Notable species of this class include some that produce some of the worst toxins on the planet.
Clostridium perfringens (gangrene, food poisoning)
Clostridium tetani (tetanus)
Clostridium botulinum (botulism)
I would like to think that a 4% ethanol solution would wipe these out before they had a chance to contaminate a wash.
My infected peated Malt Whisky
Moderator: Site Moderator
- kiwi Bruce
- Distiller
- Posts: 2324
- Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:38 pm
- Location: Transplanted Kiwi living in the States
Re: My infected peated Malt Whisky
Getting hung up all day on smiles
- der wo
- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 3817
- Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:40 am
- Location: Rote Flora, Hamburg
Re: My infected peated Malt Whisky
Arroyo recommends washes not to go over 8%, because:kiwi Bruce wrote:I would like to think that a 4% ethanol solution would wipe these out before they had a chance to contaminate a wash.
"...and care is observed to assure that an increase of alcoholic concentration above 8 percent is not provoked until the desired bacterial action has occurred."
So at least the Clostrodia he wants can stand 8% without problems. And they don't choose a specific Clostridia. The simply dump the dunder in a hole in the backjard.
And for sure they don't pour precious alcohol into their pits.
Don't drink infected dunder. Don't touch it for example with wound hands. Wash your hands after working with it.
In this way, imperialism brings catastrophe as a mode of existence back from the periphery of capitalist development to its point of departure. - Rosa Luxemburg
- kiwi Bruce
- Distiller
- Posts: 2324
- Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:38 pm
- Location: Transplanted Kiwi living in the States
Re: My infected peated Malt Whisky
I just found this...now it's starting to make a lot of sense...from wiki
Though spores of C. botulinum are heat-resistant, the toxin produced by bacteria growing out of the spores under anaerobic conditions is destroyed by boiling (for example, at internal temperature greater than 85 °C for 5 minutes or longer).
Looking into the other toxins as well...but it would seem... stillin does the killin !
Though spores of C. botulinum are heat-resistant, the toxin produced by bacteria growing out of the spores under anaerobic conditions is destroyed by boiling (for example, at internal temperature greater than 85 °C for 5 minutes or longer).
Looking into the other toxins as well...but it would seem... stillin does the killin !
Getting hung up all day on smiles
- der wo
- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 3817
- Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:40 am
- Location: Rote Flora, Hamburg
Re: My infected peated Malt Whisky
Yes. Complicated compounds like bacterial or fungual toxins are mostly solids and have normally a high boiling point, which is a theoretical one, because they are destroyed long before reaching such a temperature.
And it's not only the heat, it's also the high alcohol content in the vapor (or -if a few toxin molecules get entrained- in the low wines), which kills them. The alcohol also kills the spores if really some of them would stand the heat.
And it's not only the heat, it's also the high alcohol content in the vapor (or -if a few toxin molecules get entrained- in the low wines), which kills them. The alcohol also kills the spores if really some of them would stand the heat.
In this way, imperialism brings catastrophe as a mode of existence back from the periphery of capitalist development to its point of departure. - Rosa Luxemburg
- kiwi Bruce
- Distiller
- Posts: 2324
- Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:38 pm
- Location: Transplanted Kiwi living in the States
Re: My infected peated Malt Whisky
I went through a list of potentially harmful soil born Bacteria.[*] Most are heat resistant (eg C. botulinum can withstand boiling for over a hour and survive) But their toxins, which are proteins, are heat sensitive and break down within 5 minutes at temperatures of 185f (85c) and above. So it would appear, that as bad as a muck pot/dunder pit or a bacterial fermentation in a distillers beer may appear, for our purposes, it's safe ! So the production of alcohols, carboxylic acids and esterification, can proceed without the fear of producing any harmful elements in our final product. Good news indeed !
[*]* If anyone would like to see the research I'll start a new thread and put it up...however this will take several day as there is a huge amount of data.
[*]* If anyone would like to see the research I'll start a new thread and put it up...however this will take several day as there is a huge amount of data.
Getting hung up all day on smiles
Re: My infected peated Malt Whisky
Der Wo,
First, thank you for all your experimentation and research. Secondly, and most importantly, thank you for sharing.
My experience has been with grain primarily. Whiskey, and a couple of rice experiments. On the rice, I did two types for reference here. The first was rice and coffee, the second was rice and coco powder.
1. Soaked and steamed rice. I did 10 lbs, for a 5 gallon batch. Soaked and then steamed the rice. Added about 2 gallons of water, held at 150dF for about an hour and a half, and added Alpha, Beta, and Gluco enzymes. Used immersion blender to really break it all down as best I could. Added about a pound of coffee grounds. We like Cafe Bustello so that’s what I added with the enzymes. Let cool overnight. Topped up with about a gallon of multigrain backset, and lastly water. Worked off and let rest about 3 weeks total. Some lacto present at stripping run. There was very little trub remaining. I ran deeep into the tails for all the flavor possible. I put the low wines in a stainless pot, adding day old cold coffee, used coffee grounds, and some whey from Greek yogurt. I held the low wines for a week with the additions. Took 3 runs in my air still I use for little experiments like this. Ran first 2, making fores and heads, and again into the tails to get the more intense flavors. Blended it all for a final spirit run with the original low wines. It was awesome. The flavors were still recognizably coffee, but vanilla, fruit, and creaminess. I have it split and some white, some aging on rum barrel chips and a vanilla bean piece, and one on medium heavy toasted light charred new oak and medium toasted cherry and apple- only 1or 2 of the fruits so it doesn’t overpower.
