Procurement" of kegs.

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Procurement" of kegs.

Postby Kegs » Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:49 am

Admin edit I copied this post from another topic and gave it a sticky Hi All,
I just came across this tread and thought I would chime in on the "Procurement" of kegs. Generally speaking, most of the the kegs that are being spoken about here are probably being bought illegally, either unknowingly or knowingly. Kegs that are obtained from sources other than legitimate sales from Keg manufacturers or bought directly from the brewery whose name is on the kegs, usually (99% of the time) would be considered stolen property by their rightful owner.

New 15.5 Gal kegs from manufacturers today run $130-150 (US). Keg conversion/theft is a huge problem today for brewers all over the world. In most states in the US there are laws that the monster brewers (AB-Inbev & Miller Coors) helped create to try to protect their assets. As more and more small craft brewers establish themselves in the market, more of the kegs being discussed here are from very small businesses who are just starting up and can ill afford to lose kegs.

If you look at this single thread alone there are about 11 kegs being discussed here. That is over $1,540 (US) of cost of kegs to replace for the owners. I would encourage you to purchase kegs from manufacturers or legitimate sales outlets for kegs and not knowing be a part of a huge problem.

Here are a few places to legitimately buy kegs:

Franke Bev Systems http://www.franke.com/beveragesystems/d ... iners.html
Sabco http://www.brew-magic.com/
Tosca http://www.toscaltd.com/industriesservedbeerkegs.html
Schaefer http://usedbeerkegs.com/

I write this as an owner of a small company that rents beer kegs to micro-brewers and also suffers through loss thru theft of kegs. So, I would encourage you to do the right thing going forward now that you have more information on the subject. If you were in the keg owners shoes I am pretty sure you would share our opinion.

Thanks for reading an having an open mind.

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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby rad14701 » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:33 am

Thanks, Ben...

I've always held the opinion that obtaining a legally sourced keg is the only way to go... Somebody, and more importantly, everybody, pays to absorb the costs of stolen kegs... Deposits are only meant to be a deterrent to theft and the amount of the deposit does not cover replacement costs in most instances - even if the keg looks worse for wear...

I distinctly remember paying twice as much in deposit as the beer the keg held back in my youth... Keg theft was so bad that we were not only required to pay high deposits but also had to provide legal documentation so they could come after the balance in the event that the keg was not returned... It was the same with beer taps in that we paid more in deposit than it would cost to purchase one so anyone who regularly rented kegs bought their own tap and took good care of it...
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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby bentstick » Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:36 pm

Here in MI they are implementing tagging, documentation, and paper work starting Nov.1 to deter not returning kegs, penalties range from fines to possible jail time for theft.Beware they are watching.
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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby kenfyoozed » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:29 am

Was thinking this weekend after seeing many kegs on craigslist and such. You could buy these kegs for less than the deposit and return them for the deposit. Save enough like this and the extra money made buys you a legal keg! :D
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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby rad14701 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:44 am

kenfyoozed wrote:Was thinking this weekend after seeing many kegs on craigslist and such. You could buy these kegs for less than the deposit and return them for the deposit. Save enough like this and the extra money made buys you a legal keg! :D

I was just doing some more research about keg thefts and that's exactly what people have been doing... A keg with a $10 deposit can fetch $32 or more at the recyclers...

And here is a shocking fact that is only a couple years old, so things might be better or worse now... The theft of beer kegs in the US is so bad that almost one is stolen per US citizen per year, over 300,000, and it costs the beer industry over 5 Billion dollars a year... So if you think your stealing one beer keg doesn't matter, think again...
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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby Prairiepiss » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:19 am

I've been thinking about this a little. They haven't gone to the extremes here as of yet. For keg recovery. But I have a few friends that have kegerators. They go buy a keg give the deposit. But they may keep it for 30 to 180 days. But their intent is to return it to get a new one. So as long as they keep it with the intent of returning it to get another one. They are not breaking any laws are they? Is there a time frame to witch you need to return it? Now if they were to go and try to sell it or scrap it. That's the point in which they are breaking the law. By selling someone else's property. Correct? Are they going to be showing up at their house demanding the keg back? I know if I had one and they showed up. I would be demanding reimbursement for the beer left in the keg.

