Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by Saltbush Bill » Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:39 am

30-35 is a better temp to run this wash...as stated in the very first post of this thread ...run at these temps it should ferment fully within 7-8 days

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by 758759754 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:39 am

But is there any truth to a slightly cooler temperature providing a better ferment (as in cleaner, crisper, clearer, etc.)?

Going to check the wash, will edit on return.

EDIT:
Well wrapping it with a blanket had a very small effect. Might need a larger heat source, that is also easier in controlling.

Interestingly it has started to clear, I've just noticed right now especially, but the last little bit has been having slight changes. This mean anything?
Last edited by 758759754 on Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by timmsy » Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:56 pm

Well guys i put down 5 x 25ltr washes on the weekend.

2 washes were
5kgs sugar
lemon juice
epson salts
tomatoe paste
bakers yeast

3 washes were
6kgs dextrose
salts
lemon juice
wyeast yeast nutriant
bakers yeast

All 5 are bubbling away real nice. That should get some of my stocks up when done

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by rad14701 » Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:07 pm

With an OG of 1.110 and a FG of 1.008 you have ~13.2% ABV... But considering how Birdwatchers usually finishes below 1.000 your yeast colony may have become stressed and stalled or died... It'll probably run fine either way, if it's done, without much if any foaming... If it's done, run it...

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by Bushman » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:06 pm

eyeless wrote:I know my ABV is on the low side, but always figured it would result in a cleaner product..........with WPOSW stalling out on me I never did want to go higher...........with this next ferment I think I will step it up a little........I am thinking I would be fine in the 12kg range, going to set a batch tonight, might just go for it and do a 12kg batch should put me in the 1.075 or 10% range correct?
If you want to get a fairly close estimate on the parent site under washes, there is a calculator for figuring out how much water to sugar you need to reach a certain percent ABV. I usually shoot for the 12% range!

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by rad14701 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:22 pm

I always try to get recipes to perform well up to 14% and have done so with this one with only minor tweaking... In fact, I've gone even higher by accident and it still fermented cleanly to dry and produced clean neutral spirits... I have two separate ~14% batches going right now with tweaks in an effort to get a clean 7 day or less ferment... One batch was started on the 28th and the other on the 30th so we'll see what the beginning of the week brings...

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by Dnderhead » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:28 pm

testing with a hydrometer,is affected with whatever is in wash,any trub/co2/other can alter the reading.
you can take a reading while fermenting this will give you a idea if its working or not.but it wont be accurate..
true readings can only be taken on clear wash.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by maheel » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:43 pm

admin4 wrote:Thanks for the quick response. Sounds good to me. Any opinion re; SG testing in the tub vs in a test cylinder? There's at least one thread herein that says tub testing is a no no, but doesn't say why.
yeah you can, in beer making it's a BIG NO NO as you can induce infection pretty easy

just give your hydro a nice wash

but in BW if you lift the lid a few hours later it should be growing a big crop of yeast foam on top and you know it's working and no need to test with hydro really
by about day 4 mine settle down just to a fizzing away while working
by day 7 -10 i just float the hydro in the tub to see if it needs anything like some heat to get it to 990

after say 5 days if it's visibly working there will be enough ALC and CO2 to pretty much keep itself from getting infected to test "near risk free"

then maybe before i run it, often a few weeks later to let it clear i chuck the hydro in to check it's at 990

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by Bushman » Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:34 am

Skozzy wrote:Hi, very new to all this, have got a smart still at the moment. Had a go with the recipe, 21l water, 5k sugar, half teaspoon Epsom salts, 2 lemons, 250g toms paste, and 75g bakers yeast. Had a start reading of 1.080 , on 20/11/11. It's been now 4 weeks, reading now shows 1.010. Help would be great, do I still leave it longer, or rack into another bucket and leave longer, was hoping that I could of completed it before Christmas.
Thanks
Steve
Look at it, does it still look active? When mine is done it clears on top, 4 weeks she is probably about done I would put it in a cool place for a day and let things settle then rack.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by maheel » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:00 pm

