Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing
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- Saltbush Bill
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Re: Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing
If your still is what i think it is you dont need and should never use a needle valve on it
If you did you would be creating a bomb
Product flow from a CM is controlled purely by cooling management.
If you did you would be creating a bomb
Product flow from a CM is controlled purely by cooling management.
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Re: Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing
I hear ya there.
My column is rather short though (20”/50 cm from boiler top to bottom of reflux chamber) and being that I’m already going to stuff some copper mesh inside, I’m not going to have a ton of room for the marbles thus affecting my HETP’s. Also, as has been discussed here ad nauseam, every still and every operator runs differently so in the end the results are subjective to a degree.Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
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Re: Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing
Probably better to start a new topic elsewhere, this is getting way off topic.
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Re: Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing
Rad started this topic to investigate marbles as reflux packing.
I noticed that no one had used etched marbles and I’d like to do my own side by side experiment. Albeit on a smaller scale. I can only benefit from what I learn. Saltbush with all due respect you asked me about my still so I answered.
I noticed that no one had used etched marbles and I’d like to do my own side by side experiment. Albeit on a smaller scale. I can only benefit from what I learn. Saltbush with all due respect you asked me about my still so I answered.
Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
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Re: Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing
I meant if further discussion on needle valves and how reflux stills are run, if the whys , whens and hows was needed ......nothing more than that.Stonecutter wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:13 pm Saltbush with all due respect you asked me about my still so I answered.
Re: Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing
I tried something similar but smaller, glass beads for sterilising manicure equipmentga flatwoods wrote: ↑Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:09 am Instead of round marbles what about using the flat ones like used for fish tanks or clear vase displays for flowers. They come multicolored and are sold at most stores in the craft section.
... Not good as the void spaces are irregular causing lower vapour velocity, channeling and easily causing flooding.
I've tried glass spheres (listed as slingshot/catapult ammunition!) of 10mm, 7mm, 6mm and 3mm diameter
... smaller = better.
(simple theory gives HETP proportional to diameter)
The 3mm glass spheres give a HETP of about 50mm at 2:1 reflux ratio in my 25mm diameter all glass thermally insulated column.
(I had difficulty estimating the hetp as the difference between 6 and 7 plates is quite small when starting at c40%ABV)
PS beads with holes through them cause the holdup to be quite high which results in the smearing of fractions
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Re: Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing
I’m simply looking at etched vs polished. Still_Stirrin used 1/2” to great effect and rad used 5/8”. I looked through the topic and I know there was quite a bit of talk regarding marble size. I’m not sure how conclusive the results were though. I believe like you stated, flooding becomes an issue with less void for the liquid to move through.
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Re: Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing
Thanks for keeping us on the straight and narrow BillSaltbush Bill wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:46 amI meant if further discussion on needle valves and how reflux stills are run, if the whys , whens and hows was needed ......nothing more than that.Stonecutter wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:13 pm Saltbush with all due respect you asked me about my still so I answered.
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Re: Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing
Clear Glass Marbles 1/2" in...
These are the marbles I bought but I’m concerned about the chemical makeup of this glass. What do you guys think? Is this going to be safe to place in the column?
These are the marbles I bought but I’m concerned about the chemical makeup of this glass. What do you guys think? Is this going to be safe to place in the column?
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Re: Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing
They’re GLASS! When you drink a highball in a glass, do you worry about the formulation of ingredients that was used to make the glass? Do you know how they make a crystal champagne glass? And yet, we all drink from them.Stonecutter wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:05 pmThese are the marbles I bought but I’m concerned about the chemical makeup of this glass. What do you guys think? Is this going to be safe to place in the column?
I think people worry way too much about the composition of the marbles. Glass is glass and your alcohol won’t affect it at all. And you can spend a lot of cash to get “etched marbles” and maybe it will improve the HETP a little. But will it be worth it? Making the column 10% taller will easily compensate for any etching improvements.
My experience with glass marbles, yes...the ones from the hobby shop, work fine. And if (and when) they break or crack, it is easy and economical to replace the damaged marbles, if needed.
The glass is a good thermal insulator so it allows a very efficient heat transfer between rising vapors (hot) and falling condensate (cool) stimulating the reflux interaction. Sure, structured packing or rashig rings are better for reflux, but they are much more expensive. I considered cost versus effectiveness and maintenance and the marbles win hands down!
In my 39” tall 2” OD copper column, the 13mm (1/2”) marbles work great (95%ABV). Slightly smaller diameter would probably be slightly more effective, but the 13mm are a standard size and as such....quite inexpensive. Less than $10USD fills my column, with extra marbles to spare. Try to match that with scrubbies, SPP, or rashig rings!
And the best part....you simply pour them into the column (gently) and empty them out by pouring as well. I soak them in a plastic jug of hot water to clean them and then put them into an old pillow case to dry store. Easy as can be!
ss
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Re: Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing
You know when you’re getting knocked upside the head by SS it’s a safe bet that you’re good to go. Thanks for putting my concerns at ease Brotha.
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Re: Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing
+1still_stirrin wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:25 pm I think people worry way too much about the composition of the marbles. Glass is glass and your alcohol won’t affect it at all. And you can spend a lot of cash to get “etched marbles” and maybe it will improve the HETP a little. But will it be worth it? Making the column 10% taller will easily compensate for any etching improvements.
I personally like the 10 - 11mm one for the 2" column..
And work very good when for used in hybrid mode in the reflux column.. good for compressing the heads, pot mode for the body..
