Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

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wineo
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Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by wineo » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:43 pm

Moderator edit: This is an edited version of this recipe. The original version which is available as a normal discussion thread can be found here - http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =14&t=6782" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow .

I have been working on a simple recipe for a neutral sugar wash without a bunch of extra stuff in it to cause flavors,and this is it.Its real simple.
This is for a 6 gallon wash.
8 pounds of sugar{dissolved in hot water}
1 tsp of citric acid
1 tsp of DAP
1 tsp of gypsum{You can get this from a beermaking supplier}
A pinch of epsom salts{Less than 1/8 of a tsp}
1/4 cup of distillers yeast,or 1/2 cup of bakers yeast{sprinkled on top}
Dissolve your sugar in hot water and mix until its dissolved real good.
Add the DAP,gypsum, acid and epsom salts,and stir until its all dissolved.
Add this to your fermenter,and add enough cool water to make 6 gallons.
The starting SG should be 1070-1080SG.Dont go over 1080SG for best results.
Check the temp,and once its 95f or under,sprinkle the yeast on top.
After 15-20 minutes,give it a good stir to mix things up,and get some air mixed in.You can cover the fermenter with a cloth,or use an airlock.
Depending on the fermenting temp,this will work off in a week or two.
Dont rush it.Let it finish to dryness,and give it another week to clear before running it.
I potstill this wash.It is very neutral,and very clean.It will make a clean neutral,potstilled or refluxed.
By using a large amount of yeast,You dont have to add a bunch of extra neutrents and additives to get it to work,and the less stuff you add,the less it will influence flavors.
All you novice distillers using turbo yeast out there,Try this,and you will be done with turbos,carbon filtering,Etc.

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by EuroStiller » Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:22 am

Wineo

Excellent, another simple sugar wash! I will have to add it to the collection and try it soon! I thank you Sir! I've been using Birdwatcher's successfully, although I have tweaked it some. The tomato paste threw me from the beginning, LOL I do have two questions for you. I'm trying to understand how it comes to pass that you have included calcium sulphate CaSO4(gypsum) in this formula. I see the amount is minimal in 6 gallons. Is it do to some hard water issue, or are you using it in addition to the H9N2O4P (DAP) as an additional nutrient, or to counterbalance the harshness of the ammonium in the DAP on the yeast? Second question: Where do you draw your water from? I should say, are you using well water, spring water, distilled, etc. I have city water coming into the house; however, before it goes to most of the plumbing it goes through reverse osmosis filtration. While this is extremely nice, I don't know if it is good for making sugar washes. I also have access to a well, as my house is just that old. I did have the water tested a while back, came back ok. I would still boil it before I drank it! As far as other water goes, I watch the papers and see what’s on sale and stock up. I've been sticking to spring water or distilled water. I know water is a huge component in any good wash. Any pearls you can throw will be gladly accepted!

Thanks in Advance

EuroStiller- The Doctor

wineo
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by wineo » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:37 am

Im using the city water supply.We had a brewery here for over 100 years so the water must be ok.
I use the gypsum to give the water a little hardness because the yeast likes the extra calsium ions.Ive tried it with and without it,and it works better with it in small amounts.I have found that the less stuff you put in a neutral wash,the better.Its just less stuff to add flavors.Its the most neutral wash that I can come up with.As with any neutral wash,make sure its good and cleared before running it.Having yeast in it will produce some esters.

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by EuroStiller » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:43 am

Wineo

You should start charging consultation fees like I do, LOL. One more question for you on your wash. Compared to Birdwatcher's, is it a heavy fizzer/ fermenter or is like a turbo (which I have never used but only heard about)? Curious because I want to try your wash and I wanted to know if I can get away with a 6.5 Gallon carboy, or if I should break out the brewpail!
Sorry to be a pest! Yikes, lunch is almost over. I gotta get my posterior back to work!

Thanks in Advance!!!
EuroStiller- The Doctor

wineo
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by wineo » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:14 am

Just leave some headspace for 3-4 days so it doesnt foam over.Its pretty vigorious for the first 4 days.The bucket method is safer.My last one got dogs heads on it at about 3 days.They died down after 5 days,but My fermenter temp was 65f.Warmer temps may make it pretty active.

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by Asohosy » Tue May 06, 2008 10:14 am

wineo

I had done something similar which is just water, sugar, yeast nutrients, and yeast. When done properly even the wash taste really good. I was tempted to drink it in a wine glass.

Just have one question:

Why do you add citric acid to lower the PH and then gypsum to raise the PH. Aren't those 2 ingredients added strictly to adjust PH or am I mistaken.