I made a sugarhead with the trub, all the backset, 10lbs sugar, and topped with 1/2 coffee and water. Ran the same way with the addition of the ‘infected dunder.’ It’s honestly hardly noticeable that it is a sugar head aside from a bit of peppery bite. I’ve mixed it with some cooled coffee to proof to 40% and added caramel to one, vanilla caramel powdered creamer, and rum chips to the last.
2. Same as above, but I used a tin of coco instead of coffee. The fruity notes really paired well and provided a smooth drop. I added a few cocoa nibs to a jar with rum chips and a couple of pieces of vanilla bean. The other jar is a bit of brown sugar, vanilla, and rum chips.
I got the idea to try the infected dunder for my whiskeys and other spirits from reading so much of the rum thread. I’m slowly making my way through the pages, and trying things that look or sound good. I’m really excited to see where things progress, as my ultimate goal is a single malt, in a used barrel, that is creamy, vanilla rich, sweet and fruity… can we make the perfect drop that hits all the right spots? I’m sure enjoying the journey to get there!
First, thank you for all your experimentation and research. Secondly, and most importantly, thank you for sharing.
My experience has been with grain primarily. Whiskey, and a couple of rice experiments. On the rice, I did two types for reference here. The first was rice and coffee, the second was rice and coco powder.
1. Soaked and steamed rice. I did 10 lbs, for a 5 gallon batch. Soaked and then steamed the rice. Added about 2 gallons of water, held at 150dF for about an hour and a half, and added Alpha, Beta, and Gluco enzymes. Used immersion blender to really break it all down as best I could. Added about a pound of coffee grounds. We like Cafe Bustello so that’s what I added with the enzymes. Let cool overnight. Topped up with about a gallon of multigrain backset, and lastly water. Worked off and let rest about 3 weeks total. Some lacto present at stripping run. There was very little trub remaining. I ran deeep into the tails for all the flavor possible. I put the low wines in a stainless pot, adding day old cold coffee, used coffee grounds, and some whey from Greek yogurt. I held the low wines for a week with the additions. Took 3 runs in my air still I use for little experiments like this. Ran first 2, making fores and heads, and again into the tails to get the more intense flavors. Blended it all for a final spirit run with the original low wines. It was awesome. The flavors were still recognizably coffee, but vanilla, fruit, and creaminess. I have it split and some white, some aging on rum barrel chips and a vanilla bean piece, and one on medium heavy toasted light charred new oak and medium toasted cherry and apple- only 1or 2 of the fruits so it doesn’t overpower.
I made a sugarhead with the trub, all the backset, 10lbs sugar, and topped with 1/2 coffee and water. Ran the same way with the addition of the ‘infected dunder.’ It’s honestly hardly noticeable that it is a sugar head aside from a bit of peppery bite. I’ve mixed it with some cooled coffee to proof to 40% and added caramel to one, vanilla caramel powdered creamer, and rum chips to the last.
2. Same as above, but I used a tin of coco instead of coffee. The fruity notes really paired well and provided a smooth drop. I added a few cocoa nibs to a jar with rum chips and a couple of pieces of vanilla bean. The other jar is a bit of brown sugar, vanilla, and rum chips.
I got the idea to try the infected dunder for my whiskeys and other spirits from reading so much of the rum thread. I’m slowly making my way through the pages, and trying things that look or sound good. I’m really excited to see where things progress, as my ultimate goal is a single malt, in a used barrel, that is creamy, vanilla rich, sweet and fruity… can we make the perfect drop that hits all the right spots? I’m sure enjoying the journey to get there!
- Twisted Brick
- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 3771
- Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:54 pm
- Location: Craigh Na Dun
Re: My infected peated Malt Whisky
Nanacooks,
If you check his profile, the last time der wo posted was Oct 2018. He will not be responding, as he is no longer a member here and has moved on.
If you check his profile, the last time der wo posted was Oct 2018. He will not be responding, as he is no longer a member here and has moved on.
“Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore, always carry a small snake.”
- W.C. Fields
My EZ Solder Shotgun
My Steam Rig and Manometer
- W.C. Fields
My EZ Solder Shotgun
My Steam Rig and Manometer
- Saltbush Bill
- Site Mod
- Posts: 9677
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
- Location: Northern NSW Australia
Re: My infected peated Malt Whisky
Nanacooks
Where do these "Rum Chips" come from and what are they exactly ? are they marketed and sold by someone or are they something you have made your self from an old Rum barrel......or from staves / sticks used in Rum that you have made yourself?
Where do these "Rum Chips" come from and what are they exactly ? are they marketed and sold by someone or are they something you have made your self from an old Rum barrel......or from staves / sticks used in Rum that you have made yourself?
-
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1738
- Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:17 pm
- Location: Northwest France
Re: My infected peated Malt Whisky
Earlier in the post they were referred to as rum barrel chips.Saltbush Bill wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 2:57 am Nanacooks
Where do these "Rum Chips" come from and what are they exactly ? are they marketed and sold by someone or are they something you have made your self from an old Rum barrel......or from staves / sticks used in Rum that you have made yourself?
"I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway" - Jimbo
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers