MY first AG

[rgreen2002]

So this is in bits and pieces in other threads mainly because good people were giving me great advice in order to take this plunge into an AG. It isn't quite finished yet but I'm at least up to the part where the wee yeasties work their magic.

SO after about a year reading and the christening of a new addition to the family...Pepper

The new arrival

...I felt a sugar wash just wasn't enough... It's time
I started with Jimbo's Easy 1/2 Barrel Bourbon and Gumballhead recipe with a minor modification...rye instead of wheat (also citric acid instead of backset or lactic acid...). With some help from the man himself along with a few others looking over my math it all looked good.

The Builds:

My grain mill for smashing corn

The new and Improved controller

A little shout out to all that helped with the wiring and other suggestions here... http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 85&t=61846

Stir plate for starter....and starter.

Finally...a wort chiller but since I didn't get to use it...no picture.


The Contents

22 lb of cracked corn - smashed in aforementioned mill
6 lb of 2 row malt
3 lb rye malt
12 gallons H20 brought to a near boil with the gypsum and 15 ml of citric acid (1 tablespoon)
SEBstar HTL and SEBamyl GL at the appropriate time/temps/pH

The Process
Boil 12 gallon H2O with the gypsum and Citric acid as per Jimbo's recipe
Add the 22lb corn to bring it down to temp aroung 180F
Add the SEBstar HTL and stir frequently (about 7 ml)
Wrap it up and wait overnight (about 8 hours in all)
In the am - temps at 140 F - Add 2 row and rye
Stir frequently and add SEBamyl GL (about 7ml again)
Cover and set for 2 hours.
Check conversion
Cool to pitch temp
Pitch
Wait

The Screw Ups
12 gallons of water 10 gallon BOP...
Under judged the MOP (Medium Ole Pot) with its included grain used to assist the undersized BOP
Temps after corn only 170's F
AM temps in 130'sF

The Results

Iodine added...looks yellow to me...

The end result

Full starch conversion (?)
OG: 1.056
Volume approx 10 gallons

Tips

Get a cheap tarp.... do all of this over said tarp
Wringing 31 lb of grain is a pain in the arse. It's doable but have a better plan than hand wringing.
Have appropriate size pot - "Can I Mash It" about 1/2 way down this page... http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Plans
If this sip turns out as good as everybody says it will... will need a bigger pot (Keggle)
Large BIAB that's reinforced and most likely a pulley system ( there is a cheap winch on sale at HF right now..... Hmmmmmm.... )
Some kind of wringing system...mop bucket, etc...

Questions

The mash in the cup...I don't see any black/blue - is this fully converted?
Does the final mash look OK? It just seems cloudy. After the pic it actually settled quite nicely leaving a clear area on top and it tastes quite sweet... but asking all the same.

Many thanks to all that gave assistance on other threads... Every time I get into something new I get the chance to realize what a great place this is...

[biker geek]

What you have done should should work OK. You probably didn't get good conversion of the barley and rye malt, but it should work. You have enough malt in there to not have to use the SEB enzymes, though they won't hurt. If you put the malt in at around 150 you'll get good conversion with just malted grain.

[skow69]

1.056 ain't bad. Looks like about 22 ppg, so it's a long way from full conversion, but everyone started somewhere. As I recall, Jimbo uses lots of corn, cuz it's cheap, and doesn't worry too much about getting it all gelatinized.

For the iodine test, just put like a teaspoon of mash on a white plate, add a few drops of iodine and stir.

[rgreen2002]

What you have done should should work OK. You probably didn't get good conversion of the barley and rye malt, but it should work. You have enough malt in there to not have to use the SEB enzymes, though they won't hurt. If you put the malt in at around 150 you'll get good conversion with just malted grain.

Thanks biker geek! I did calculate the DP for the mash and it seemed OK to me as well... then I got a little scared and realized I was using less than 10 ml of enzymes for the mash and thought...the heck with it. I wanted to be more safe than sorry. The enzymes did a great job and I'm sure not complaining.

1.056 ain't bad. Looks like about 22 ppg, so it's a long way from full conversion, but everyone started somewhere. As I recall, Jimbo uses lots of corn, cuz it's cheap, and doesn't worry too much about getting it all gelatinized.

For the iodine test, just put like a teaspoon of mash on a white plate, add a few drops of iodine and stir.

Stages_of_starch_conversion.gif

skow.... thanks man. i didn't think 1.056 was too bad either especially for my first attempt. I spent most of last week reading the ppg threads and visiting a few homebrew sites trying to really understand the ppg thing. Thought I had it and when my calculations only gave me 17 compared to your 22 I thought "well S**T... not there just yet.

