SRD and I

Discussions of fruits/ veggies and grains other then just mashing

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SRD and I

Postby Truckinbutch » Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:20 pm

started our adventure in AG today with mixed results . Fresh ground whole corn from our new Corona mill run 3 times . Burned up a 3/8" drill that was 40+ years old . Newer 1/2" drill performed like a champ .
We used PintOShine's protocal from his YouTube video with his enzymes . Not certain of the first 10 gallons of a 20 gallon mash .
Can you use too much iodine to check for starches ? SRD even came up with the same sample cups Pint uses in his video . We sifted our grain grind for enough flour to try to do better tomorrow on the second mash . Gonna regrind the bigger chunks of corn .
The adventure continues . Gonna try for an og reading on the first mash tomorrow after it cools .
We'll keep y'all posted on our progress .
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Re: SRD and I

Postby DSM Loki » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:22 pm

Please do update, this is a plunge I intend to make in the spring when the weather cooperates
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Re: SRD and I

Postby MichiganCornhusker » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:25 pm

Nice to hear!

I usually just use a few drops of iodine, not sure what it would look like in excess.

1/2" drill and multiple passes will work wonders on the corn, looking forward to OG reading.
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Re: SRD and I

Postby goinbroke2 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:23 pm

Amount doesn't matter TB, just need enough so that there is no bits of stuff floating in it which will give a false reading. I used a tea saucer then found out dishes can be stained. "What happened to this dish, looks like the kids used it for painting"? "Yes dear, must of been them damn kids" :lol:

I too use a half inch drill and a SS mortar mixer, water up to temp then pour in some grain while mixing, then add a little at a time. When all in I mix a while longer depending on the grain I'm using. Pour in the enzymes and mix again for awhile then wrap in a blanket and leave overnight.

Corn I leave the burner running low and mix the enzymes longest.

Edit: found the thread where I ruined the saucer, can't cut and paste with this iPad so I ttt the thread so you could read it. It's called barley and rye. (And that was done in the basement in the wintertime with tap water and a bit from the kettle, ag is quite simple once you start doing it)
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Re: SRD and I

Postby Truckinbutch » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:46 pm

Thanks , guys . We are just sharing and learning the dance as we go . We started about 10 in the morning and shut down at 7 in the evening . Cooked high temp at 185-190 for 1 hr 30 min . Cooled to 150 and added low temp and cooked for 1 hr 30 min at 146 to 150 . Never stopped stirring . Couple drops of iodine in a tbs and a half would show black strings and then go clear . 3-4 more drops and it would be totally black . PH read ok between enzymes . Tasted sweet but not what we expected for sweetness .
It's cooling overnight . We will test og in the morning . Gonna grind the next batch finer and use the same mashing protocal .
Ya got to start somewhere and that's where we are right now . We climbed on this horse and we got to make the 8 second whistle .
If you ain't the lead dog in the team , the scenery never changes . Ga Flatwoods made my avatar and I want to thank him for that .
Don't drink water , fish fornicate in it .
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Re: SRD and I

Postby FreeMountainHermit » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:32 pm

Truckinbutch wrote: Cooled to 150


Hey friend. What was your method for cooling ?
Blah, blah, blah,........
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Re: SRD and I

Postby Truckinbutch » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:54 pm

FreeMountainHermit wrote:
Truckinbutch wrote: Cooled to 150


Hey friend. What was your method for cooling ?
Natural convection . Just kept the mixer running in a 65 degree shop and it cooled in short order . We looked at some soft tubing I have with thoughts of a wort chiller . Not certain that would save all that much time . Still in the discussion stage .
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Re: SRD and I

Postby Truckinbutch » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:36 pm

Yesterday's mash was a bit disappointing . OG of 1.036 . The finer grind we mashed today finished at 1.046 . You could taste the difference in sweetness between the two . We combined the two and pitched yeast about an hour ago .
We ground corn even finer today for the next two mashes . Gettin it as fine as possible seems to be the trick for higher conversion .
Set up the fermenter as a trash can inside a trash can . Clear water in the outer barrel and mash in the inner . Aquarium heater will not be in the mash for this ferment . Maybe dave will chime in with what I missed .
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Re: SRD and I

Postby jedneck » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:41 pm

sound like the pair of you are well on your way to haven the hook set even deeper.
welcome aboard some of us are ornery old coots but if you do a lot of
reading and don't ask stupid questions you'll be alright most are
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Re: SRD and I

Postby rgreen2002 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:49 pm

Truckinbutch wrote:We ground corn even finer today for the next two mashes . Gettin it as fine as possible seems to be the trick for higher conversion .



TB... I run my cracked corn through my corona with the grinding stones and it gets it pretty fine (bordering on flour). I do see a better conversion with this. I also will cook my corn up to 200F and cook it longer (around 2 hours). This allows the high heat enzymes to do more work. Might as well get your moneys worth. :mrgreen:

The fine grind and higher heat get me a few extra points on average (like about 0.01-0.03 extra) but I'll take 1.07 over 1.04 just about any day!
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Re: SRD and I

Postby MichiganCornhusker » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:22 pm

How much corn per gallon you guys using?

Don't sweat the OG, it will make a damn fine whiskey.
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Re: SRD and I

Postby BayouShine » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:46 pm

TB, do yall have an automatic stirrer for working with the corn?
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Re: SRD and I

Postby ShineonCrazyDiamond » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:54 pm

I will say this. I use the same brand corn meal every batch, and I gave been recently playing with back set. Same recepie, same procedure, and with 18% backset, I got 1.071. With no backset, replaced with water, I got 1.06. Go figure. However, since the winter dropped in, I have been fighting ph crashes. So, it's a trade off using backset. Better sg in summer, too. The corn soaks at 190, as opposed to winters 180.
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Re: SRD and I

Postby Truckinbutch » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:15 pm

MichiganCornhusker wrote:How much corn per gallon you guys using?

Don't sweat the OG, it will make a damn fine whiskey.
15# corn to 11.5 gallons of water . That's all we can stir in our 15 gallon ss pot . We aren't disappointed with the first 2 mashes . Like the rest of the hobby , it's an adventure .
If you ain't the lead dog in the team , the scenery never changes . Ga Flatwoods made my avatar and I want to thank him for that .
Don't drink water , fish fornicate in it .
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Re: SRD and I

Postby Truckinbutch » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:26 pm

BayouShine wrote:TB, do yall have an automatic stirrer for working with the corn?
I bought a pawn shop 1/2" drill with a brush driven motor . We carved a socket in a pine 2x8 to mount it in on a stand and attached a paddle mixer for stirring . We use a router speed control to regulate drill rotation . There's a picture of it . I think it's over on 'The Liar's Bench' .
If we had had more foresight we would have started a construction thread along with this thread . As it is , we got info scattered all over the board .
If you ain't the lead dog in the team , the scenery never changes . Ga Flatwoods made my avatar and I want to thank him for that .
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Re: SRD and I

Postby BayouShine » Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:10 pm

An automatic stirrer is a must have for corn heavy recipes, that's for sure!

Since you guys are playing with this all corn recipe, may I add a suggestion to the list of things to try?

I know I'm not the only one on the board that does this, but next time try adding your enzymes in steps. The way I do it is to bring the water to a boil, cut the heat and add my cornmeal without enzymes going in first. Once the corn gels to the point the stirrer can't keep it moving, add HALF of the regular dose of HT enzyme to break it up. Your temp should still be 180*+. Keep the stirrer going for another 30 minutes. When the temp is under 175*, add the second half of the HT enzyme, then let it cool down as you have been.

I haven't cooked a cornmeal mash over 30-40 minutes in over a year. Doing it this way, the SG has been consistently 1.07 @ 2lb/gal.

Not saying this is the right way or wrong way, just what I've been doing.

If you decide to add malted grains to the mix, mash them in normally, then try adding the SebAmyl in AFTER the grains and at 140* or less. In my opinion, this "cleans up" what the malt enzymes miss.

Just food for thought. Playing with the protocols are half the fun.

edit: Forgot to add that I'm mashing 2lb/gal on my cornmeal.
Last edited by BayouShine on Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SRD and I

Postby seamusm53 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:14 pm

The iodine test is a qualitative not quantitative test so it should be fairly forgiving re: how much to add. But one gingerly adds the iodine to a spoonful or so of mash and looking quickly for the instantaneous creation of a deep blue color. If present there is starch present. If not the natural brownish color of iodine is seen. I guess overwhelming the mash sample with iodine could confuse the test but one can experiment with any starch in water (corn starch, flour, etc) to learn what to expect from a positive (blue) reaction. Truly only a drop of iodine is needed.
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Re: SRD and I

Postby Truckinbutch » Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:52 pm

BayouShine wrote:An automatic stirrer is a must have for corn heavy recipes, that's for sure!

Since you guys are playing with this all corn recipe, may I add a suggestion to the list of things to try?

I know I'm not the only one on the board that does this, but next time try adding your enzymes in steps. The way I do it is to bring the water to a boil, cut the heat and add my cornmeal without enzymes going in first. Once the corn gels to the point the stirrer can't keep it moving, add HALF of the regular dose of HT enzyme to break it up. Your temp should still be 180*+. Keep the stirrer going for another 30 minutes. When the temp is under 175*, add the second half of the HT enzyme, then let it cool down as you have been.

I haven't cooked a cornmeal mash over 30-40 minutes in over a year. Doing it this way, the SG has been consistently 1.07.

