Safety

Any steam Cooking /Distilling Device

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Safety

Postby shadylane » Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:26 pm

Just My Humble Opinion
There needs to be a sticky about the safety requirements needed for Steam Mashing and Distillation.
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Re: Safety

Postby MichiganCornhusker » Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:25 pm

I like it, Shady.
Your manometer idea is a great start.
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Re: Safety

Postby shadylane » Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:21 am

A bubble trap is a small manometer. It will hold back 1 inch of water pressure.
Make the bubble trap 6 feet tall, it will hold back 2.6 psi
That's probably 3 times the pressure we need for steam injection.
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Re: Safety

Postby Yummyrum » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:38 am

Well shit I got a pretty bad steam burn last week . Wasn't an explosion or anything as spectacular .... just a lot of burn becuase I thought I would open the triclamp between the steam boiler and thumper full of Rum wash so it didn't all suck back when I had to shut it down
Though I had let it cool down enough but Oh .... " Bamm" burned .......simple things for fools not thinking .....gloves
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Re: Safety

Postby rgreen2002 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:01 pm

Dammit Yummy.... I just got a steam burn while mashing.... Ya jinxed me!

It's tiny, right on the edge of my thumb. No permanent damage but it stings like shit!!

Safety first Ladies and Gents!
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Re: Safety

Postby ShineonCrazyDiamond » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:26 pm

Now, imagine you underestimate that power, and get complacent. Pop a seal, or have that safety seal pointing at your face, or worse, not have a safety seal...hope you like catacombs...

7be576edb844e4c16df2dd771555d88b.jpg


Any more questions about safety?
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Re: Safety

Postby shadylane » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:32 pm

It's definitely a good idea to have any release of steam pointed in safe direction.
Hot alcohol vapor even more so.
On a side note I've scalded myself lifting the lid off a boiling pot of food many times.
But seldom When distilling
Guess I'm a lot safer distilling than cooking :lol:
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Re: Safety

Postby MichiganCornhusker » Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:57 pm

My manometer will be modular so that I can use it with my pasta pot.
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Re: Safety

Postby cob » Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:00 pm

shadylane you are right on with every point.

I was witness to a gasket failure on an inspection port on a high pressure (150psi) boiler.

3"x6" oval inspection port blasted a horizontal column of steam 150' and 20' in diameter.

there were no injuries of any kind. except the pride of the operators.
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Re: Safety

Postby shadylane » Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:19 pm

Here's another simply way to make a water trap for a safety relief
PVC can be used instead of the 2" clear tubing but you can't measure the boiler pressure.
Also the water trap works just as good, above or below the boiler
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Big manometer.png
Big manometer.png (6.63 KiB) Viewed 1769 times
Last edited by shadylane on Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Safety

Postby shadylane » Sat Oct 15, 2016 6:33 pm

rgreen2002 wrote:I have a primitive steam release on the wand just in case (lightly packed cork in a "L" arm above the wand)...

A "lightly packed cork" can't be calibrated, but it could "pop" before the boiler :lol:
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Re: Safety

Postby MichiganCornhusker » Sat Oct 15, 2016 7:10 pm

A manometer gives a continuous visual for pressure and also works as a potential relief valve as well as a vacuum break.
Is there anything simpler?

When I get mine together I will post info as I use it.
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Re: Safety

Postby Tater » Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:28 pm

shadylane wrote:
rgreen2002 wrote:I have a primitive steam release on the wand just in case (lightly packed cork in a "L" arm above the wand)...

A "lightly packed cork" can't be calibrated, but it could "pop" before the boiler :lol:
Heard old timers would whittle out pressure cork outta apple wood.and always were in direction that wasn't pointed where anyone get burnt. Think it was cause apple isnt soppose to swell . or so I been told :shh: good idea shady.
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Re: Safety

Postby thecroweater » Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:44 pm

shadylane wrote:Here's another simply way to make a water trap for a safety relief
PVC can be used instead of the 2" clear tubing but you can't measure the boiler pressure.
Also the water trap works just as good, above or below the boiler

Problem I see with this to my thinking is this would steam well before say a 50 gal drum of mash
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin
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Re: Safety

Postby Hank Reardon » Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:07 pm

It appears this thread has been somewhat redacted. I can speculate as to the reasoning that a good number of posts were deleted, but I wish our fair moderators would alert us..

That being said, the 2nd post through the 8-10 range were not for the average reader. I'm hopeful that is the reason.
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Re: Safety

Postby rubber duck » Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:20 pm

I've got the original posts if you want them. Whatever though, point is steam is dangerous well past the act of distilling. If some folks want to discuss the dangers I guess it's fine.

Steam is nothing to play with, if you think you know what your doing you had better be sure.
Ideas are like rabbits. You get a couple and learn how to handle them, and pretty soon you have a dozen. John Steinbeck
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Re: Safety

Postby Hank Reardon » Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:25 pm

Agreed RD. I have the posts, and am the dissenting author on more than 1.

I'm happy the motivation of the site was what I speculated.
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Re: Safety

Postby thecroweater » Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:10 am

Not sure where you guys are going with this but steam injection is not a new concept. It has its own sub-forum with 31 threads and 1070 posts. Yeah it has some inherent dangers and that is precisely why a safety thread would be a darn good idea :thumbup:
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin
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Re: Safety

Postby ShineonCrazyDiamond » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:45 am

Hank Reardon wrote:Agreed RD. I have the posts, and am the dissenting author on more than 1.

I'm happy the motivation of the site was what I speculated.
.

