uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

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MisterSteve124
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Post by MisterSteve124 »

Yeah it wasn't turbo yeast it was just the bakers yeast left over from my first generation. I had the heater set on 74 degrees so on the inside of the fermenter it was probably 70 maybe 71 now the SG is down to .990 so I think everything was fine.
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Post by MisterSteve124 »

Yeah the SG was .990 but I just pulled some of the wash out to taste it and it doesn't taste real good kinda hard to describe what it tastes like though, I wonder what happened. I guess I'll run it and see what happens.
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Post by Jameson Beam »

MisterSteve124 wrote:Yeah the SG was .990 but I just pulled some of the wash out to taste it and it doesn't taste real good kinda hard to describe what it tastes like though, I wonder what happened. I guess I'll run it and see what happens.
Well Steve, With only a 3 day ferment and if you say the ending SG was .990, then the only thing i can think of is that the sugars were kinda weak - do you remember what the starting SG was?? A 3 day ferment for baker's yeast does seem kinda fast in my book :?

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Post by punkin »

Reiterated my UJSM last night. Topped up with 32 litres water and 8 litres of backset for 7 kg of sugar.
Tested the ph and it was at or below what my papers will show at 3.
Took a litre out and added 1 teaspoon of sodium bicarb, it took the litre up to at or above what my papers show at 6.
Added that litre back to a slight change, and gradually added half a teaspoon at a time with tests in between to find that 3 and a half teaspoons brought it back up around the 4.5 mark.
Tossed in a couplea vitamin pills as a reward for a tired and struggling yeast and it was off when i screwed the lid back on :lol:

Bubblin away merrilly this morn, will see if i'm back to 6 day ferments :wink:


Thanks again Jameson, Stoker and others :wink:





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baker's yeast

Post by Uncle Jesse »

I've had 3 day ferments with baker's yeast, no problems. In fact I stopped purchasing high gravity yeasts after a while, and I had a bunch of dry distillers yeast I'd use for any high gravity mashes.
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Post by Ricky »

a 3 day ferment with a 10% potential wash? i must be doing something wrong. 7.5% potential alcohol takes me a week and the temp stays 75 deg. i use bakers yeast and ferment is 15gal.
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Post by MisterSteve124 »

Ok good just wanted to make sure something didn't go wrong. I just turned a heater on and set the thermostat to 73 and the next morning it was bubbling like crazy. You would think it was hooked up to an air compressor, probably 4-5 bubbles per second.
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Post by ER70S-2 »

I'm on my 4th generation of USJM and I really like the stuff, thanks Uncle Jessie. I'm running a pot still and not a relfux cloumn.
The first 2 batches I collected down to 20% on the first run and then ran it through the still a second run and collected down to 40%. Both runs I removed the first 200ml and discarded it as heads. This stuff tasted really good, lots of corn flavour.
The third generation of the USJM I followed the instructions a little more to the letter and collected everything on the first run down to 20%, then on the second run I only kept what I collected between 80% to 70% for sipping whiskey, kept the rest as tails. I found this batch to be somewhat lacking in flavour, it's a nice smooth alcohol, almost refreshing, but no taste of corn like the first couple runs when I collected down to 40%.
From what I read Uncle Jessie used a reflux style column for the instructions he posted, collecting between 80 -70% for sipping whiskey. Just curious how others who use a pot still are collecting and making there cuts for best flavour? I know this is somewhat subjective, but I would like to hear other pot stillers collection and cut methods on this fine product!
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Post by Aidas »

ER70S-2 wrote:Just curious how others who use a pot still are collecting and making there cuts for best flavour? I know this is somewhat subjective, but I would like to hear other pot stillers collection and cut methods on this fine product!
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Er70S-2
I do it completely different. I'm running a copper alembic, 20 liter capacity (15 liter washes).

I do a first run fast and dirty, collecting about 4-5 liters (discarding the first 100 as foreshots) down to about 20%. The 5 liters end up being about 40% ABV all together.

I then do a second slow and careful run, collecting down to around 60% (tossing the first 50 to the Caution gods and the next 150-300 to the heads and tails jar, depending on smell, as taste is hard to judge at such high proof). I end up collecting about 1.7 - 1.9 liters of distillate anywhere from 68 to 72 ABV (depending on the type of UJSM I'm doing -- corn, oats, whatever, each has its own peculiarities of when it should be stopped)

I dillute to 40% and pretty much always end up with give or take 3 liters of UJSM. Which is exactly as it should be, as my 15 liter washes are made with 1 kg. of sugar per 5/liters, i.e. 1 liter of spirits should come out of 5 liters of wash.

