White Oak Acorn mash???

Production methods from starch to sugars.

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White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by HolyBear »

Well, call me crazy, I've been called much worse. I've been working on a few things that I hope will bring some new ideas/boredom relief for our seasoned members. Some thank that nothing's new under the sun, not to be argumentative and with much do respect, I began racking my brain trying to come up with some "new" stuff. I thank that creativity/advancement is something that we should be striving for instead of just regurgitating things that are already known. (Even though I've still got tons ta learn myself)

It has been mentioned here and on some beer sites, but as far as I can tell, an acorn mash has never been followed through with. Why would someone try? They are very nutrient rich have been a staple in our diets within our history. I remember me dad saying that they ate acorn bread alot when he was young. Not only did the Indians eat them here but over in Europe they ate allot of em too. Have they been turned into a beer before sometime in history? Probably, if it is possible, but I can't find any info on it. So here's my attempt...
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by MDH »

I've planted an entire field of camas bulbs in a previous "overgrown grass meadow" in my yard.

Chances are, someone in France has tried making this out of acorns before. I'd look there first and see if you can find someone to contact. They make Eau de Vie out of mountain ash berries there, so everything is worth a try!
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by HolyBear »

Here's a good summary of why one might like to make a drink outta them. Here it states q Alba as having 50% carbohydrates. I've read a little less on some other sites, that's still pretty good though. Can it be converted? We'll see...

http://www.eattheweeds.com/nuts-for-acorns/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Good article. Any of you "Prepers" /" homesteaders" started thinkin yet...?
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by HolyBear »

I started by gathering acorns. Not sure how many pounds I have but started with over half a large trash can full. This is called "floating" them. Any thing that floats is no good. I have picked several trash cans/5 gal buckets full over the years to be sent off to nurseries to be grown into seedlings. This was a bad year for numbers of white oak acorns hitting the ground in our area. But, the ones that did turned out very fertile. Usually about half the acorns picked will be no good. These were almost all good...
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by HolyBear »

Thinking of dunders bucket in a bucket method, I put some screen down first to give them drainage. I have kept them covered and in the dark since this pick was taken...
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by blind drunk »

Hey wacabi1, in my post in your other thread, I was referring only to already malted grain, etc because that's what I thought you meant. I didn't realize that you were wanting to actually malt the mystery substance, so my post was incorrect in that regard. You can't store it wet, as you probably already know. I had no idea what and why you were rinsing the "grains". Moisture activates the process, which is what yer planning and hoping for. If you go right into mashing, then yer good. Otherwise you'll have to dry them at a low temperature and then mash accordingly when yer ready to carry on with fermentation. Kinda of muddled, I know :)

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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by Durace11 »

Couple of questions, you have to pick them up off the ground because they aren't ready when they are still hanging? Kind of like unripe fruit I assume? The ones you pick up are dirty and possibly have "stuff" on them so you want to wash them off but couldn't you just let that stuff fall out during primary and rack it off the trub so the "stuff" stays in the trub and not go into the secondary? Possibly hit it with camden before you start your ferment to kill off any hangers on? Or just mash it and boil to kill any unwated "stuff" then whirlpool it to rack it of the break material? thinking out loud here because I'm not sure what will work and what will not. I assume you are going to not malt but rather go with grinding and enzymes, maybe I'm wrong.
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by HolyBear »

BD, no problem, I knew what you ment. They have sprouted rootlets very well, ( sprouts about 2"long long on most all of em). White oaks are of course dicots, not monocots like grains. They sprout a little different. They first send out a rootlet then off that a little, a shoot will form. I can't see any shoots yet. I've read that they do that as a protective measure from freezing until spring warm up. Thinkin maybe I should warm them up?
here's what they look like now...
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by HolyBear »

When I decide to stop the sprouting, I'll need to dry them out. This will make the shells and the brown protective layer, brittle. Then I'll put them in a sack and beat the sprouts and some of the shells off. Then I'll have alot of work to do cleaning them up. After I'm down to just meat. Then I'll begin soaking them to remove the tanins. This is the point I was concerned about in the other thread. Will this leaching to remove tanins also remove the enzymes? I'll soak and rinse several times in cold water. The cold water should atleast slow the enzyme activity down, but will it be rinsed away??? We'll see...

Hope this answers some of your questions too durac11.
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by HolyBear »

Some interesting info from... http://www.grandpappy.info/racorns.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Nutritional Information About Acorns

Acorn Nutmeats, Shelled, Dried Actual Lab Analysis Results Vary for Different Acorn Varieties and from One Growing Season to the Next

Nutrition Facts Serving Size: 1 ounce (28.4 g) Minimum and Maximum Values Shown Below