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Re: Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing
Good point.still_stirrin wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:25 pm Making the column 10% taller will easily compensate for any etching improvements.
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Re: Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing
Are all glass marbles safe for us in distilling?
Picked up a bunch of blue glass marbles today but slightly concerned that they may not be safe for use?
Picked up a bunch of blue glass marbles today but slightly concerned that they may not be safe for use?
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Re: Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing
I can't imagine why they wouldn't be ok..AppleWood50 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:44 am Are all glass marbles safe for us in distilling?
Picked up a bunch of blue glass marbles today but slightly concerned that they may not be safe for use?
A403971C-1FB4-4DB1-BBCC-BAA3FCE1011F.jpeg
Now I know how you claim azeo so easy, it's based on a meat thermometer. :lol:
Re: Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing
Check for lead before use.drmiller100 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:13 pmI can't imagine why they wouldn't be ok..AppleWood50 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:44 am Are all glass marbles safe for us in distilling?
Picked up a bunch of blue glass marbles today but slightly concerned that they may not be safe for use?
A403971C-1FB4-4DB1-BBCC-BAA3FCE1011F.jpeg
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Re: Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing
Got to say, this was a surprise! Lead in children’s Marbles? But I can totally see what you mean. Done some research and apparently some are 31%+ lead. Not sure if this changes for children’s ones.acfixer69 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:58 pmCheck for lead before use.drmiller100 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:13 pmI can't imagine why they wouldn't be ok..AppleWood50 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:44 am Are all glass marbles safe for us in distilling?
Picked up a bunch of blue glass marbles today but slightly concerned that they may not be safe for use?
A403971C-1FB4-4DB1-BBCC-BAA3FCE1011F.jpeg
How is best for checking the lead content of marbles?
I have a big 20kg sack of lava rock, bought way more than I needed for my pond filter system. So might just use that?
Though I’d prefer the marbles as I imagine lava rock could be similar to ceramic saddles, in that they could absorb off flavours from previous runs. And marbles sound way easier to keep clean!
But when it comes down to it, I’d prefer to be safe and introduce no lead whatsoever into my system!
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Re: Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing
Have you ever had champagne from a crystal champagne glass? Crystal glass is made with lead, and you’re here to prove that the lead won’t kill you.
Bear in mind that when glass is made, the sand/silica and lead constituents are heated up to a “plasma”, or molten state. That changes the molecular composition of the glass, binding the elements in a structural lattice. It is extremely unlikely that any of the (individual) components remain “unfused” in the lattice.
So, glass marbles are just as safe to use as those crystal champange glasses are to drink out of. Frankly, I’d be more concerned about the dye that is used to color the marbles than any lead in the glass. But even the dye is fused into the structure. My hobby store marbles have a light blue tint to them and I’ve used the same set of marbles for years without incident.
Paranoid …. what? Why should I be paranoid?
ss
Bear in mind that when glass is made, the sand/silica and lead constituents are heated up to a “plasma”, or molten state. That changes the molecular composition of the glass, binding the elements in a structural lattice. It is extremely unlikely that any of the (individual) components remain “unfused” in the lattice.
So, glass marbles are just as safe to use as those crystal champange glasses are to drink out of. Frankly, I’d be more concerned about the dye that is used to color the marbles than any lead in the glass. But even the dye is fused into the structure. My hobby store marbles have a light blue tint to them and I’ve used the same set of marbles for years without incident.
Paranoid …. what? Why should I be paranoid?
ss
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My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
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Re: Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing
I'm not convinced either way but I'm not sure that sparkling wine at ~13% and 11C is comparable to 95% alcohol vapour and distillate at near boiling. The manufacturers of crystal glasses general say not to put them in a dishwasher as the alloying elements can be dissolved out creating weakness and hazing of the glass.still_stirrin wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2024 4:41 am Have you ever had champagne from a crystal champagne glass? Crystal glass is made with lead, and you’re here to prove that the lead won’t kill you.
Bear in mind that when glass is made, the sand/silica and lead constituents are heated up to a “plasma”, or molten state. That changes the molecular composition of the glass, binding the elements in a structural lattice. It is extremely unlikely that any of the (individual) components remain “unfused” in the lattice.
So, glass marbles are just as safe to use as those crystal champange glasses are to drink out of. Frankly, I’d be more concerned about the dye that is used to color the marbles than any lead in the glass. But even the dye is fused into the structure. My hobby store marbles have a light blue tint to them and I’ve used the same set of marbles for years without incident.
Paranoid …. what? Why should I be paranoid?
ss
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Re: Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing
I propose a test. If anyone has any marbles that they can detect lead in, use them in a reflux column, or just soak them in hot neutral. Then dip a lead test swab into the spirit.
I have the swabs. Anyone who wants to is welcome to send me either the marbles or the spirit, and I will report the results. Theory is wonderful, but it’s hard to argue with empirical evidence.
I have the swabs. Anyone who wants to is welcome to send me either the marbles or the spirit, and I will report the results. Theory is wonderful, but it’s hard to argue with empirical evidence.
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Re: Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing
If you are worried about metals you could always distill it. Metals won't vaporize up.
Oh. Wait.
Oh. Wait.
Now I know how you claim azeo so easy, it's based on a meat thermometer. :lol:
Re: Glass Marbles for Reflux Column Structured Packing
That is something to think about since Lead boils at ~3180°F (1749°C)drmiller100 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2024 9:49 am If you are worried about metals you could always distill it. Metals won't vaporize up.
Oh. Wait.