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by wineo » Tue May 06, 2008 12:19 pm

I use the citric to lower the ph,and use the gypsum to give the water a little hardness{calsium}because the yeast likes the stuff.

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by wineo » Wed May 07, 2008 8:43 pm

This wash is about as neutral as it gets,and I potstill it.It has very little taste and smell,even the forshots.
Me,and a friend have potstilled it up to 2 times and didnt go any farther because it didnt change much from the first run.It should be great for refluxing.
I plan on saving a bunch of it up this summer,and potstilling it 4 times,just for the hell of it.Its the cleanest thing I have ever had,so far.The quest continues. :lol:

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by wineo » Mon May 19, 2008 11:52 am

Just a note on this sugar wash.I started a new one tuesday night,but used more yeast.
I used 1 cup of bakers yeast in 6 gallons of 1070SG wash with the same amounts of everything else.It fermented to 1000Sg in 4 days and is past 990 today.Im going to rack it tuesday,and let it clear for a week.Im going to start another one with the same yeast.

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by theholymackerel » Mon May 19, 2008 12:29 pm

Is that much yeast actually needed for this recipe?

I have little experience with sugarhead. I've only ran it helpin' out friends learn new stills.

So, is that much yeast necessary? How does a half-cup, or a cup of bakers yeast compair to say, 3 tablespoons of bakers yeast in a 6 gallon wash?

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by wineo » Mon May 19, 2008 12:56 pm

A cup of yeast isnt nessasary,but does speed up the fermentation time.Kinda like a homeade turbo without the bad flavors.The 3 tablespoons method will work with extra neutrents added as long as the gravity isnt too high,but the extra neutrents also add flavors.
By using a 1/4 cup of distillers,or a 1/2 cup of bakers yeast,You can keep the added neutrents to a minimum which will make a cleaner wash.Some of the yeast always dies in the wash,and add the needed neutrents for the cells that survive.
The 1 cup per 6 gallons Just works faster.I will let you all know if there is any flavor difference.Ive been buying bakers yeast for $2.19 a pound so its only about .60 cents worth of yeast,and I plan on using over and over also.
Im always monkeying around with things.Ive learned alot that way.

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by theholymackerel » Mon May 19, 2008 1:06 pm

So, in brewer's terms, it's like gettin' a HUGE starter goin', or pitchin' back on the yeast cake?

Humm...

I see the point, but I'm cheap and I believe I'd just let the first ferment take a bit longer and use less yeast the first iteration, and pitch back on the yeast cake for succesive batches.

I do see the point though. Alot of folks don't have an open schedule like me... they gotta plan their stillin' time ahead of time.

I don't like sugarhead, but I'm gonna give yer recipe a try wineo. I'm curious.

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by jdonly1 » Mon May 19, 2008 7:42 pm

Is it dried bakers yeast you are using or is it the fresh stuff :?: :?:

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by wineo » Mon May 19, 2008 7:46 pm

Its the dried stuff.SAF instant is what Im using now.I also have some red star,but havent used it on this recipe yet.

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by HookLine » Tue May 20, 2008 4:10 am

jdonly1 wrote:Is gypson the stuff they sell to break down clay????
Yup. Gypsum is calcium sulphate, it is used as both a fertiliser and soil conditioner. It is also what plasterboard (called Gyprock in Oz) is made from.
Be safe.
Be discreet.
And have fun.

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by wineo » Tue May 20, 2008 8:32 am

You can find citric acid anywhere that sells canning jars and supplys.Lemon juice will work,but it will flavor the wash some,and it wont be as clean.Use the citric.
Gypsum is sold at most brewshops over here,but the other stuff will work.Just make sure to read the lable to make sure its just gypsum with nothing added.

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by jdonly1 » Thu May 22, 2008 8:45 pm

What is the best way to clear this???

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by Dnderhead » Thu May 22, 2008 9:05 pm

I would say as any wash 1) what till it is don 2) stir to remove carbonation 3) place in cool place and Waite

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by wineo » Fri May 23, 2008 7:18 am

The bakers yeast doesnt clear as fast as the distiller yeast,but they will usually clear by themselfs in a week or so.
Like Dunderhead said,degassing it once its done will speed things up alot.It also helps to rack it off the yeast sediment.
I let mine clear for 4-5 days,and rack it into a clean container,and leave it for a few more days.It will clear fast after racking.
I have one clearing now that I started on the 15th.Its been done for a few days.I will rack it tonight,and let it set till tuesday when I will run 1/2 of it.