Skozzy wrote:Thanks maheel for your reply
It tastes fairly sweet, temp is 15'c, and Hydro read in 20'c is 1.000
Thanks

if that water temp is 15'c in the wash your trying to ferment i would say the yeast is pretty much asleep and it is to cold for them

warm it up to say about 28'C -> 30"c and give it a stir

now you no the hydro is working about right

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by GuessX » Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:26 am

seaguy wrote:No prob. Many wine makers say to stir daily (Google Jack Keller) and they start out with a whole lot less yeast. The remaining live yeast use the dead yeast stirred up from the bottom. I wouldn't stir anymore though. Time to allow to clear.
Cheers.
When you say clear, you mean getting rid of the red tinge from tomato paste? I put on a second batch last night and noticed that it was significantly clearer than my second batch.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by maheel » Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:21 pm

GuessX wrote:
seaguy wrote:No prob. Many wine makers say to stir daily (Google Jack Keller) and they start out with a whole lot less yeast. The remaining live yeast use the dead yeast stirred up from the bottom. I wouldn't stir anymore though. Time to allow to clear.
Cheers.
When you say clear, you mean getting rid of the red tinge from tomato paste? I put on a second batch last night and noticed that it was significantly clearer than my second batch.

by clear he means clearing the wash, letting it settle a few days so all the yeast and solids fall to the bottom.

i often leave mine for weeks and it clears out to nearly clear liquid (with a pink / red tinge) leaving a thick sludge compacted on the bottom

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by seaguy » Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:22 pm

This is true. When you rack ( siphon) ease the tube (taped to a clean stick 1/2" up from the end)down to the bottom with only vertical movement. Don't want to disturb the lees (crud) :mrgreen: It's no big deal if a little gets in the boiler. It just makes cleanup easier if less gets in there.
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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by maheel » Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:41 pm

GuessX wrote: I assume all the crap at the bottom is left out of the still.

thats a BIG YES. dont tip the yeast cake into your still... your WAY!! better off with out the sludge

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by Fastill » Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:51 am

Skozzy wrote:
Skozzy wrote:
Bushman wrote:
Skozzy wrote:Well finally ran it, it's coming out now at 60proof, binned the first 100ml, will keep the next 800ml, then start again with the next 4litres. It's got a few tiny bits in it, anything to worry about? Will it be safe to drink? Looks fairly clear.
Thanks
Can you elaborate on the bits (is it from the squeezed lemon)? Are you running it through a pot still?
Thanks bushman, using a smart still,just tiny black bits, dont know what it is
Also it's left a darkish stain on the collecting jug
Either your still was dirty or the wash puked, Nothing solid or colored should come out of your still.
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My first Birdwatchers

Post by Ben Dripn » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:14 pm

Hi Guys, this will be the 1st run through my VM still and wanted share this. This is my quarter split of Birdwatchers sugar wash:

5- gallons of Artesian well water
1- 6 oz can of organic tomato paste
10- lbs of sugar
1- Tsp of citric acid
48- grams of yeast

Poured 2.5 gallons of water into a 6 gallon carboy,
Used about 2 gallons of water to heat and dislove 10lbs of sugar, 6 oz of tomato paste, and citric acid.
used the remaining .5 gallons of water to get my SG right at 1.07
I then added 4 packet of Red Star Pasteur Champagne Yeast (5 grams ea.)
Added 1 pack of Red Star Quick Rise Instant Dry Yeast (7 grams)
Added 3 packs of Fleischmans RapidRise Highly Active Yeast (7 grams ea.)

If you quarter the original recipe, for yeast (225 grams) it equals 2 oz of yeast or 56.25 grams, as you can see im only using 48 grams, had to mix and match yeasts to get to 48 grams and thats all i had at the house.

This mix startd to bubble in the 1st five minutes, I now have the over flow tube set in a glass jar because the foam reached the top within 1 hour.
This recipe seems like alot of yeast to me, but we'll see. I will keep you posted!