As far as iodine: the pic of the cup is a little mash with iodine already in there. About 2 hours prior it was a dark blue/black and then repeated after the 2 hours and that was the result. I thought it converted well. Sure as hell tasted sweet.

[DeepSouth]

What you have done should should work OK. You probably didn't get good conversion of the barley and rye malt, but it should work. You have enough malt in there to not have to use the SEB enzymes, though they won't hurt. If you put the malt in at around 150 you'll get good conversion with just malted grain.

Thanks biker geek! I did calculate the DP for the mash and it seemed OK to me as well... then I got a little scared and realized I was using less than 10 ml of enzymes for the mash and thought...the heck with it. I wanted to be more safe than sorry. The enzymes did a great job and I'm sure not complaining.

1.056 ain't bad. Looks like about 22 ppg, so it's a long way from full conversion, but everyone started somewhere. As I recall, Jimbo uses lots of corn, cuz it's cheap, and doesn't worry too much about getting it all gelatinized.

For the iodine test, just put like a teaspoon of mash on a white plate, add a few drops of iodine and stir.

Stages_of_starch_conversion.gif

skow.... thanks man. i didn't think 1.056 was too bad either especially for my first attempt. I spent most of last week reading the ppg threads and visiting a few homebrew sites trying to really understand the ppg thing. Thought I had it and when my calculations only gave me 17 compared to your 22 I thought "well S**T... not there just yet.

As far as iodine: the pic of the cup is a little mash with iodine already in there. About 2 hours prior it was a dark blue/black and then repeated after the 2 hours and that was the result. I thought it converted well. Sure as hell tasted sweet.

It sounds to me like you converted all the malt and what starches you cooked out of the corn, the problem is that the corn didn't cook long enough to really get all the starch out. You did very well for a first attempt. Did your homework, good job.

[rgreen2002]

Thanks DeepSouth.... I really appreciate that. Makes me feel good about my next go round with this all grain thing! Now I just gotta get my hands on some of that Rich Grain Distilling Co Corn Whisky!

[DeepSouth]

I know a guy who can help you with that! In all seriousness, you'll be making really good all grain whiskey in no time, and in the case of all grain, the juice is definitely worth the squeeze, pun intended.

[rgreen2002]

I have a quick question....I downloaded qbrew and plugged in my ingredients. Qbrew has no selection for corn so I chose generic grain and entered 1.033 like below...

Qbrew Calculation

Does this look right? Should I have expected an OG of 1.096 with the grain bill I used (22 lb corn, 6 lb 2 row, 3lb rye) and came up short like DeepSouth was suggesting? I'm already trying to get the corrections for the next all grain while this one is still in the fermenter! I've been awake for too long....

[HDNB]

i been known to use this one http://www.brewersfriend.com/brewhouse-efficiency/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
pretty much says the same thing as these guys^^^

lots of grains to choose from

[skow69]

That is what I meant about Jimbo using extra corn. You can't get close to that OG without doing a cereal mash, which means cooking the hell out of the corn. But since cracked corn is cheap, why not just use lots of it and spare yourself the pain of the cereal mash. I agree with Deep South that you probably got good conversion of the available starch, but the corn didn't give up its starch because it didn't get gelatinized.

That is why your 1.056 is a respectable result. With this protocol it is assumed that you won't get maximum yield from the corn. The calculator is misleading because it assumes that all grains will hydrate (gelatinize) at mash temperatures. Like you said, it doesn't give you the option of using corn.

[skow69]

Here is the famous chart for hydrating temperatures. The thing is that grains have to soak up lots of water to make their starches available for saccharification. You can see that the usual brewing grains will hydrate at 150 or less.

Gelatinization temperatures.

I know it shows corn at 175, but that is magic and voodoo in my experience. My corn always seems to need 200 and lots of patience.

[rgreen2002]

skow... I am completely with you and thanks for the confirmation! At $8 for 50# of corn I am glad to throw extra in to be sure I've maximized my starch level even if I don't get it all out. Thanks to all of you for sticking with me on this one.... That's one concept down... about another 5 million to go!

[rgreen2002]

Well...I would like to run this post out to completion so that I have a record of the events as a I can recall them... plus it gives everyone a chance to point out changes they would make and such.

