2nd batch !!

allen42 · Post by **allen42** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:48 am

ok 2nd batch has been run , the 1st quart collected was 97 % !!! I was so thrilled !! , i have not checked the rest yet because the cheap ass colum i bought that is made of plastic SHATTERED after the 1st batch , when i went to test the 2nd quart , it looked like spider web & fell to pieces when i picked it up ! wasnt hot or cold spirits, just 97% sprits !! anybody reading thiis , go ahead & get a glass test tube thingy when checking the strenth !

one question , with it coming off @ 97 % , do i need to do anything else to it ? carbon ? oak chips ? how do most of yall teart your sprits when finished ?

what i did different this time from last was to insulate the colum , added boiling chips & waited a full hour AFTER i got over 130 degrees , i did have a few OZ drip out a few times in teh 1st hour when the temp would jump to 168 , then i turn the water up a lil bit & it would settle back down to around 150 ish , and when i did start to collent , i did so a WHOLE LOT SLOWER than the last time, hell i was collecting for 8 hours & it was prolly still some collectable when i shut it off & cleaned up , i was happ to get a gallon !!

The Chemist · Post by **The Chemist** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:15 am

ARRRGH! PLASTIC! (Nobody listens).

The first quart you collected, was it really the first quart, or did you make a heads cut? If you did, you shouldn't need to treat it at all. You didn't say whether this was vodka, whisky, rum, etc., but from the proof I'm guessing vodka or rum. Should be fine like it is, but you can add stuff for aging if you like. See the appropriate threads.

Post by **Grayson_Stewart** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:19 am

Allen42,
You're probably going to get about 72 posts admonishing the use of the plastic like The Chemist stated

And half of those are going to ask why you would want to put flavor into something when you have expended alot of effort to strip out all flavor.

But to answer your question, if you like the taste of the nuetral spirit then at the % you describe you don't need further treatment. If you want to try carbon to see if its better than without...try it and see if you like it better after carbon treatment.

Oak chips would be used to impart flavoring rather than being termed "treatment" as most would percieve it. As far as flovoring nuetral spirits, just use your imagination....if you like it, do it. I like both totally nuetral vodka and flovered vodka. I particularly like maple syrup, vanilla extract and a few peppercorns to flavor some vodka.

allen42 · Post by **allen42** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:58 am

yes your right AGGGGGGGG @ Plastic ! lol

no Chem i had thrown away prolly 12 or so OZ before i ever started to collect , this was the drops that fell while trying to stablize & reach a equlirbam & then the first few Oz's of the run

Grayson , would you give me the recipe that you use with the syrup & nilla extract ? dont have any idea what a peppercon taste like lol

thanks guys !

Post by **Grayson_Stewart** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:38 am

I don't have a recipe exactly...it's kinda like when grandma used to make biscuits, she just did it by instinct and they usually turned out the same everytime.

Start off with this and adjust to meet your tastes, but remember.... you can add more if needed for taste but can't get too much of something back out:

Per gallon at drinking strength; add 1 to 2 oz. real maple syrup, 2 to 3 tablespoons pure vanilla extract, 8 to 12 whole peppercorns.

A peppercorn is unground pepper, the type placed into a pepper mill and ground fresh over food. Remove the peppercorns after a week or two unless you like a really spicy drink. This is even better if aged on charred white oak.

Virginia Gentleman · Post by **Virginia Gentleman** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:21 pm

I've made sour mash, aged on oak a few weeks, then added honey, vanilla and peppercorns. It is unbelievably good, and I've only done about 5 runs, still learning. Try it for sure, and make sure to share with friends!

allen42 · Post by **allen42** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:57 pm

Thanks for the Tips Grayson , I'll try a gallon of *your* drink ASAP !!

did i ever tell yall i love this place ? Well i DO !!

Thanks so much for ALL the help Yall !

Allen

Arnie_sla · Post by **Arnie_sla** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:26 pm

Congrats on getting 97% the best I have ever been able to get was 94% and even then I think the spirit was warm and so it was reading high. After I treated it on carbon for a week and retested it before diluting, it was down to 92%. Are you absolutely sure you got it as high as 97%. I have actually read somewhere, that the highest that can be obtained using distillation was about 94-95%.

Chemist can you give us some more info on the obtainable percent using the distilation process.

Whats the best the rest of you have been able to get for a neutral spirit using a reflux still.

Yttrium · Post by **Yttrium** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:39 pm

Without using some fancy tricks(molecular sieve, etc) I believe 95.6% ABV is the highest you can get based.

Post by **Grayson_Stewart** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:24 pm

95% is the best I ver got but it takes soooooo much longer to squeak out 95% as opposed to 93% that I'll live with 93%.

