Steps in opening a distillery

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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by HDNB »

need a business plan? look at this, find the African brewery and model your info after it.
http://www.bplans.com/site_search/?stq= ... tq=brewery" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow


Consider what you can sell, not what you can make. if you have a retail location in a touristy area maybe you can pull of 15 a bottle you are lucky. expect 5 bucks a crock at wholesale.

if you want to make 5000 a month and have zero overhead, you need a wholesaler that can move 1000 units a month consistently. a "good" selling likker here moves about 1 case per store per month of a quality likker with a name. you do the math on how many stores you need selling your unknown brand.

to make a thousand bottles a month, you need to do about 5 x 1000L ferments at 10% that gives you 65L of absolute alcohol after cuts. 65L cut to 40% is 162.5L or 216 x 750 mL bottles (a fifth)

thats 5 days of mashing, 5 days of stripping and one day of spirit run. (assuming you have multiple fermenters and still kettle of 1350 L (need headroom right?)

then you gotta fill, topper, label and tamperproof each bottle. it will take 2 days with a six head gravity spout and automatic labellizer.

then you gotta deliver to your wholesale account. at least one day.

count on a day for marketing, doing pour, whatever.

we are up to 15 working days per month, have not fixed anything, bought or picked up anything or filled out the myriad of reports....that's another 5 days, and your work month is done.

good luck. :thumbup: :wave:
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by Huffy2k »

Single Malt Yinzer wrote:To give a little more color to what Bluefish said - To get a label (COLA) approved you may need to submit a formula (grain bill or other ingredients/processes) for approval for a specific type of spirit being made. It's not always required but can be required randomly even on non-required requests (yes, it happens). Traditional whiskeys/neutrals wouldn't be super hard. Anything non-traditional would need to go the Distilled Spirits Specially route and would require an approved formula. It's not hard to do but is very time consuming as you can't be certain that any formula will be approved or when. Either way it would present a substantial amount of effort on a distilleries' time and they would have to charge to cover it.

Can it be done? Yes. Would it be expensive? Yes. Would it be awesome? YES!

I do know one distillery in my area that was looking into it. I don't think they pulled the trigger on it due to the expense and complexity of it.
If you're thinking about us, we haven't ruled it out yet! Still on the back burner but definitely not dead yet!
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by bluefish_dist »

I have thought about doing it as well. I have two labels that would be suitable to use, a whiskey and a Bourbon. It just becomes a large time sink as each person would have to come in with wort ( I can buy wort with no real issues) or mash in on site, then we would ferment, distill, put in a barrel, wait, bottle. So it could take several months start to finish. I still have some test batch equipment so 10-15 gallon batches would be easy.
If there is someone in Colorado that really wants to make a small batch of legal whiskey, pm me.
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by Huffy2k »

Bluefish, We have gone as far as putting together a flyer to promote our "be a distiller" program but haven't put it out there yet. We have a jacketed 15 gallon still we would use to mash, a big old pot and a simple copper wort chiller we'd use to ferment. Making only whiskey, we wouldn't need a formula approval and we'd like to let the customer design their own label (with our input) that we would submit for COLA approval. Like you though, the time commitment scared us from pulling the trigger. I do think there would be a demand for this type of program.
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by BoomTown »

HDNB wrote:wanna get some ideas going? copy and paste these headings into an excel spreadsheet column, and then extend the columns with month 1, month 2 etc and start punching in your information.
"1. CASH ON HAND
[Beginning of month]"
2. CASH RECEIPTS
units
(a) Cash Sales
(b) Collections from Credit Accounts
(c) Loan or Other Cash Injection
"3. TOTAL CASH RECEIPTS
[2a + 2b + 2c=3]"
"4. TOTAL CASH AVAILABLE
[Before cash out] (1 + 3)"
5. CASH PAID OUT
(a) Purchases (Merchandise)
(b) Gross Wages (excludes withdrawals)
(c) Payroll Expenses (Taxes, etc.)
(d) Outside Services
(e) Supplies (Office and operating)
(f) Repairs and Maintenance
(g) Advertising
(h) Auto, Delivery, and Travel
(i) Accounting and Legal
(j) Rent
(k) bond
(l) Utilities
(m) Insurance
(n) Taxes (excize and state)
(o) Interest
(p) barrels


(q) Miscellaneous [Unspecified]
(r) Subtotal
"ESSENTIAL OPERATING DATA
[Non-cash flow information]"
A. Sales Volume [Dollars]
B. Accounts Receivable [End of Month]
C. Bad Debt [End of Month]
D. Inventory on Hand [End of Month] (units)
E. Accounts Payable [End of Month]
F. Depreciation
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by Single Malt Yinzer »