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by wineo » Tue May 27, 2008 10:11 am

The distillers yeast did great on it.I have a batch made with SAF instant bread yeast loaded in the boiler now.I will run it tonight and let you know how it compared.The only drawback with the bakers yeast is that it doesnt clear as easy as the distillers yeast.I let mine set for a week to settle,and racked 1/2 of it in the boiler,and the other half in buckets to settle until next week.The clearer you can get it,the better.I started my fermenter back up with the same recipe,and the same yeast.I will let it set longer,since I still have lots of stuff in the works to run.I always run everything pretty slow,so we will see if mine is yeasty or not.Its destined to get ran again anyway.Im saving it up for a big 2nd run before it gets too hot to run.

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by Dnderhead » Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:35 am

another reason that some recipes call for so much yeast ,is to help prevent infections ,yeast gits a good start before anything else can

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by wineo » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:07 pm

I have made these washes with alot of different variations,and I will try to break it down for you all.
Raw sugar gives a little rum flavor,and a little more heads and tails.
Molassus{one jar of grandmas} and raw sugar makes a nice white rum.
White sugar and a jar of molassus also makes a nice lite rum.
All brown sugar,and 2 jars of molassus makes a real nice light white rum.Even better if oaked.
Keep the gravity low on all of these,and if using molassus,cut back on the sugar some.
Now,that we have that covered,lets talk yeast.If your looking for any rum flavor,always use bakers yeast for the best flavors.
If you want the cleanest neutral,with as little flavor as possable,use the distillers yeast.It makes the cleanest version of this recipe,by far.
Make sure to clear it real good before running,because any yeast in the boiler,will cause more bad esters.{flavors} :mrgreen:

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by wineo » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:10 pm

I havent been around for quite a while,but Im here now! One thing that can cause your problem is the PH of your water,BEFORE you make any adjustments.My measurements were all based on my water,and my waters PH is 7.0.Either your water has a lower PH,and adding the citric acid makes the PH go so low,that the yeast wont get going,or its PH is way high,and the amount of citric acid is not dropping it enough.Find out what Your water PH is,and adjust it to around 5.2.It will still ferment lower,but The more acidic the wash,the more it will react with the copper in your still.I have had the cleanest runs in the 5 PH range.
I hope this helped!

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by rad14701 » Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:21 pm

dropping_planets wrote:
rad14701 wrote: I generally aerate every 10 - 15 minutes for at least an hour after pitching my yeast because once a boundary layer of CO2 builds above the wash there is no way for new O2 to enter... Aerating displaces the CO2 and introduces additional O2 into the wash, thus extending the aerobic phase and allowing more yeast to multiply before settling in for the anaerobic phase...
mr. rad....used this technique for the first time yesterday.....will this dramatically increase the time the wash takes to start producing CO2....?
I've found that it speeds the entire process because the number of yeast are maximized sooner and then they deplete to O2 and progress through the subsequent phases sooner and quicker... It sure can't hurt... My washes are going like crazy by the time I install the airlock which bubbles like a machine gun... What I can attest to is that I don't get 36 hour ferments with bakers yeast without the extra aeration... Shortening aeration time can add days, not hours, to a ferment... That's been my recent experience, anyway...

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by rad14701 » Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:07 pm

bstinga wrote:Have yet to try this recipe but by all accounts is the bee's knees. Just wondering about vitamin B, I see there is none used and obviously works great without it. Would the addition of some help fermentation or is this an unnecessary extra which would add flavour - which of course this recipe is trying to minimise? Just though being a processed sugar wash there is probably very little of the 'goodness' of molasis. Just been reading some old info i had re Dr Cones yeast experiments and he is big on the old vitamin B.

Cheers.
Adding B vitamins may very well help the fermentation process but shouldn't impart any flavor characteristics... You'll find that many recipes only list what ingredients it has taken to make for an efficient ferment... That doesn't mean that there isn't room for improvement, however... Give the B vitamins a try and report back if you are so inclined... Side by side batches with and without would help provide a proven comparison for all... That's how the craft, and recipes, progress...

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by rad14701 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:55 pm

VicBill wrote:I add a dissolved multi-vitamin B tablet to my sugar washes. Every now and then I forget about them and fermentation is much slower. I can notice the difference within a couple of hours of starting. The funny thing is that adding the vitamin b 24+ hours later (cause I forgot) does not seem to speed up the fermentation.
That is because the B vitamins are most important during the aerobic multiplication phase and help little during the anaerobic fermentation phase...

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Peacock Post

Post by Annolyx » Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:56 pm

This is a summary of this thread. Searching for subject "peacock post" should bring it up rather easily. I have found myself searching through the tread for certain information from time to time so this is an attempt to make it a little easier. All information comes from the man himself! Thanks Wineo!