Pieterpost · Post by **Pieterpost** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:46 pm

Grayson, I do exactly the same thing! Can't be bothered to wait much longer to get 95% in stead of 93% !!!!!

Allen42, just wondering, did you do a temparature correction when you measured the alcohol content of your spirit?

linw · Post by **linw** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:18 am

96.5% is the aseotropic value. (Yttrium, you obviously made a little typo!). Mine looks like 96% out of the still but it is 25 deg. At 20 deg it is 95%.

allen42 · Post by **allen42** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:53 am

to be honest , i forgot ALL about the temp correction , when my sprits comes out it is cool though ,, i cant retest it till i get another vile to test with , the damn plastic vile shattered from the high % i guess , i ggot all 4 quart jars labeled as to the order they came off , so when i get a GLASS vile , i will retest to make sure of the 97%

I will say that i ran it VERY VERY SLOW , it took me 9 hours to get the gallon i kept , a few times when i would go outside, the temp would drop & it would stop flowing & when i would come back in, i cut the water back & the temp would pop backup & start dripping again !

it may be a wrong reading , like i said ,I'll check it again in a few days & post the results ,,

The Chemist · Post by **The Chemist** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:04 am

Looks like some miscommunication may be going on. Degrees Proof is a measure of the percentage of ethanol by volume. Sometimes, however, chemists find it more useful to talk about percentages by weight. Murtagh gives the azeotrope's proof as 194.4, which is 97.2 % by volume. This is the same as 96.5% by weight, the other one mentioned (which is NOT proof at all). If you have a specific gravity hydrometer, you'll get percent by weight, and 96.5% will be the max you can distill. If you have a proof hydrometer, you'll measure % by volume, and 97.2 is your theoretical maximum.

Ain't Science Grand!

allen42 · Post by **allen42** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:35 am

i have both , the SG one is what the lady at the brew shop sold me for my mine making , the newst one measures in Proof & trallies or something like that lol , i dont have time to run by the shop today , BUT i will see if i can get my wife to find a rose bud vase & try to use it to test it again lol i swear to yall i hadnt been drinking when i saw 97% !!

Yttrium · Post by **Yttrium** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:41 pm

Yttrium, you obviously made a little typo!

Hmm...well, that'll show me to not just cut and paste. I guess Tony has some misinformation on his site.

http://homedistiller.org/types.htm

http://homedistiller.org/dtw.htm

allen42 · Post by **allen42** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:33 am

Grayson , when you age on chared white oak , do you filter afterwards to remove any bits of chard oak ?

linw · Post by **linw** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:19 am

Yttrium wrote:
Yttrium, you obviously made a little typo!
Hmm...well, that'll show me to not just cut and paste. I guess Tony has some misinformation on his site.

http://homedistiller.org/types.htm

http://homedistiller.org/dtw.htm

Errr, I think I might have been the one giving out misinformation! 95.6% it is.

Yttrium, wish I could say I made a typo! Anyway, some consolation, my stuff is REALLY close to the azeotrope (see, I can spell it correctly now, too!).

(Slinks away, quietly, muttering apologies).

Virginia Gentleman · Post by **Virginia Gentleman** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:21 am

allen42 wrote:Grayson , when you age on chared white oak , do you filter afterwards to remove any bits of chard oak ?

I know ya didn't ask me, but when I age on charred oak I filter it through paper coffee filters only. That removes all of the large oak particles, but leaves color and flavor. Any heavier filtering (like with carbon, Z-filter, etc.) would remove a good amount of the color and flavor you worked so hard to put in there.

And just a note that a little charred oak goes a long way. I had a pint sitting on oak for 2 weeks that just finished, and used way too much and the flavor and color is much too strong. It's almost black and very heavy. So next time I will use just one 1/2"x1/2" cubes instead of the six I used this time!

Post by **Grayson_Stewart** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:18 am

Yes, I filter the charred whiskey through coffee filters. It takes several passes and several filters to completly catch all of it.

Yttrium · Post by **Yttrium** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:43 am

Errr, I think I might have been the one giving out misinformation! 95.6% it is

Heck, I don't know

On the homedistiller website, there are two references to the limit being 95.6%
http://homedistiller.org/types.htm
http://homedistiller.org/dtw.htm

There are also two references to the limit being 96.5%
http://homedistiller.org/theory.htm
http://homedistiller.org/dilute.htm

The Chemist · Post by **The Chemist** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:55 am

Perhaps I've found the problem on this percentage/proof thing.

Murtagh (The Alcohol Textbook) reports the proof of the azeotrope to be 194.4 deg P. We can assume that this is 97.2% by volume since 175.25 deg. Imperial proof is 100% by volume. If you do the math this (97.2% v/v) comes out to 96.5% w/w ethanol. But wait! If you mix one liter of 80% ethanol with one liter of water, you won't get two liters of 40% ethanol! Strange, but true. The alcohol/water mixture contracts, so the volume changes, thowing off the proof calculation.