Huffy2k wrote:If you're thinking about us, we haven't ruled it out yet! Still on the back burner but definitely not dead yet!
Yes, but I didn't want to tell people you were doing something that you may or may not. Let me know and I can be the guinea pig. You already know I'm going to do a Pgh version of Octomore. You have the peated malt ready to go! :)

I even have a label image ready to go:
FNLsghM0_400x400.jpg
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by TDick »

HDNB wrote:wanna get some ideas going? copy and paste these headings into an excel spreadsheet column, and then extend the columns with month 1, month 2 etc and start punching in your information.
In a previous life - BEFORE PC's - I was required to prepare a 15 month business plan for my division of a national company. It was BRUTAL!
But when it was done I had a firm grasp on my business. In addition, I was required each WEEK to update expected results in revenue compared to plan.
Last day of the month I had to do a final estimate of revenue and expenses and it better be damned close to what the actual numbers turned out to be.
In other words, if you do a plan and go forward, don't stick it in a drawer and forget about it. Use it as a road map and live with it every day.

Also, I became a consultant, VP of a company in that same field. I hated it!
If you go down that road, first of all don't sell yourself short. Anything you give for free will be perceived as having no value. And state the ground rules up front. Once we started billing a company, they expected me to be there every day. Means you have little time for more than one client, and not time to go out and get more.
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by HDNB »

there's a thousand cliches in business...no one plans to fail, they fail to plan! how many times have you heard that?

business is tough. If it wasn't everybody be doin' it. simple fact of the matter is you need to know exactly what you are up to or be in a position to call this a tax write off and a really expensive hobby.

i mean, i can build a car. Sure as shit I ain't gonna try to take on Ford. Dickin' around making whiskey you are never, ever going to take on the Beam corporation or Buffalo Trace, Diago, louis vuitton, in Bev...they are the masters of this business.

but if you can keep your overhead low, watch the pennies and the dollars make a great product at a reasonable price you may get a local following. If you are lucky you'll have tourists to draw from. win a few awards and maybe with really good marketing and a stroke of luck you can get some media hype nationally and create a bigger demand for the product...maybe, just maybe be in a position where you can actually sell more than you can make!

but hey, if you don't buy a ticket...you can't win!
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

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Five years of planning, two years of spending money and a year getting all the permits.

Stuff will bite you, you never saw coming (an additional restroom $5,000, extra sinks $1,000 and so on).

If you have to borrow money, you'll have to have some other pay check while building, to have a time plan you can stick to and make money as soon as possible. That's tough!

We're about to turn our first buck, but it will be a year or three before we turn a profit! I'm probably kegging whiskey as my kid's inheritance.

It's not impossible, just very hard.
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

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DAD300 wrote:Five years of planning, two years of spending money and a year getting all the permits.

Stuff will bite you, you never saw coming (an additional restroom $5,000, extra sinks $1,000 and so on).

If you have to borrow money, you'll have to have some other pay check while building, to have a time plan you can stick to and make money as soon as possible. That's tough!

We're about to turn our first buck, but it will be a year or three before we turn a profit! I'm probably kegging whiskey as my kid's inheritance.

It's not impossible, just very hard.
Yep. And while the work is rewarding, it is also never ending. A bit like being a rancher, cause you have to keep feeding the machines everyday, day in and day out.
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

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Capitol is definitely an issue. Best plan on no revenue for at least 3 years.
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by MoonBreath »

Think out a the box..Creat extra income from being simple..Multiple product thru single recipe dinominations..Rapid age with adjuncts for revenue while ageing small casked limited edition bourbon...Small scale with large volume kettle for any growth or upward curve..Develope a signature recipe worthy of a following ..Sell bed and breakfast opportunities, with apprentice for a day deals..Run customer small batch recipes for revenue..Main thing is a good likker, try gettn some hardware..Push your product, it'll speak for itself ifn it's good enough..
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by rubber duck »

Your biggest hurdle in getting the doors open is going to be your local government people. City planers, building inspectors, fire Marshall, zoning, and such. Depending on where you live most of these folks won't know anything about distilleries except that they saw a TV show about moonshine and a still caused a fire. You had better know fire code and be prepared to educate a lot of folks on building and fire code.

After that figure it's going to cost twice whatever you think it's going to cost.
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by jdetechguy »

Rubber Duck is spot on. And, do not mention a tasting room in your TTB filing anywhere. That is good for a 2-4 week delay while you clarify. The State can be a bigger challenge than the TTB, but you commercial building inspector and fire Marshall need to become your best friends. I also suggest looking for a town that is pro-business.