Not saying this is the right way or wrong way, just what I've been doing.

If you decide to add malted grains to the mix, mash them in normally, then try adding the SebAmyl in AFTER the grains and at 140* or less. In my opinion, this "cleans up" what the malt enzymes miss.

Just food for thought. Playing with the protocols are half the fun.
I may contact you via PM if that's OK to refine this info and then share it back here . You seriously got my attention and other folks as well , I'm sure
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Re: SRD and I

Postby BayouShine » Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:57 pm

No problem at all.
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Re: SRD and I

Postby Truckinbutch » Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:57 pm

seamusm53 wrote:The iodine test is a qualitative not quantitative test so it should be fairly forgiving re: how much to add. But one gingerly adds the iodine to a spoonful or so of mash and looking quickly for the instantaneous creation of a deep blue color. If present there is starch present. If not the natural brownish color of iodine is seen. I guess overwhelming the mash sample with iodine could confuse the test but one can experiment with any starch in water (corn starch, flour, etc) to learn what to expect from a positive (blue) reaction. Truly only a drop of iodine is needed.
Appreciate that input . Doing it in real time for the first time leaves you with not knowing what to expect . Ya got to earn experience .
If you ain't the lead dog in the team , the scenery never changes . Ga Flatwoods made my avatar and I want to thank him for that .
Don't drink water , fish fornicate in it .
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Re: SRD and I

Postby jedneck » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:01 pm

1.036 ain't bad for 15#in 11 gallons. if ya ask me :thumbup:
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Re: SRD and I

Postby DAD300 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:02 pm

Tb, you were light on the corn. I use two pounds per gallon on everything except sugar.

I've posted here before that I do it as lazy as possible.

Boil water, turn heat down, start mixer and start adding grain. keep temp under 200F til all grain is in and turn off heat. Mix occasionally until reaches 185 and add HLT. MIx for ten minutes and cover. Wait for drop to 155F (3-4 hours) and add the enzyme. Stir for ten minutes and cover for the night. Next morning, if at 85F or below add DADY with a light stir.

At 2 pounds per gallon I get ~1.07 every time.
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Re: SRD and I

Postby Truckinbutch » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:09 pm

BayouShine wrote:No problem at all.
I just reread what I posted to you and felt like a dick . What I meant was that sometimes I gotta write things on my hand and read them back to me several times to grasp the full import .
What I would bring back to this forum would be a better understanding of everything you are telling us and fully crediting you with this input .
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Re: SRD and I

Postby BayouShine » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:17 pm

Truckinbutch wrote:I just reread what I posted to you and felt like a dick . What I meant was that sometimes I gotta write things on my hand and read them back to me several times to grasp the full import .
What I would bring back to this forum would be a better understanding of everything you are telling us and fully crediting you with this input .


I got what you were trying to say. We're all good here!
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Re: SRD and I

Postby Truckinbutch » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:25 pm

BayouShine wrote:
Truckinbutch wrote:I just reread what I posted to you and felt like a dick . What I meant was that sometimes I gotta write things on my hand and read them back to me several times to grasp the full import .
What I would bring back to this forum would be a better understanding of everything you are telling us and fully crediting you with this input .


I got what you were trying to say. We're all good here!
:thumbup:
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Re: SRD and I

Postby MichiganCornhusker » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:24 am

I also use 2# corn per gallon and do the lazy man's mash.

Ive read that corn has a ppg of around .30 so 15# in 11 gallons might only get you up around 1.040 OG at best, no matter how much you grind it or cook it, so I think you guys are doing great.

I know you are focused on learning the mash, but it might not be too soon to start trying your hand at malting a couple buckets of corn... :D
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Re: SRD and I

Postby spirit run dave » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:08 am

Couldn't get on last night,had the honey do list.although by reading seems like we are on the right path.
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Re: SRD and I

Postby FreeMountainHermit » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:13 am

MichiganCornhusker wrote:
I know you are focused on learning the mash, but it might not be too soon to start trying your hand at malting a couple buckets of corn... :D


Great thread if I may inject it here:

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=55381
Blah, blah, blah,........
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Re: SRD and I

Postby MichiganCornhusker » Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:44 am

Truckinbutch wrote:15# corn to 11.5 gallons of water . That's all we can stir in our 15 gallon ss pot .

You can always do a thicker mash and water it down after.

I usually do 10# to 12# with 4 gallons water in a 5 gallon bucket. After mashing I water it down to SG 1.065ish for fermenting. That way I can do more with less mash space. I wouldn't want to do this trick without liquid enzymes though.

In your case you might be able to do something like 22# and 8 gallons water in your pot and water down in fermenter to adjust OG.
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Re: SRD and I

Postby spirit run dave » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:48 am

Sounds like the key we been looking for is as simple as adding more corn.
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