The shop will be 30x64. So plenty of roof space to collect off of. This will feed into a 11,000 gal holding tank. That will be buried at least 4 foot in the ground. It is a vertical tank that’s 12 foot wide and 14 foot tall. I am going to plumb a one inch takeoff at the bottom just for still cooling. And a return line to the upper portion of the tank. So that I can just circulate my cooling water. And not use up my water source. Because this tank will be my supply for all my house water needs. Or I might just take the hot water from the still to fill the mash ton for the next batch. Pre heated water. And the steam boiler is already fired up to run it after the still run. LoL

As for electric. I have 40 230 watt solar panels going on the roof. I will have 2 4400 watt inverters. And hopefully around 1000 amp hours in 48 volt batteries. And looking at a 11kw generator for backup. And my welding needs in my shop. So I should have plenty of electricity to run cooling water pumps and transfer pumps.

Anyone got any ideas for me.
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

Post by shadylane »

If I was going to build a wood fired steam boiler.
I'd make it mono-tube, maybe something like this
wood fired monotube boiler.png
.


If you could be talked out of the steam part of wood fired
Here's some videos of very efficient wood fired stills

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=76359
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

Post by Prairiepiss »

I’m not sure I am understanding your drawing? So the blue coil I assume is where the steam is produced? So you feed it in the bottom and let the fire turn it to steam that comes out the top?
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

Post by shadylane »

That's basically how a monotube boiler works.
It has the fastest throttle response
It's also the safest of the boiler designs.

Google "monotube boiler" and click on images :wink:
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

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I’m not really looking for throttle response. And by the looks of it I would have to have a way to control the 2 baffles in the boiler that would be outside. I’m not sure if I like that idea.
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Re: Wood fired steam boiler?

Post by shadylane »

The biggest problem is going to be controlling the fire.
Here's another possible design. I'd use SS tubing for this one.

simplfied monotube.png
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