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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by fqu8847 »

You guys are awesome!!!
We are currently 3 years into this thing (dream-present) been working on opening this since November of 2016. Just about ready to start ground work, and so far the worst part (besides TDOT) has been the local water company. Some people are opposed, and others are staunch supporters, and the rest could care less as long as they don't have to drive 45 minutes to get alcohol! Hahahaha! I believe we have a good game plan, and an even better backup plan. Expecting to be open by summer of 2019.
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by jdetechguy »

fqu8847 wrote:You guys are awesome!!!
We are currently 3 years into this thing (dream-present) been working on opening this since November of 2016. Just about ready to start ground work, and so far the worst part (besides TDOT) has been the local water company. Some people are opposed, and others are staunch supporters, and the rest could care less as long as they don't have to drive 45 minutes to get alcohol! Hahahaha! I believe we have a good game plan, and an even better backup plan. Expecting to be open by summer of 2019.
Congratulations. We started in January. We have our TTB permit. Just waiting on a few supplies required by the State of Ohio. We got fire and building inspection approval already. Water is getting back to me, but our volumes are so little, they told us it's not going to be an issue. We are planning to open in January 2018. We are trying a shoestring model for now. It's been all cash to date. Once we get going, that probably will change. Depends on our motivation. We just want to have some fun.x

The health department is pushing us to get a food license, but they talked to the state inspector, and he clarified for them that we do not need one. Unless we want to serve food. Mostly we just want a tasting room.

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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by bluefish_dist »

My local jurisdiction says ice is food, so be prepared to get a restaurant license if you want to serve drinks. other jurisdictions are different. I know one distillery that was ok as long as they didn't make ice. So they could use bagged ice, but if they had a machine then restaurant license.
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by TDick »

fqu8847 wrote:So we now have a new name, and will be looking at properties February 12th! Starting a new thread to document the journey!
Name: "Old Copper Road Distillery"
Check out the thread to keep up to date on the latest happnings!
I was a little confused, worrying that I was having a brain fart.
Back at some point you were a little down about the name.
Just my opinion I really like the Old Copper Road Distillery" name.
So I played with Photoshop a bit. I must have (hope I) posted it on the other thread.
Hang on to this.
:D
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by fqu8847 »

EXTREMELY NICE, Bamaberry!!
Just saw this on the other thread! That is a beautiful sight indeed!!!
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by MoonBreath »

Any updates..
Noticed ya just quit postn. :yawn:
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by rgreen2002 »

I'm curiouos too MB... followed this one for a while.

Also.... a lot of folks in the thread starting their own... Maybe a new thread for those folks, their businesses and locations so we could pay them a visit!
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by BoomTown »

Hi folks,

As many of you may remember, we gave it a shot a few years back, but I got way-laid by health issues that made us abandon our project. We closed the distillery, but we still own the gear. We had a place to store it for a while, but now the time has come to makes a change.

We'll have to go up to State College Pennsylvania and truck it back to Virginia this week or next. Sure would be nice to sell some of it before we move it, as we'll be paying for storage here until we can get it sold.

The Still pot is electric powered, SS, and works beautifully. We've another 100gal unit we used as a Steam heated Mash Tun, which could also be re-geared to be a 100 gal Pot still. There are various other SS odds and ends, for holding and moving alcohol, too.

Anyone interested is encouraged to PM me, and I'll get back to you.

Thanks guys and gals.

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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by fqu8847 »

First, let me apologize for my long absence. Aside from being busy I have been having difficulty logging in, and was too stubborn to reset my password.
Now that that's over with, THERE HAS BEEN PROGRESS!
We found some HWY frontage property that weighed in at 4.67 ac for $90k
Bought that!
Got screwed on insurance due to a technicality and then fought with them for 2 months (after erecting the fence they REQUIRED around the distillery property) trying to get our initial premium back. They canceled after 3wks saying that since we didn't have a general contractor we couldn't be insured as "Owner-Builders".
I'm cheap and so I can't stand to pay someone for work I can do myself. With that being added in there, I have been indeed doing it myself on my days off from my FT job as a nurse.
We have gotten shitted out of $4k from a design company when their employee went rogue and decided to design our blueprints "off the books" so he could pocket the money, only to now remain waiting on the revised ones from the company owner (September 2017 to present).
We do have a building ready to erect once I get the slab poured and finished. (Was going to do the 2400 sq ft pour myself but cut all the fingers on my left hand on a table saw back in March of 2017... I am ok, and can actually still play my musical instruments) the footers were a big pain since I had to raise everything up 6" for grade after hitting a massive rock in one of the pier footings. All in all $7k in concrete for the footers wasn't a bad price, but considering there is still that same amount or more to be poured, it's not that grand either.