Category Amount % RDV Calories 109.7 to 144.5 7 % Calories from Fat 60.9 to 80.3 Total Fat 6.8 to 8.9 g 14 % Saturated Fat 0.9 to 1.2 g 45 % Polyunsaturated Fat 1.3 to 1.7 g Monounsaturated Fat 4.3 to 5.7 g Cholesterol 0.0 mg 0 % Total Carbohydrate 11.5 to 15.2 g 5 % Protein 1.7 to 2.3 g 5 % Vitamins Vitamin A 11.06 to 11.14 IU Less 1% B1, Thiamin 0.03 to 0.042 mg 3 % B2, Riboflavin 0.03 to 0.044 mg 3 % B3, Niacin 0.52 to 0.68 mg 3 % B5, Pantothenic Acid 0.20 to 0.27 mg 3% Vitamin B6 0.15 to 0.20 mg 10% Vitamin B12 0.0 mcg 0 % Vitamin C 0.0 mcg 0 % Vitamin D 0.0 mcg 0 % Vitamin E 0.0 mcg 0 % Minerals Calcium, Ca 11.62 to 15.34 mg 2 % Copper, Cu 0.18 to 0.23 mg 12 % Iron, Fe 0.22 to 0.29 mg 2 % Magnesium, Mg 17.58 to 23.29 mg 6 % Manganese, Mn 0.38 to 0.39 mg 10 % Phosphorus, P 22.40 to 29.25 mg 3 % Potassium, K 152.81 to 201.36 mg 10% Sodium, Na 0.0 mg 0 % Zinc, Zn 0.15 to 0.19 mg 1 %
Amino Acids Alanine 0.100 to 0.131 g Arginine 0.135 to 0.177 g Aspartic Acid 0.181 to 0.238 g Cystine 0.031 to 0.041 g Glutamic Acid 0.282 to 0.369 g Glycine 0.081 to 0.107 g Histidine 0.049 to 0.064 g Isoleucine 0.081 to 0.107 g Leucine 0.140 to 0.183 g Lysine 0.110 to 0.143 g Methionine 0.029 to 0.039 g Phenylalanine 0.077 to 0.101 g Proline 0.070 to 0.092 g Serine 0.075 to 0.098 g Tryptophan 0.021 to 0.028 g Threonine 0.067 to 0.089 g Tyrosine 0.053 to 0.070 g Valine 0.099 to 0.129 g Other Ash 0.386 to 0.506 mg Folate, DFE 24.66 to 32.66 mcg
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by Durace11 »

Have some 6-row on hand or powdered enzymes IMO. Very interested in seeing the results even though I'd never be able to collect enough arcorns in my location to reproduce this myself.
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by Odin »

Interesting! You actually mashing & fermenting thos acorns? Wow.

If it doesn't work out, you could always go for the walnut brandy approach where you just soak the acorns in likker ...

But this approach is far more interesting.

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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by HolyBear »

Odin wrote:Interesting! You actually mashing & fermenting thos acorns? Wow.

If it doesn't work out, you could always go for the walnut brandy approach where you just soak the acorns in likker ...

But this approach is far more interesting.

Odin.
Friend Sir Odin, I was hoping you would chime in... thought about you the other day while I picked some juniper berries. They were much more ripe and much easier to pick than the ones I sent you. I plan on picking more this afternoon while waiting on my daughter in dance class. I'll be sending you some more to see if these turn out better...

You research lots of stuff related to our hobby, and of course oaks grow over there. Have you heard anything about making a mash outta acorns???
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by Odin »

Nope! Never! I do have some references of "brandewijn" (brandy) being made with or out of acorns. But it is stories for children where it is stated the devils make acorn brandy. Nothing like a recipe.

But an acorn is a nut. So the walnut brandy method I did must be applicable to acorns as well. That would mean: pluck them early, still green? And macerate in 55% abv. Sumtin' like that.

But your method of actually mashing ... impressive. I hope it works out. I think the oily parts may be a pain. And I dunno about % of fermentable sugars. Tanins might be high, so maybe a lot of ageing. Just thoughts.

Thanx for picking more juniper berries! Which reminds me Wacabi, ... I have some pretty impressive "Korenwijn" style geneva ready. Well, at least I am happy with it! I will take some of the wood this weekend and ship you a small bottle. Could you pm me your address? It is the bottle Mr. P gave to Big R and Big R send to me. So there is an obligation that comes with it. That - after finishing my geneva - you will fill this small bottle up with some of your finest and ship it off to another member of HD. With a post about it, off course!

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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by NcHooch »

It's definitely the best acorn to try with ....you can tell that by the wildlife that I see under mine this time of year. :thumbup: You're in uncharted territory tho Wacabi , no tellin what the DP is of a malted acorn.

I'd think you might have better luck crushing 'em, pick the flesh out, leave the hulls behind, then cook to gelatinize, and mash w/ some 2-row malt.

Best pick out a good name for this drink too. ;)

I'd give it a go, but I'm too old to fight off all the squirrels n deer (for the acorns) out back. :ebiggrin:
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by HolyBear »

Sir Odin, the devil makes acorn brandy? Hmmm, here he lives in a fiddle. That's why kids shouldn't be messing with a fiddle. We'll have him figured out soon too!!!