Image

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by coltrane » Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:46 am

I started a 75 liter wash of Birdwatchers recipe last night, everything looks and smells great. I have been checking the temps and I am worried that they are a bit high. 88F/31C. I tried the wet towel last night, and it did not seem to have an effect. The SG today was 1.048...so it is dropping and bubbling very nicely. What do I have to watch from here on out? Hoping that the temp drops tonight, as I live in the Caribbean.was trying to find a place where I would not have to move them around all day, which ended up being the surfboard room, but I think that they may benefit from the outside air circulation. They are air locked could this be a reason for higher temps? How sensitive is this wash? Will it be highly effected if the temp moves all over the place?

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by rad14701 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:44 pm

coltrane, don't worry about the temperature unless it gets above the mid-90's... Any initial spike in temperature should subside as the ferment progresses... High gravity along with high oxygenation, high yeast pitch rate, and high nutrient fortification, will drive up the temperature at the start, especially for large volume washes...

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by coltrane » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:12 am

Ok, I just checked my SG and @ 6 days reading .990 ( I was away for a few days, so may have finished yesterday or the day before.) All of the sediment is at the bottom of the bucket and the wash is a translucent whitish/yellowish color. Based on SG I believe the wash is is 10% ABW 12.5% ABV, (it is my first, so I hope I am correct)

1.) Is it OK for the wash to sit in the fermenting buckets with the sediment in the bottom for a few days if it is air-locked, while I get the still prepared?
2.) Should I rack this off?
3.) Does it need to clear more?

Just want to make sure I am taking going through the proper procedures, until the still is ready to roll in the next couple of days.

Thanks for any input....once I finish this I may have a bit more confidence, things seem to be going swimmingly, but that is usually when things get messed up!

Thanks,

Coltrane
is this considered clear?
is this considered clear?
BW Wash 6 days
BW Wash 6 days

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by Bushman » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:30 pm

Should be fine, I set mine in the cold for a day or two before racking into the boiler. Looks like your drains may be a bit low but it might just be the angle!

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Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe - tweaks

Post by Goose » Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:09 pm

I must say this is an amazing forum, I wish one day some kind and knowledgeable chap would filter the crud and set up the good stuff in something like wiki format to save the grind through endless pages... ok I digress.

Still trying to get to a wash I can trust, and recently just put down 3 washes yesterday of precisely the following recipe for a 25 litre wash. My objective, a 14 % wash in 7 days using where possible, ingredients that come packaged in unit quantities required. For example, I hate keeping over a 1/2 a tin of unused tomato paste...

Sugar: 6kg (can buy in 2 kg bags)
Tomato paste: 2 x 6oz tins
Lemon: x 1, juiced
MgSO4: 1/2 teaspoon
Yeast: 100g Instant Bakers yeast (bought bulk in 500g vaccuum sealed, guess this one I just have to keep in the fridge, enough for 5 batches).

These washes took off within minutes of sprinkling yeast on top. Extremely violent fermentation, continuing 24 hours so far. Ambient 27 degrees C, but carboys feel alot warmer.

Reason for the post is that I am also aware that tomato paste lacks B complex and Nitrogen as well as Mg (if I may quote Rad), though the MgSO4 I added at least provides the Magnesium:
At the very least you should augment the recipe with a source of B complex vitamins as well as a nitrogen source and magnesium which can be sourced via epsom salt...
So if i may ask, the "tweaks" people refer to, is this a multivitamin tab ? Or does adding sufficient yeast (as I have) sufficient ?. I will no doubt find out in 7 days or so if I have been successful
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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by rad14701 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:35 am

The tweaks I am currently testing per gallon (4 liters) are:

1/2 tsp epsom salt
1/2 tsp baking soda
1/2 tsp Peters 20-20-20

I have not scaled these experiments up beyond 5 gallons yet... They have not used multivitamins either...

I have had several Birdwatchers washes finish in under 5 days... Of course, the higher the potential %ABV the longer the ferment will take... I have played with 11.5% - 14.1%... Your mileage may vary...

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by forrestgump » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:04 pm

My turn to have a go at the birdwatchers.

6Kg Sugar
1 can (170gm) Tomato paste
1 teaspoon Epsom Salts
juice 1 lemon
70gm bakers yeast.