I think you're stopping collection too early and just not getting enough flavor -- there's an awful lot of flavor in early tails... so I like to dance my way towards that, and sometimes step on their toes. :)

That's how I do it.


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Post by punkin »

I've just copied my second run results from another thread.
this is a ujsm variant and my stills a bit different to yours, and my tastes are a bit different to yours ect.
But take this info as you will;
Here's y'days spirit run UJSM with malted barley.
26-28l low wines taken off tween 65% and 20% assume the same as yours at around 58-60% average (although i didn't test)

Start7.45am,
250ml 4 shots pulled off then (in litres);

B1, .5 @ 86% (8:30)
B2, .5 @ 87% (8.37)
B3, .5 @ 86% (8.45)
B4, .5 @ 86% (8.52)
B5, .5 @ 85% (9.00)
Switch to hearts jars by smell and taste, i'm sure i'm well into it.
A1, 4l @ 85% (10.00)
A2, 4l (2l @ 84%, 2l @ 83%) (10.50)
A3, 4l (2l @ 82%, 2l @ 79%) (11.47)
A4, 2l @ 70% (12.23)
Switch back as tails are about starting to make emselves known
B6, .7 @ 65% (12.3
B7, .5 @ 60% (12.45)

Ran about two litres of tails off after that to 25%.

Did my cuts this morniing, added B5 the half litre of head to heart transition, but left B6 the first of the tails out.

So to 14.5 litres of 81% hearts i added 3.6 litres of boiled water to make 18.1 litres at 65%. No heady shudder or tail wince, just good clean sippin whiskey that'll go on toasted sticks till i can tell if it's very different from the UJSM straight.
If the sharp scotchy type taste i'm half expecting is not there it'll go into the barrell ontop of my straight ujsm.

Gotta pass my Bourbon girl's inspection yet
It's all done to taste, not figures, and i can't really see any other way of doing it properly.


Hope it helps, although i think it'll take a few more reads.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by jdonly1 »

Just got my first sour mash on the go.Carnt wait to try the end product and then get the second lot started :wink:
Thanks for all the tips guys
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Centimeter »

I started the first UJSM ferment four days ago and from the smell I am already a very happy customer. Last cooked mash smelled like vomit and the distillate wasn't much better.

I am leaving to go backpacking in a couple days and I was really planning on having this ferment done in the four day window so that I could distill it before leaving. The ferment is still going strong with a lot of yeast still suspended. There's definitely a good yeast cake on the bottom though. Is it alright to go ahead and do a stripping run even though the yeast hasn't quite settled and the primary ferment hasn't kicked out yet? I'm not looking for alcohol yield as this is my first run and I am mostly concerned with the backset. My still is run with two 3000W/240V elements at 120V (2 x 750W) and I haven't really had any problems with charring. Can anybody see an issue with doing the stripping run now?

On that note, how are you guys doing the strip four days in? I have a hard time seeing the primary kicking and settling in four days. Do you guys just call it at four days and strip or rack and allow to settle?
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Hawke »

My 'sweet' ferments have taken up to 8 days to finish. Once they have the backset, they finish in the 4 day range. Started 2 new batches a couple days ago. This time I had the backset saved from the previous batch, it's looking like they will finish in the 4 day range.
I would let yours finish out. Or, rack it into a carboy/Cornie keg and make room in the fridge. Let it rest for a couple of days and most of the solids will settle out.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Centimeter »

Hawke, I would do that, however I must leave town in a couple of days and I was hoping to get a 2nd gen. batch going while I'm gone. I don't mind the loss of alcohol, rather I'm wondering if distilling with the yeast still going will generate off flavors or ruin the backset.

Edit- I've run wash with mill powder still present and the worst that happened was that my elements got some of the powder caked on. No charring or discolleration was observed though. I think that because I'm using such low power (2 x 750W elements) for the strip that I don't need to worry much about charring. Thoughts?
Last edited by Centimeter on Sun May 11, 2008 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by trthskr4 »

It has been my experience that it will leave some off flavors by doing this, however if you don't plan on trying to drink any of it or running it all back through with the next batch it won't matter much. That is if you don't have any issues with it sticking to your elements and burning cause it's hard to get that flavor out. You may be able to filter the unfinished wash though and get most of the solids out by running it through a fine mesh cheesecloth or muslin bag. Maybe somebody will have an opinion on that.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Husker »

That type of filter will remove almost none of the yeast solids (but will strip out the corn). UJSM (especially the first run or 2), can handle a little extra time IF kept under air lock.