"Korenwijn" sounds awesome! I'm sure its a great drink if you like it. I would be most honored to receive such a gift though I don't think I could refill it with the same quality that has been in it... but I'll certainly do my best...
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by HolyBear »

Hooch, it was the combination of your ol post about acorns and my past experience picking them that brought me to this point. If it works, I'll let YOU name it!!! Ifn it does work, I'll send you a sample, you'll have to taste it to name it... I'll send it to ya along with something good in "The Bottle"...
Yea when the time comes, I want to have enzymes on hand just in case. Shelling and leaching will be important...
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by whiskeytripping »

This is a interesting and different thread, I hope to hear more on how it turns out Wacabi :thumbup:
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by DavidWatkins »

Wow, I am very impressed with the level of ground breaking going on here. From my time in the South, I've heard a lot about eating acorns and have even drank acorn coffee but I never would have brewed them.

BTW, roasted acorn meat ground into a powder then percolated makes something that isn't coffee but will serve in an emergency. The flavor is hard to describe beyond bitter as all hell, but it will wake you up on a cold morning.
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by whiskeytripping »

You know David I was talking to a buddy the other day leaning up against his truck, I picked out a ripe brown acorn out of the back cracked it and ate it. It was rather pleasant tasting. Not like the ones we tried to eat as a kid that were extremely bitter. It would make an interesting coffee I bet. In brewing it I bet you would get some really oily tails. But the early ones would probably taste like a nutty goodness
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by HolyBear »

Spent all day cracking and peeling the acorns. Man, I thought purple hull pees were bad. Not much progress, not quite a half of a 5gal bucket full for all my effort... still more ta go. They are getting the tannins soaked out now...

Several had worms in them, those will be fed to the pigs. I'm sure they won't mind. I noticed that some of them that had gone bad/turned black, had a mustard like smell. Mustard whisky don't sound too good ta me. "I like mustard on my biscuit"... not in my whisky...
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by junkyard dawg »

Cool thread...

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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by HolyBear »

To anyone who was watching this thread,.. it was a failure.

But, more work is needed to be conclusive...

Malting the acorns was easy, no problem. It was the pealing that effected my efforts. I work allot and was pealing them as I got time, (mostly between changing jars). I had some pealed and added to it each time I made a run. Well, the process of cleaning them is very tedious/ time consuming. I noticed after a few attempts to fill a 5gal bucket, that they had a fungus growing all.over them. Fungus Threads filled the bucket... so I dumped them into the hog trough...

Next fall I'll try again, quick processing will be important...
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by favnesbane »

Working on an acorn mash right now. I found that the mashing was much more complicated than expected. I use european oak, Quercus robur, and it contains a huge lot of tannins, these inhibit the amylase convertion severely. Am now working with methodes to get rid of these tannins before mashing. Experementing with both boiling and cold water leech, and I am happy for every good advise. I am using concentrated alfa-beta amylase from aspergillus. Maybe it would be better using barley for convertion in this case?
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by MDH »

the only solution is to use more alpha amylase than average. Tannins work by denaturing small amounts of amylase, doing a google scholar search will yield many documents about this in humans. If you use extra enzymes and give it time (in an airtight place) you may still be able to do this

good luck.
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by HolyBear »

Favnesbane, thankyou for continueing the effort...
Tanic acid may be the problem, lime may be the solution...

Cows love to eat acorns. Too many acorns can kill a cow. Farmers around here will feed lime this time a year to counteract the acidic effects of acorns... Too high PH...

I should be working on it like i said i would, but time has me blocked right now...p
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by Tater »

remember old fokes talking about makin acorn bread . they put shelled acorns in weighted sack and placed in creek to leech them.
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by ga flatwoods »

Do you think it would concentrate enough for a good deer likker? Like get em hooked on the stuff and move in just before 5:00 pm for the big boy to come belly up!
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by MDH »

Tater wrote:remember old fokes talking about makin acorn bread . they put shelled acorns in weighted sack and placed in creek to leech them.
Yeah, even the native people here in the northwest made flour out of Garry Oak acorns. I sometimes wonder why such a widely used food staple is now mostly unknown to people.
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Re: White Oak Acorn mash???

Post by favnesbane »

Thanks for tips!

At my first attempt I used at least ten times as much amylase as normally needed and still no coversion. I found an article testing tannin effect on amylase shoving that if the tannin level is above a certain level the enzyme converion is zero (depending on the type of tannin), and I guess that was the case in my first attempt. I tried boiling out the tannins by boiling whole acorns and change the water 8 times. I blended them to porridge and used lime to put the ph down to around 5, and after ca. 2 hours of mashing I managed to convert enough starch to give potentially around 5 % alc. in the mash.

I am afraid that the boiling also takes away all the taste of the acorns, so now I am trying cold leech by running the acorns in the blender and putting the blended mash in cold water, changing the water once in a while for a few days. It looks promising already, wondering if I can use some kind of protein powder in the mash to make the rest of the tannins bind to those proteins before I put in the amylase. Anyone know if protein addition can have some unwanted effects on the mash?

It also looks like acorn starch need quite a lot of boiling to gelatinize, at least more than most grains and potatoes.
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