The building will be erected by a contractor, and the concrete will be finished by another one. The anchor bolts, plumbing, grade work, forming, fencing, and steel have so far been done by yours truly. So believe me when I say I have been busy.

Several thousands of dollars over budget, and several months behind schedule, but progress IS PROGRESS! Starting to seem like a government job! BAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by EagleCliffs »

Changing local minds?
Whoever runs the local government, city or county, can quash your application for whatever reason. Go talk to the local commissioners or mayor or whoever and get their blessing before putting together a federal application.
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by EagleCliffs »

As to costs, I strongly recommend that you do not start out with even a 300 gallon still. You will easily spend one or two million before you break even if you do. The same lessons can be learned with a 50 gallon still. The first objective is to learn how to do everything, especially marketing and sales. Those lessons are as learnable with a tiny 50 gallon still as with a larger still. Focus on a plan to keep your operating expenses at or as near zero as possible during this phase. Once you have successful products and a functional sales and marketing system up and running, then you can start spending money on larger equipment that can make enough product to draw a salary from. A large still that you run once a year or even once a quarter is a complete waste of money.
Figure out what niche you will fill. Many craft distillers buy a generic still that can make everything poorly. That is a losing approach. As you grow, buy tiny stills specializing in each product you expand into. Produce quality. You will never succeed as a craft operation if your stuff tastes like all the other middle of the shelf stuff out there.
You should be able to put together a business plan (depending upon your property situation) that costs less than $50,000 to start up, perhaps a lot less. Rule of thumb for start-ups, triple your budgetary number to allow for contingencies. Not a bad estimate. And figure out how to keep your operating expense at or near zero until you have a functioning marketing operation selling product and expanding. It is doable. Set those as goals and think on it until you figure out a plan that works before opening up the wallet. That is what I would recommend.
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery in ENGLAND

Post by Dales59 »

Has anybody on this forum any experience of opening a Distillery in England, UK?

I just cant seem to find any info on the steps necessary, what qualifications needed, health and safety regs required etc.

I have a couple of businesses, so not worried about business plan, sales pipeline, financing etc

Am more interested in legalisation process I need to go thru, certifications needed and even commercial product suppliers because all I seem to find is homebrew suppliers.
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by Odin »

Send me an email. I'll introduce you to the right people.

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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by glenlyon »

HDNB wrote:there's a thousand cliches in business...no one plans to fail, they fail to plan! how many times have you heard that?

business is tough. If it wasn't everybody be doin' it. simple fact of the matter is you need to know exactly what you are up to or be in a position to call this a tax write off and a really expensive hobby.

i mean, i can build a car. Sure as shit I ain't gonna try to take on Ford. Dickin' around making whiskey you are never, ever going to take on the Beam corporation or Buffalo Trace, Diago, louis vuitton, in Bev...they are the masters of this business.

but if you can keep your overhead low, watch the pennies and the dollars make a great product at a reasonable price you may get a local following. If you are lucky you'll have tourists to draw from. win a few awards and maybe with really good marketing and a stroke of luck you can get some media hype nationally and create a bigger demand for the product...maybe, just maybe be in a position where you can actually sell more than you can make!

but hey, if you don't buy a ticket...you can't win!
We are just coming up to our first year in business. We are quite small and operate as a farm gate business. We have two local competitors and many more from two nearby urban centers. Even though we are located out in the stix, we find ourselves actively competing with a wide range of other distilleries, breweries, and plain old fashioned community events.

We wrote a comprehensive business plan to start, but to be honest, I haven't looked at it since we opened our doors. We're too busy just keeping up.

Are we making money? Yes, we are. However, we've had a few things go our way... Our local competitors, don't compete very well and we've beat them hands down in the concept of 'winning your backyard'. We've come to love tourists. We're lucky to be able to make a great product people really like and we sell absolutely everything we produce.

On the downside, everything is expensive and a basic bottle order can set you back $10k in a heartbeat. Overhead, including rent, wages, additional labor, ingredients, botanicals, labeling, marketing, shipping, landscaping, heat and lights all add up in a hurry. Also, by itself, the distillery can't move enough product so you have to cultivate external outlets - which, come with their own set of headaches.

Nobody wants Gin or Vodka. And, although they sell OK at the distillery, our restaurant, and private liquor store clients only want unique ideas - which have forced us to think outside the box. Which in turn, has earned us awards (which, are their own issue) but are very hard to sustain.

We love the business but you better make sure your significant other is on board. Once the distillery starts, there is no more housework. Our place has gone from immaculate to catastrophe. Social life? hahahaha....
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by B_Stilling »

Any update on the last 3 years? :)
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Re: Steps in opening a distillery

Post by Twisted Brick »

B_Stilling wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:11 am Any update on the last 3 years? :)
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