When I run mine, it is on about a 1 week cycle (with 2 batches going). I do 3 days or so in primary, then siphon off into a carboy, add cooled backset and fire up the primary again. The carboy will sit for 3 days or so (to clear some), then into the still. When I drop that into the still I wash the yeast dregs, and put the new 3 day old primary into the carboy (and restart the primary). Then strip distill, and cycle again.

Thus, I have 2 runs going in tandom, and both get about a week of time to do their magic. The final wash is done fairly well, and somewhat clear (not perfectly clear, but 80% clear).

That is just my method, others can certainly do things differently, and still have great results. With this sour mash method, it really is hard to screw it up.

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by punkin »

If you're only going for a few days i'd leave it and do it when you get back.

I run my UJSM similar to my beer, wait till it's finnished and give it a day or two. i don't rack or anything like that, just drain it through the grain cake.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Centimeter »

I have a 9.5 gallon pot still and I usually strip ~7 gallons of wash with it. Each stripping run is taking me ~4.5 hours. Considering that I'm doing this four times and then a 4 hour spirit run, I am spending a hell of a lot of time distilling. I'm looking for ways to increase the speed of the stripping runs. I'm currently using two 3000W 240V elements at 120V (2 x 750W) for the strip because I heard that this reduces the possibility of charring. I was wondering if anybody has used 1500W 120V elements to strip UJSM. If so, have you noticed any issues with charring? Have any of you guys had issues with charring at all with this mash? I was thinking that it seems rather thin to char to an appreciable extent. Once again, thanks UJ for this recipe!
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by sconly »

got one of these going earlyer as soon as i added the yeast it started bubbling cant wait to try it all i need is to build my pot still
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Centimeter »

I've been doing a ton of UJSM mashes and I've been having some troubles. I first strip four 25 liter ferments down to 20% using my pot still with 3000W. This leaves me about 6 gallons of low wines. I then charge my pot still with the 6 gallons and bring it to a boil with 3000W...now the tricky part. At first, I ran it really slow (~3-6 drops per second). For the first two gallons or so of distillate, it was very harsh and acrid finally mellowing out at ~70% leaving a nice smooth grain flavor. However I only got about 1/2 gallon on the tasty fraction before tails started in. Seeing as this was a six gallon charge, I thought that this was a little ridiculous so I took all of my distillate and distilled it a third time at about the same rate and finally got a mostly smooth product. In total, I got about a gallon of smooth distillate out of four 25 liter ferments with a total distillation time of about 25 hours.

I made a goal to improve the process so I fermented up four more 25 liter batches (3rd generation) and did the stripping runs the same as before. I then ran air through the 6 gallons of distillate for about half a day. I charged my still up with the aired out low wines and ran it really slow (< 2 drops per second) for about one liter then cranked the heat up so that I was putting out about 1.8-2 liters per hour. Once again, the distillate was harsh and acrid for the first two gallons or so and then mellowed out at ~70%. This time I got about 2/3 of a gallon of smooth distillate. :x

What's the deal here? How come the majority of the distillate is so harsh no matter how fast or slow I run it? Is it supposed to taste acrid and then get mellowed out during aging? This isn't even all of my runs...I reran both of these runs too before finally sticking with what I got and putting it on oak. I've been collecting all of the spirit runs in 400ml fractions and allowing them to air out for >24 hours before mixing. Am I being too picky? Does your guy’s white dog taste dandy right out of the still? If so, what kind of flavor does it have? Any help or insight would b very much appreciated.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by trthskr4 »

Well, the amount you're getting sounds about right to me. I triple distill all my UJSM's now and with 3 gallons of low wines, tails and all I add in 2 gallons of filtered water and yesturday I decided to add in a little bit of baking soda to the still just to see what I'd get...beautiful, smooth and aroma of corn all through the run without that harshness in the first bit as usual. Airing and aging on oak will smooth or mellow it out a bit, but doing it the way I have been doing it lately makes it smoother than say Jack Daniels or Jim Beam straight out of the still and they've been aged on oak for years. I can't stand a harsh whiskey, it's gotta be smooth and I can't find anything I can afford that gives me what I'm looking for, so I'm determined to make it.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Centimeter »

Very good information. Good to hear that I'm not alone. What abv of low wines do you charge your still with for the spirit run on both the second and third distillation? What ratio of baking soda do you add to your runs and do you only add it to the spirit run?
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Husker »

I never add soda to a spirit run on any type of flavored drink (rum, whiskey, etc). Add it when making a neutral.