I have been working on a simple recipe for a neutral sugar wash without a bunch of extra stuff in it to cause flavors, and this is it. It’s real simple.
This is for a 6 gallon wash.
8 pounds of sugar{dissolved in hot water}
1 tsp of citric acid
1 tsp of DAP (Just Diammonium Phosphate, not “yeast nutrients!”) Stay away from urea etc.
1 tsp of gypsum{You can get this from a beer making supplier}
A pinch of Epsom salts{Less than 1/8 of a tsp}
1/4 cup of distillers yeast, or 1/2 cup of baker’s yeast{sprinkled on top}
Dissolve your sugar in hot water and mix until its dissolved real good.
Add the DAP, gypsum, acid and Epsom salts, and stir until it’s all dissolved.
Add this to your fermenter, and add enough cool water to make 6 gallons.
The starting SG should be 1070-1080SG.Dont go over 1080SG for best results.
Check the temp, and once its 95f or under, sprinkle the yeast on top.
After 15-20 minutes, give it a good stir to mix things up, and get some air mixed in. You can cover the fermentor with a cloth, or use an airlock.
Depending on the fermenting temp, this will work off in a week or two.
Don’t rush it. Let it finish to dryness, and give it another week to clear before running it.
I potstill this wash. It is very neutral, and very clean. It will make a clean neutral, potstilled or refluxed.
By using a large amount of yeast, you don’t have to add a bunch of extra nutrients and additives to get it to work, and the less stuff you add, the less it will influence flavors.
All you novice distillers using turbo yeast out there, Try this, and you will be done with turbos, carbon filtering, Etc.

So, how do YOU do it?
I add the acid to a cooled down wash. I usually add everything else to the hot sugar water mix, and add cool water to cool it down before adding acid, and yeast. I wouldn’t pinch your yeast any warmer than 80f for best results, and try to keep the sg lower than 1080. At 1060SG, it works real well. As far as PH goes, anywhere between 5.0-6.0 is good.

Just a note on this sugar wash.

I started a new one Tuesday night, but used more yeast.
I used 1 cup of baker’s yeast in 6 gallons of 1070SG wash with the same amounts of everything else. It fermented to 1000Sg in 4 days and is past 990 today. I’m going to rack it Tuesday, and then let it clear for a week. I’m going to start another one with the same yeast.
Is that much yeast actually needed for this recipe? I have little experience with sugar head. I've only ran it helping' out friends learn new stills. So, is that much yeast necessary? How does a half-cup, or a cup of baker’s yeast compare to say, 3 tablespoons of baker’s yeast in a 6 gallon wash?

A cup of yeast isn’t necessary, but does speed up the fermentation time. Kind of like a homemade turbo without the bad flavors. The 3 tablespoons method will work with extra nutrients added as long as the gravity isn’t too high, but the extra nutrients also add flavors.
By using a 1/4 cup of distillers, or a 1/2 cup of baker’s yeast, you can keep the added nutrients to a minimum which will make a cleaner wash. Some of the yeast always dies in the wash, and add the needed nutrients for the cells that survive.
The 1 cup per 6 gallons just works faster. I will let you all know if there is any flavor difference. I’ve been buying baker’s yeast for $2.19 a pound so it’s only about .60 cents worth of yeast, and I plan on using over and over also.
I’m always monkeying around with things; I've learned a lot that way.


What’s the best way to clear?

The baker’s yeast doesn’t clear as fast as the distiller yeast, but they will usually clear by themselves in a week or so.
Like Dunderhead said, degassing it once it’s done will speed things up alot. It also helps to rack it off the yeast sediment.
I let mine clear for 4-5 days, and rack it into a clean container, and leave it for a few more days. It will clear fast after racking.
I have one clearing now that I started on the 15th.Its been done for a few days. I will rack it tonight, and let it set till Tuesday when I will run 1/2 of it.
**The distillers yeast did great on it. I have a batch made with SAF instant bread yeast loaded in the boiler now. I will run it tonight and let you know how it compared. The only drawback with the baker’s yeast is that it doesn’t clear as easy as the distillers yeast. I let mine set for a week to settle and racked 1/2 of it in the boiler, and the other half in buckets to settle until next week. The clearer you can get it, the better. I started my fermentor back up with the same recipe, and the same yeast. I will let it set longer, since I still have lots of stuff in the works to run. I always run everything pretty slow, so we will see if mine is yeasty or not. It’s destined to get ran again anyway. Im saving it up for a big 2nd run before it gets too hot to run.

** Once the fermentation slows way down, wait for a week, and rack it to a clean container, making sure to splash it quite a bit, while racking, and make sure to leave the sediment behind when racking. It should clear pretty fast, once you have done this.