Sooooo... I left off with mash in the fermenter bubbling away. Things went slow but well. I finished out at just around FG 1.00 after about 2 weeks of time. I got a lacto infection.... well the mash did, I was unaffected. (http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=62093)

Lactobacillus

Strained the mash off into a few 5 gallon buckets to clear and ran them after about 3 weeks total.

5 plate flute run (my first drinkable product run with the flute). Ran it a little slow at first since I'm still getting the hang of her.

Now I read here that the AG's run a bit different than the sugarheads and I certainly experienced that. The cuts were much more difficult to discern.... I could easily tell the fores and heads. The heads really blended into the hearts and the tails were quite difficult until I really got deep into them.

All in all I have about 2.4L of alcohol out of the run (I'm guessing the beginning volume was about 8 gallons... I lost a little on all the transfers and leaving the trub behind). I ran the ABV down to 20% and it is all airing out right now. I can say that the hearts portion tasted great off the still and once I can make my final cuts this will all go into a barrel I have waiting. I will cut it down to about 62-63% ABV before it goes in.

[HDNB]

curious on the yeast used and the pitch method and temperature. My exerience has been a huge krausen on AG, 4-12" the side of your fermenter looks so clean in that photo.
May be a reason for the slow ferment, i would have expected 4-5 days...but like they say, it's done when it's done. I like the flavour of a slower ferment anyway...post your tasting notes if you get a chance.

[rgreen2002]

curious on the yeast used and the pitch method and temperature. My exerience has been a huge krausen on AG, 4-12" the side of your fermenter looks so clean in that photo.
May be a reason for the slow ferment, i would have expected 4-5 days...but like they say, it's done when it's done. I like the flavour of a slower ferment anyway...post your tasting notes if you get a chance.

HDNB - I used White Labs 070 Bourbon Yeast as the yeast(It was like $8...damned if I didn't want to farm it first). Got some good advice from a few folks here and made a DME starter using about 1/4 lb to 1/4 gallon. Shot for an SG of about 1.045. I made a total of 1500 ml volume and I saved about 250 mL in the fridge for my next ferment.

Yeast

Made a stir plate:

My stir plate

And ran that for about 3 to 4 days ( If I remember correctly... ) and dropped it in the fridge for a day or so since I was not ready to pitch.

I pulled them out of the fridge and let return to room temp, let the wort drop to below 100F and I pitched into the fermenter. There really was never a huge krausen. I ferment in a 20 gallon brute trash can right now (soon to be supplanted by my 55 Gallon drum with steam mash....stay tuned!) It did go a bit slow and I have a feeling this is why the lacto infection was able to take such a hold (slow CO2 production allowed O2 into the not airtight fermenter and BAM....lacto).

Set the aquarium heater to about 72 degrees F( the low end of where the yeast optimize according to white labs) and let them rip.... or dawdle....whichever.

As far as tasting.... right off the still it was difficult. Folks here say the AG is harder on the cuts and I can see that as true. The head/heart was tough but the heart/tail was quite difficult. Its all airing out now. The true hearts off the still were better than anything I have made so far. SO much so that its time to get on to the next one!

[rgreen2002]

OK...here is how this all went down...please chime in if something sounds off...

So I ended up collecting about 2400ml (12 jars) for cuts. I pulled about 300 ml of fores and heads to throw off before the 2400ml. My first jar of 200ml I also deemed as heads and cut it our (2200ml now.)

The cuts were tough! Nothing like sugar. The smell was intoxicating in its own right and the taste was smooth when cut with H2O. What I would have considered "wet dog" seemed to be in every jar...just a hint. As I progressed to the 10th jar though it was a big change (consistent with a proof drop in the run) and the jar was slightly cloudy.

I decided that everything from jars 1 to 9 were useable and 10-12 were our (another approx 600ml... so down to about 1500 total)

Mixed this and split a little 50/50 with water for a taste test. It has a good taste with nearly no bite and just a HINT of the tails....

Cut this to 62% ABV with 500ml H20 and I put the 2L into my 3l barrel (last used for a sweetfeed, rinsed cleaned and filled with H20 for storage).

Will let her sit for about 3 months... the wait begins!!!

[rgreen2002]

OK... Just wanted to bring this one full circle. I just moved the bourbon from the barrel to the jug today (a little over 3 months in the barrel). I ended up with about a liter of just over 60% ABV which I cut to about 88 proof with distilled water.

Had a small glass.... it was amazing!!! So smooth... no burn at all and the slight corn aftertaste going down... SOLD!

My second bourbon is aging in my Badmo barrel and I cannot wait for that one either. I am an all grain convert! Praise the All Grain!