Now, Merck reports the azeotrope's ethanol concentration to be 95.57%w/w. From the U.S Bureau of Standards, this corresponds to 97.02% v/v.

Arnie_sla · Post by **Arnie_sla** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:03 pm

To Chemist, Now I am really confussed.

You say "But wait! If you mix one liter of 80% ethanol with one liter of water, you won't get two liters of 40% ethanol! Strange, but true"

So if I have 92% ABV ethanol, messured using the alchometer that came with my Still Spirits kits I bought when I first started this hobby 5 years ago.

And I want to cut it to 40% ABV, how much water do I add???

My basic calculations would say that for every 1 litre ethanol at 92 % ABV I would need to add 1.3 litres of water. Is that correct ??? I think not now by what you have said above. How far off is it ???

Post by **Grayson_Stewart** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:07 pm

Chemist is right, after the mixture goes through the heat there is a "contraction" in the comnbined volumes, but I don't think you really need to worry about it. Assuming you aren't in a technical field, have a lab documented and accurate hydrometer, experienced in temperature calculations, reading a meniscus, etc. you would never notice the event Chemist is talking about ...Also, I doubt you will be able to discern the proof difference between Chemist's calculations and yours

linw · Post by **linw** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:51 am

Yttrium, you are right about the conflicting info on Homedistiller! Guess it is a bit hair-splitting. I found another scientific-type site and it said 95.6%. Others say 95% and yet others say 96%! You would think this figure was known by now! Anyway, I think we can all agree that 95% is about it for us guys.

The Chemist · Post by **The Chemist** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:38 am

Arnie_sla wrote:So if I have 92% ABV ethanol, messured using the alchometer that came with my Still Spirits kits I bought when I first started this hobby 5 years ago.

And I want to cut it to 40% ABV, how much water do I add???

1.36 times the volume of 92% ethanol. I get this from a table in "Manufacture of Whiskey, Brandy & Cordials" by Irving Hirsch (a great book--Lindsay Publishing--cheap, too). I haven't tried to figure out the formula yet, but will mention that the "1.36 times volume" is only valid for ninety-two to forty percent conversions.

Arnie_sla · Post by **Arnie_sla** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:59 pm

So I was pretty close with my calulation. I don't think that I will really notice the 0.06 diffenence.

The formula I use to work out how much water to add is

(start % / end %)-1

ie (92 / 40)-1= 1.30

or (80 / 40)-1= 1.00

or (80 / 35)-1= 1.28 this works for all different start or end pecentages

amikkola · Post by **amikkola** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:08 pm

yea, its odd chem stuff...

ethanol is actualy a solute (something that desolves) and water is the solvent (the... thing that the solute disolves in)... its kinda like adding a pound of sugar to water, the volumes dont add, they... find a middle ground between just the solvent and the added volumes...

the ethanol actualy disolves to an extent in the water, which also causes the azeotrope effect of pulling water fromt he air into the solution.

it shouldn't make a huge difference with 2 liquids though, a solid into a liquid yealds a much larger difference...

AkCoyote · Post by **AkCoyote** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:33 pm

Here's how I cut everything and the formula seems to work just fine:

If I have 90% spirit and want to make a bottle of 80 proof vodka, the formula is .75 x .4 x 1.111111 = .3333333

Where:
.75 = 750ml bottle expressed as a decimal (the amount of finished product)

.4 = the % alcohol expressed as a decimal .4=40%=80 Proof

1.11111 = the multiplication factor. In this case, 1 divided by 90 (the spirit strength) = 1.11111

.33333 = ml of 90% spirit. Move the decimal 3 places to the right and you have 333 ml of 90% spirit. 750-333=417 ml water.

Measure the final product with a alcometer and it will be 40%. I made an excel spreadsheet for various finished percents and keep them in a binder for reference.

AkCoyote

allen42 · Post by **allen42** » Fri May 06, 2005 3:00 am

Hello Yall, as promised i rechecked the Batch i made the other week , after finally going by the brew shop & getting a GLASS testing tube !! , anyway I still didnt adjust the findings as i have lost the damn sheet that came with the hydrometer !! BUT the 1st quart tested 96% at room temp , the 2nd quart tested 95% & the 3rd quart tested 92 % lol the 4th quart & 5th quart has already been errrrrrrrr consumed for medical pouposes !!! hehehe I have the last 3 quarts soaking on American white oak chips

Home Distiller

2nd batch !!

2nd batch !!

97% WOW

Confussed

Re: Confussed

Thanks