Opinions on different yeasts?

I have ran quite a few of these washes now with different yeasts, and IMO, the superstart distillers yeast is the most neutral, and clears out faster than the bakers yeast. I used the SAF instant baker’s yeast, and I have one going now with red star, but I don’t expect it to be different than the SAF.I have been potstilling all of these, so if you’re using a reflux, you probably won’t see much difference in flavors. It does make a big difference clearing the wash of most of the yeast, as it comes out allot cleaner because of less ester production. Im saving all this neutral up for a 12 gallon spirit run

Length of clearing?

Clearing it for a month isn’t going to hurt anything, but it is slow. Racking it a few times over a week or so should speed it up a lot. It doesn’t have to be super clear to run it, but clearer=cleaner with any of the neutrals, or vodka runs. I have let some of my washes set for months, after being racked a few times simply because I couldn’t get around to running them. When it gets too hot around here to do a run, I will probably have allot of wash clearing for a month. At least it will be good and clear when I get around to it.

What if I’m making a larger batch? after many runs, have you picked a favorite yeast?

Using quite a bit of yeast is the key to success when fermenting plain sugar like this recipe. It’s my understanding that 1118 is a killer strain of yeast, and if mixed with other strains, It will kill them, so you might not want to mix it. With baker’s yeast, you would want to use the correct amount, or it will be real slow. If you’re doing allot of this recipe, like I do, don’t skimp on the yeast. I have got the best results from using Crosby+Bakers superstart distillers yeast. It is a little cleaner than the baker’s yeast, and it clears faster, and ferments faster also. I make it 26 gallons at a time in a 30 gallon Rubbermaid can.
I use a cup of distillers yeast. When using the red star, or the SAF,I use a pound of the stuff.{4 cups}It only cost 2.12 a pound, and always does the job, but it takes allot longer to clear. The degassing helps a bunch. Get some distillers yeast. You won’t be sorry. Its $ 8.00 a pound, but that will do 4 large batches for 2 bucks a batch. You can also reuse it over and over. The baker’s yeast won’t let you do that without adding more.

Any info on reusing the Distillers yeast?

It does well, just save what’s on the bottom, pour it in a gallon jug, add some PHd water, and add some sugar. When the starter gets done, drain most of the liquid, and start it again. You will have one hell of a starter. I’ve reused it 3-4 times on sugar washes and rum. Just stay under 1080SG for best results

Is it necessary to stir the wash?
I usually stir mine in the first 24 hours to mix up everything, but it’s not really required.

How do you feel about baking soda?
Doing some bicarb on an already stripped spirit run should clean it up a little more. I have a friend that refluxes this stuff to 85% in one run, and it’s awful clean, but cleaner can’t hurt. I potstill it till I have 12 gallons, making cuts on every run, then potstill all 12 gallons, making more cuts. It tastes like water, almost. It gets even better if you go for the xxx run. Most people stop there, but the xxxx run will set you free!

I have made these washes with allot of different variations, and I will try to break it down for you all.

Raw sugar gives a little rum flavor, and a little more heads and tails.
Molasses {one jar of grandmas} and raw sugar makes nice white rum.
White sugar and a jar of molasses also make nice light rum.
All brown sugar and 2 jars of molasses make real nice light white rum. Even better if oaked.
Keep the gravity low on all of these, and if using molasses, cut back on the sugar some.
Now, that we have that covered, let’s talk yeast. If you’re looking for any rum flavor, always use baker’s yeast for the best flavors.
If you want the cleanest neutral, with as little flavor as possible, use the distillers yeast. It makes the cleanest version of this recipe, by far. Make sure to clear it real good before running, because any yeast in the boiler, will cause more bad esters. {Flavors}

You ever get that XXXX run done?
I did finally do a XXXX run on this recipe. It’s mighty fine!
-Anno

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by Dnderhead » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:48 am

the head/cap. or whatever you want to call it. is trub,bits of what ever is in wash/mash
that is hitching a ride on co2, so it goes to the top then if it looses the co2 when it gits to
the top the it sinks again just to repeat.then when the ferment slows down they tend to settle
to the bottom.when ferment stops completely all will settle to bottom.

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by Mangler20 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:47 am

Wineo,

Any chance you could help me scale this recipe to 7 gallons?

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Post by Dnderhead » Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:46 am

just divide the amount of ingredient by the amount of wash, 8lb sugar/ 6 gallon wash= 1.3 lb sugar.per gal.then if you want 7 gal. then multiply the amount wash you want(7)X 1.3=9.1lb sugar
you could do this for each ingredient,but i dont thank its necessary.

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