When I ran UJSM, I was making 11-12% washes. My low wines ended up about 38% or so, and the spirit run after cuts was pretty close to 65%

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Dnderhead »

Seams that a lot of people want to make 80-90% alcohol then wonder why there's no flavor and it "bites" your distilling out all the flavor to git the
high alcohol. if you run it off at 60%more or less you will have much more flavor and not have to add so much water some of that "bite" is alcohol it burns the soft tissue of the mouth (try on a scrap/cut and you will see) (60% is a good place for flavor and generally good for ageing at also)
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by trthskr4 »

Husker and Dndr, I have an 18" column on my pot and 1 SS scrubber. My normal UJSM stripping runs start usually at 74% after fores, and my tails usually start to come over at around 50%. Would cutting my column down to nothing get my abv down or do I want it down. For a spirit run I dilute down to just below 40% and it comes over at around 80-85% with a little flavor but the really good stuff comes in at around 60% to 50% or somewhere in between but it's short lived before tails come through. I'm really still learning and experimenting to find my personal sweet spot. I can blend and dilute then age (I have only had a short time to age) and get a product as good as some off the shelf. I'm after the sho nuff back room private stash stuff better than top shelf. I don't drink alot so I'm not after quantity as much as quality, I drink about a fifth of whiskey a year, I've got time to make that much top notch stuff.

Oh and according to the parent site (there's a good explanation of why there) never add baking soda to your wash, only add it to distillate before a spirit run with no new wash in it.


I added almost a quarter cup to 3 gallons of 55% watered down to below 40%,so roughly 5 gallons total, not as much as for a neutral, the parent has some recommendations for 3 TBsps (I think it's tablespoons) per litre of spirit. It said it would help with the heads and it did. I can still use the later hearts to flavor it up as everything below 70% was still very flavorful. Husker I don't know if it's right, I trust your judgement, I was just trying to find a solution to my particular problem with the soda. I may have just gotten lucky this time and it actually worked for me, even a broke clock's right twice a day. :wink:
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Dnderhead »

yes cutting column will help considerably if you want flavor and if your "water" it down between runs your leaving flavor in the water when you run again
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Centimeter »

Alright Dnder, you've sold me. I spent all today trying to convince myself to crank it up higher but I just kept telling myself that the harshness will give out with just a little bit more. What can I say…I started out in this hobby a few years back doing strictly neutral on a reflux still. Old habits I guess. I saved the low wine backset, so I'm going to throw everything back together, insulate my column and crank it right up to 1500W. I think you're right about the proof being too high. I get a real nice flavor profile right around 70% to 55% but by then I've already stripped out most of the alcohol trying to get rid of the acrid heads. I hope that the fast distillation rate wont cause that acrid flavor to carry through the whole run. Would it be a good idea to start it off slow for a pint or two and then crank it up just to try and clear out the heads a bit? Anyhow, I'll give it a go in the next couple days and report back with the results.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Husker »

trthskr4 (and others running a short column). If you are getting such high ABV's as 70% on your stripping run (with tails at 50%), then crank up the heat. I also run my strips until there is almost nothing left at all (all the way to the bottom of the tails). I use the spirit run to clean things up, and run at about 75% the speed in the spirit run. If you run TOO fast there, you will likely bring over tails for the entire run (spoiling your product).

As for the usage of soda in a flavored spirit, are there others who have tried? If so, was your ending flavor profile "right". I use soda in my cleanup runs (pretty much only make neutral from cleanup from other projects). It certainly compresses the heads, and adds that VERY distinct cut off between heads and body, which helps get more neutral body. I was assuming that the addition of soda (or other salts), was for making neutral. I could be wrong, and if so, I am definitely open to improvements.

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by trthskr4 »

Thanks Husker and Dndrhead, I will try that as I at least double distill everything and lately on corn I've been triple distilling it. Had a few shots last night with a little sip of Sprite and though it was light on the oak it was good.

I think I have been stuck in the mindset that running slow produces a better product no matter if it's a stripping or spirit run.
The soda definately made a distinction on my head cut. It compressed what is normally 3 pints or so of the rubbing alcohol odor and burning the nose upon a smeel to about half a pint. The parent site did suggest it for that very reason and that's why I tried it on a whiskey and not a neutral as it is intended for.
I run my tails down to 30% except on a sweet run for an UJSM and I run down to 20%.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Dnderhead »

by the way you should talk to jetzon (if hes ever around)he just went through the same thing
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