Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Discussions of fruits/ veggies and grains other then just mashing

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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Postby cranky » Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:59 pm

Today I got delivery of a 5 gallon used Balcones barrel :D
BARREL - C.JPG

I didn't really want a used one but I'm too cheap for a new one :roll: because I want it for brandy. To me a used whiskey barrel tends to impart whiskey flavor to the spirit that is put in it and I don't want my brandy to taste like whiskey. There is also a problem with a new barrel of course, that being, to me, a new charred barrel makes the spirit taste too much like bourbon. So if I were ordering a new barrel it's likely I would order it toasted but not charred. Then I might even use a neutral to condition it into what I want. But as I said, I am too cheap to buy a new barrel so I wound up buying a used barrel. It has been used twice and smells very nice, not headsy, even fruity. My evil plan is to use it to barrel age 5 gallons of apple cider, maybe even do that twice, to get the barrel conditioned for the brandy to take a nice long time to mature.

I am sort of following in the footsteps of the Calvados makers, they never use a new barrel and feel the older the better so the oak doesn't over dominate the spirit. So hopefully the whiskey flavor will be imparted into the cider, which should make a nice interesting cider. Then the barrel should be ready to be used for the brandy and hopefully in a few years I will have a nice Calvados like Brandy.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Postby cranky » Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:43 pm

As you know from my post the other day I just got a barrel. So now I have been researching ways to use it. Of course I could do the standard and use it for brandy, whiskey and rum but as I mentioned before I want it for brandy and since it has previously been used for whiskey I need to condition it for the brandy before I put the brandy in it.

My plan is to use it to barrel age cider before using it for brandy. So I started researching barrel aging cider and got all sorts of ideas. Some people are barrel aging cider pretty much the same way as most everything else is being aged, empty the whiskey, fill with cider, wait. Then there are other interesting things going on. One thing I think is interesting is Pommeau, which is basically apple juice mixed with apple eau de vie then barrel aged. Then there is one that I am really finding intriguing, apple port. Basically from what I understand is they freeze concentrate sweet cider, ferment cold until it reaches a certain sweetness, then add eau de vie to bring the ABV to 18-20% an alternative is to ferment dry, sweeten with apple sweet cider, add eau de vie and then barrel age for a year. I would have to have more barrels to actually do that but it is a thought for the future. Right now my basic plan for this barrel is to age some hard cider in it for 4-6 months, then fill it with apple brandy for 6 months to a year and see what I think.

I am also thinking if I do manage to get to that 100 gallons of sweet cider next year I can freeze concentrate 10 gallons down to 5 and use the barrel for apple port after taking the brandy out. Then after the port is taken out use it for long term aging of brandy. Of course my ultimate goal is to achieve as close as I can to a good long term aged Calvados. They say Calvadose doesn't really come into it's own for at least 10 years and is amazing after 20. I'm not quite sure how that translates to a small barrel but I am certainly going to do my best to find out.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Postby Shine0n » Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:29 am

That's sounds awesome Cranky! Next weekend I'm going to start my apple juice concentrate so that by next Christmas I have some that's close to a year :thumbup

My plan is to use enough concentrate to make a 18 gallon ferment at 1.060 and then use 3 different type of apples, golden delicious, granny smith and one other to be determined and use them in the ferment. Unless that's
a complete no no, then I'll press.
I'll use 20 lbs and fine chop and let sit for 3 days before adding to the fermenter when the must is made.
I'm going to use Ec1118 since you said it's easier for cuts and let the ferment go for a month.
Once it clears I'll run through my pot still with thumper and do 1 run only and with 18 gal I will have enough to fill the thumper too.
I do have a way to connect to my worm without the thumper if you think I'll lose any flavors with the thumper.
I've used my thump for the other fruits I've done just not apples. But as for now the thumper is in my plans.

What is your take on running with the fruit in the boiler , or in the thumper? I did make the false bottom for my thumper and have pondered loading it with fresh apples to let the steam pass through.
I've been in experimenting mode for the last month or so and have gotten myself some really nice rumsky I like making but that's for another conversation, point I'm making is I have a very firm grip on my rig and it's potential and I like to mix up things a bit by not going down the beaten path.

If you see anything wrong with what I'm trying to do please feel free to point it out to me.
Thanks, Shine0n
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Postby cranky » Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:31 am

Shine0n I believe Der Wo swears by running fruit including apples with the pulp in the boiler. I think he may have a thread on it somewhere. I don't do it that way for a couple reasons. The first one is the space the pulp takes up. I did the actual math one but am going off of memory, and since my memory is crap I may be wrong but I figure it takes at least 30% more space to run on the pulp, so I get a lot more product per charge by running without. Storage space is a t a premium for me too so fermenting on the pulp takes up room I really don't have to spare. The other big reason is I understand there is an increase in heads when you ferment on the pulp plus other less desirable things that come from seeds. I like the idea of running with chopped or crushed apples in the in a thumper. One of these days I hope to get around to making a thumper myself and try it. I was very impressed by what Red Rim did with his thumper.

I am actually getting close to being able to do some running. I finally got my engine back last week and have it almost ready to go in, if only the weather would cooperate. :roll: Getting that done will free up a lot of time and space in my garage and I should be able to get this years brandy run off.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Postby der wo » Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:42 am

A month ago I distilled two batches apples on the pulp. Two months ago two batches pears on the pulp. I never fermented and distilled without the pulp, except oranges. So I never would argue, that my method is better. I distill with an agitator, so not only scorching is no problem, but also an even temparature in the thick mash is always given without adding much water to the mash.