I thought there were a couple Notable and quotables in there! lol. :lol: Could have pulled those first :twisted:

Either way, big picture is Steam adds another level of awareness. Not only the pressure aspect, but there's another I think about all the time. As I slowly imagine my way to steam, my thoughts are around what I need to do to keep the engine running without running dry.

During our discussions, there have been talks that sort of mirror thumper-to-boiler size recommendations. Your engine should be a minimum size to keep the boiler charged through the whole run. And this recommended size will be a different if you consider whether you are filling the engine with wash or water. I'm sure fients could be considered, but then again probably even bigger of an engine fill.

I am not in position to make these recommendations from a scientific knowledge or experience angle, but I am smart enough to know this is an inherent risk that needs to be considered (evolution be damned! :wink: ). Don't want to be the first one to find out what happens there.
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Re: Safety

Postby shadylane » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:15 am

thecroweater wrote:
shadylane wrote:Here's another simply way to make a water trap for a safety relief
PVC can be used instead of the 2" clear tubing but you can't measure the boiler pressure.
Also the water trap works just as good, above or below the boiler

Problem I see with this to my thinking is this would steam well before say a 50 gal drum of mash


The water trap needs to be taller than the 50 gallon drum of mash
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Re: Safety

Postby rgreen2002 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:29 am

Tater wrote:
shadylane wrote:
rgreen2002 wrote:I have a primitive steam release on the wand just in case (lightly packed cork in a "L" arm above the wand)...

A "lightly packed cork" can't be calibrated, but it could "pop" before the boiler :lol:
Heard old timers would whittle out pressure cork outta apple wood.and always were in direction that wasn't pointed where anyone get burnt. Think it was cause apple isnt soppose to swell . or so I been told :shh: good idea shady.


Agreed.... I got the cork idea from here somewhere and I have it on a "L" facing upward and away. It pops and I shut the heck down!

Tater I recently switched to a rubber cork for exactly this reason. I noticed the cork was getting wet and swelling causing it to be more tightly packed into the coupling. The rubber won't swell and I don't think it will interfere with the mash.

I took a look and while there is a thread for steam as crow mentions, there is no specific thread for safety. Many of us recommend cranky's spoon feed and the thread does have a recommendation for the safety section. I just skimmed the first 5 pages of that section and there is nothing about steam in the thread titles. It isn't in the "basic safety" thread (as it probably should not be) and Taters sticky topic SAFETY on the top of the thread has nothing to do with steam (although great advice...my favorite from theholymackerel "wear pants"...so true!)

I said it before my posts got deleted (thank you for cleaning the post up!!) steam is showing up more and more here (frequently by people that are new to the site)...being pro-active and starting a safety thread is a great idea. For a forum that prides itself on safe distilling this shouldn't even be a question IMHO... if were talking about it I guarantee there are others wondering about it.
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Re: Safety

Postby bronctoad » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:34 am

I know I'm new to here. but I would also agree with a steam safety sticky. working in a boiler house I've seen and felt the effects of carelessness + steam = long term pain. just my 2cents
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Re: Safety

Postby Kareltje » Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:54 pm

I do not mind the removal of a useless discussion.
But it is a pity that shadylane's calculation of pressure is removed. That was useful information.

Instead of a unreliable stoppered cork I would prefer a lid with a known weight on top.
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Re: Safety

Postby shadylane » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:30 pm

Here you go, this will convert inches of water pressure to almost anything :lol:

http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/pr ... water.html
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Re: Safety

Postby MichiganCornhusker » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:36 pm

I think there are two broad categories of steam danger.

One is a high pressure situation that would lead to a catastrophic rupture.
This is a pressure danger the pretty much exists for all of our equipment, not just steam rigs.

The other is a relatively low pressure fault, like a hose connection coming apart, or a cork blowing, or a prv tripping.
Even at low pressure the steam can mess the flesh in an instant. Again, a consideration for all stills.
But the steam wands and such are different tools and are built with techniques and materials that may not have been put through the wringer of still development here.
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Re: Safety

Postby shadylane » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:55 pm

+1 MCH :thumbup:
Here's a 8 psi relief valve that could avoid a "high pressure situation that would lead to a catastrophic rupture"
https://www.amazon.com/Apollo-Valve-13- ... lief+Valve

Hells fire there's 20 psi stamped on the valve in the picture :lol:
Here's a 10 psi one https://www.amazon.com/Apollo-Valve-13- ... lief+Valve
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Re: Safety

Postby rgreen2002 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:27 pm

Could you also place a meter in the system to follow psi?
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Re: Safety

Postby thecroweater » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:30 pm

Not sure I would want to solely rely on a prv on its own. This is the direction I want to head with mashing and am considering running it of my flute with slip joints that could blow apart if shit did go down. How many folks run these off there stills compared to dedicated units I wonder? Is a dedicated steam unit likely to be a safer option?
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin
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Re: Safety

Postby FreeMountainHermit » Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:05 am

rgreen2002 wrote:Could you also place a meter in the system to follow psi?


Assuming you mean gauge, RG.

Heck why not install a gauge, vent tube & 5,10, 15 psi weight from a pressure cooker on the boiler as an early warning system. EEZY PEEZY.
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Re: Safety

Postby shadylane » Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:59 am

MichiganCornhusker wrote:A manometer gives a continuous visual for pressure and also works as a potential relief valve as well as a vacuum break.
Is there anything simpler?
When I get mine together I will post info as I use it.

Looking forward to seeing the pic's :thumbup:
Also the boiler pressure can be used to guess how much liquid is in a thumper
and when your flooding a packed column by driving it too hard.
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