I had planned this to be a 25l wash but it ended up being 30l all up as I kept adding water to try to pull the SG down.

I ended up with 30l total, SG 1.082 @ 26C

That gives a nice conservative potential ABV of close to 12%

Comments welcome.
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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by Goose » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:40 pm

Thanks for that rad.. have seen these fertilzers in plant nurseries, 20/20/20 + te... P, N, K + trace elements, sounds great for a yeast food so I can see where you are coming from.

Just an update on these washes, its been 48 hours and my SG is down from 1.09 down to 1.01 already... scary :crazy: did I create my own turbo :roll: , I hope not. Taste is fine but of course the wash is not clear by any stretch of the imagination.

I know i am targetting 14% and therefore perhaps a bit over zealous this but compensated on paste quantity and instant yeast quantity versus Birdwatcher standard. However am aware that instant yeast comes with its own set of pre packged nutrients so maybe that is the key here. Its not expensive so I dont mind adding what it takes (within reason).

Maybe I just got lucky with the brand of yeast I am using, this one is "Bruggeman" and is manufactured in Belgium (hmm... Trappist springs to mind :| ). I also have tried another brand called "Red Man" (Malaysian origin) which I tried in a similar but not quite the same recipe with very poor results (finished at 1.020 after two weeks).

This is the stuff, if anybody is interested:

Image

I'll report back in another 5 days or so with the SG and clarity.
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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by waylyn » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:00 pm

Don't know if this is a stupid question, but does anyone use any of the backset in the new fermntation for this recipe, or is there no point

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by Odin » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:22 pm

I work with the Bruggeman as well. Dutch, living 100 clicks from Belgium ...

Backset can help add taste, lower PH, give yeast nutrients. For reasons 2 and 3, you can sour mash, not for getting over more taste like UJSSM or SF.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by rad14701 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:26 am

Goose wrote:I did recall somebody got a slight tomato smell/flavour hint in their low wines from a stripping run from this recipe. Has anybody experienced the same ?

While I am very happy with the screaming performance of these washes I did use 2 x tins of paste so the wash still has a very pinkish tinge. I do concern I may carry over some tomato flavour in my stripping run. Time will tell. For the next washes I will try just 1 tin and see if I get the same performance.
I am using 1 tablespoon (15ml) of tomato paste/puree per quart/liter in my modified version of this recipe... I haven't done a fast stripping run to date but haven't noticed any smells or tastes when doing single pot still spirit runs... And definitely nothing from reflux runs...

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by rad14701 » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:01 pm

Goose wrote:Update

OG below 1.00 on day 6. Conclusion is that 1 6 oz tin of tomato paste will suffice. Quite impressive for 6 kg sugar in a 25 litre wash. Will leave washes to settle for another week before distillation.

I am definitely of the belief that the quality (and quantity) of the yeast used is of key importance, and not just any instant bakers yeast will do...
For clean neutral this is a very simple recipe... With a few minor tweaks it even finishes faster... :shh: I just ran off a stockpile of 5 liters of Birdwatcher feints, diluted to 40%, yesterday, and am enjoying the resulting neutral spirits as I type this... :thumbup:

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by GuyFawkes » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:42 pm

Sorry if this has been answered, but I just couldn't have gone through all 40 pages of this thread....

Does anyone know if it is okay to use canned, diced tomatoes, and if so how would that translate to the recipe? I assume I would need more of it since the paste would be denser, I figure I would just use a cup of smashed, diced tomatoes for a 5 gallon wash
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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by rad14701 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:59 pm

GuyFawkes wrote:Does anyone know if it is okay to use canned, diced tomatoes, and if so how would that translate to the recipe? I assume I would need more of it since the paste would be denser, I figure I would just use a cup of smashed, diced tomatoes for a 5 gallon wash
I'd use more diced tomatoes than that... As a baseline I'd go with 2 to 2.5 cups and then adjust up or down from there based on results... Tomato paste and tomato puree is definitely reduced down considerably in comparison to diced tomatoes...

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