I only know one study about it:

Pear Distillates from Pear Juice Concentrate: Effect of Lees in the Aromatic Composition
https://www.bostonapothecary.com/wp-con ... ntrate.pdf

it can be concluded that the compounds that are considered to be negative for the quality of the distillates (methanol, ethyl acetate, furfural) diminish or do not change their concentrations when they are distilled in the presence of lees, for all of the equipment tested. In addition, the positive compounds (ethyl decanoate and ethyl-2-trans-4-cis-decadienoate) increase their concentrations in the presence of lees for all of the equipment tested. So, it can be assumed that distillation in the presence of lees leads to a better quality product.

But both mashes were fermented with the pulp, and one of them distilled with and the other without the pulp. Not exactly, what we are comparing here, because cranky doesn't ferment with the pulp. And the study is also about the effect of copper to the distillate.
And it's theoretical. Only because this study sees advantages with the pulp, it doesn't mean, that it will taste better for you too, or that it will be the same with apples or plums.

If I had a thumper and no agitator, I definetely would try out fermenting on the pulp and distill it with the pulp in the thumper. And if I had more than one batch, I would try out both.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Postby Worm_Drippinz » Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:56 pm

Did anybody notice that parsnip wine recipe in the beginning of this thread calls for 4lb of sugar to one gallon of water? :shock:
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Postby wtfdskin » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:59 am

Tomorrows project. Not a good year for apples. Only harvested 16 bushel from my orchard. Going to turn that into ginger brandy. Did manage to collect two buckets of crabapples this year. They always seem to do well no matter the weather. [img]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170113/d18e2e37c43a53b34d10603dfc756a8a.jpg[/img]
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Postby Jimbo » Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:31 am

Cranky, that used barrel should be perfect for your apple brandy. I wouldnt worry too much about whiskey flavors corrupting your brandy. If youre worried, pour a quart of brandy in there and slosh it around a few times for a couple days. That will at least rinse most of the bourbon. Then give it a taste, see if it tastes like it came from Kentucky not from the apples in your yard.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Postby wtfdskin » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:45 am

[img]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170115/4676e28e959b7e5399306911f2fa9326.jpg[/img]
[img]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170115/c7340996e4b54be1db4831af148e278f.jpg[/img]
Production
Last edited by wtfdskin on Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Postby rad14701 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:46 pm

wtfdskin wrote:Production<SNIP>

Tapatalk image links suck...!!! Do your uploads the proper way, directly to the HD server...!!! Figure it out...!!! When you see that your attempts are broken, that's your sign...!!!

I freaking HATE Tapatalk...!!! :evil:
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Postby wtfdskin » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:11 pm

rad14701 wrote:
wtfdskin wrote:Production<SNIP>

Tapatalk image links suck...!!! Do your uploads the proper way, directly to the HD server...!!! Figure it out...!!! When you see that your attempts are broken, that's your sign...!!!

I freaking HATE Tapatalk...!!! :evil:

You know, I've thought a while about how to respond to this and stay within the forum rules, but you know what.......

How about you just calm the fuck down. There is no need to act like that. Get over yourself.

Done.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Postby rad14701 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:50 am

wtfdskin wrote:
rad14701 wrote:
wtfdskin wrote:Production<SNIP>

Tapatalk image links suck...!!! Do your uploads the proper way, directly to the HD server...!!! Figure it out...!!! When you see that your attempts are broken, that's your sign...!!!

I freaking HATE Tapatalk...!!! :evil:

You know, I've thought a while about how to respond to this and stay within the forum rules, but you know what.......

How about you just calm the fuck down. There is no need to act like that. Get over yourself.

Done.

I have every right to my own opinions regarding Tapatalk, an app that leaves advertisements behind with every post made with it, as well as its use of external links which are frowned upon... The folks who are using Tapatalk are making a mess of these forums with messed up links, advertising (which is against forum policies), and expecting those of us who use real computers to overlook its deficiencies because folks feel the need to live on their phones... Prove me wrong... Now, post locally rather than using external links - or continue to make a mess of these forums like you don't even care... I'm not mad at you and don't need to get over myself... Tapatalk is the POS that irks me... The continued use by members merely disappoints me...
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Postby wtfdskin » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:10 am

Yes you do have a right to your opinion as do I to use what works for me. I dont have time to sit in front of a computer. I travel for my work. I will continue to use it until it is not available to this forum. You say we expect you to overlook tapatalks deficiencies yet you expect us tapatalk users to take hours and chain ourselves to a computer.

My point was the way your post was written. Your second post was much more respectful. I have as thick a skin as anyone else. But if you decide to go off like that expect it to come right back at you.

No hard feelings here, we're all grown ups. I dont even post that much for this exact reason. Dont need the bullshit. Life is to busy abd to short for this crap. I mostly read and learn. If i feel i have something to contribute I post. If you dont like my posts block me.

I'm over it. Enjoy your day.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Postby der wo » Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:33 am

I think, the best would be, the mods delete those posts. Including mine.
If not, please wtfdskin repair the pictures.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Postby wtfdskin » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:07 pm

Not a problem der wo. They appeared as working on my device all along. I edited and reupped. If they arent working now the mods can just delete the whole thing. Nothing important anyway. Just wanted to show a simple, cheap, easy to build yet efficient fruit pressing operation. :)
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Postby still_stirrin » Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:30 pm

wtfdskin wrote:...They appeared as working on my device all along. I edited and reupped....Just wanted to show a simple, cheap, easy to build yet efficient fruit pressing operation.

Well, "without pictures...it didn't happen".

You've been advised to post pictures on the HD website because we can't see what you're talking about. And without evidence, it's just hearsay. :thumbdown:
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Postby wtfdskin » Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:38 pm

Then i guess it never happened.
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