With that being said. What if they were to brew their own beer and fill the keg while they have it before returning it? Would that be breaking the law?

I'd you have a kegerator you can't go buy a keg ligit and turn it in to get a new one filled. You wouldn't get it back if they would even take it. And then if they did you would still be in possession of someone else's keg. Even though you bought on ligit.

I'm just curious. I would like to inform my friends of what mite come.

Edited to include: Modifying the keg in any way would more then likely be crossing the line. I understand that. That's not what I'm getting at with this post.
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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby kenfyoozed » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:24 am

rad14701 wrote:
kenfyoozed wrote:Was thinking this weekend after seeing many kegs on craigslist and such. You could buy these kegs for less than the deposit and return them for the deposit. Save enough like this and the extra money made buys you a legal keg! :D

I was just doing some more research about keg thefts and that's exactly what people have been doing... A keg with a $10 deposit can fetch $32 or more at the recyclers...

And here is a shocking fact that is only a couple years old, so things might be better or worse now... The theft of beer kegs in the US is so bad that almost one is stolen per US citizen per year, over 300,000, and it costs the beer industry over 5 Billion dollars a year... So if you think your stealing one beer keg doesn't matter, think again...



What I meant is this. I've seen some locally sold for $20. Deposits around here are 50$. Return the keg and pocket $30. Do this 4-5 times and make 120-150$. This should buy you a legal keg. Plus you help to put kegs back into circulation.

Although I have also found some places won't take a keg back unless you have the reciept that you rented. What to do in this case?
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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby rad14701 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:00 am

kenfyoozed wrote:Although I have also found some places won't take a keg back unless you have the reciept that you rented. What to do in this case?

I've also read about that... Some distributors will not return the deposit without the attached paperwork that goes with some kegs these days... But they will take the keg back if you want to get rid of it... There are several different methods being employed...

I've even read topics in several microbrewery forums where they have compared methods of thwarting thefts... Some beer distributors have even taken to buying their kegs back from the scrappers because doing so was cheaper than chasing after the thieves or buying new kegs... I also read where on microbrewery owner had to take on a second job to offset keg losses... That was one business related expense that far exceeded what he had anticipated because his losses were far greater than industry averages...

I just feel sad that our society has gotten to this point... But, then again, I could get on my soapbox about the dumb bastards that make multiple trips back to the drink fountain at restaurants for three of four refills and even do a refill before leaving, like the beverages grow on trees... They know what they are doing is wrong, too... But that's for another day... :problem: :wtf: :evil: :silent:
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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby AKAAB » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:28 pm

How hard is this to figure out? Require a credit card for the deposit and make them sign an agreement to pay the full price of the keg if not returned by a specified due date. Problem solved. Well, not our problem, but the distributor's keg loss problem is...
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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby banter_king » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:39 pm

i know here they take down your license number and you wont get the deposit back unless you show them that license. there is also an attached that they zip tie to the keg when you get it and won't take it back without that either.
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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby Azframer » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:44 pm

Best thing to do is go by a distributor and tell them you want to buy a keg for a smoker. Buy it straight up and you have no problem then. I talked to a salesman at grocery and he said the warehouse would sell them to you if they have some that are not up to par for putting beer in and renting it out. Best thing as you can do to stay on the up and up! :thumbup:
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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby bentstick » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:47 pm

Fact is it is the main Brewers problem. Wife works for a distributor in our area and the loses from this area alone is in to the thousands a year. They are implementing these laws not only for scrapping, theft and ect. but to be able to go back on adults who buy kegs for parties and minors are busted at them. Azframer I tried that here they told me sorry they have to go back.
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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby banter_king » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:09 pm

I believe the whole providing to minors thing is the reason for it here. The deposit isn't that bad as i remember. It is a college town though.
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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby tinker » Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:57 am

So just make the deposit equal to the cost of keg replacement. Discourages minors, and brewer's are protected. Frankly, it's hard to shed a tear for Anheuser Busch, but keg procurement should be done with a conscious.
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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby rad14701 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:29 pm

tinker wrote:So just make the deposit equal to the cost of keg replacement. Discourages minors, and brewer's are protected. Frankly, it's hard to shed a tear for Anheuser Busch, but keg procurement should be done with a conscious.

Not many people would pay $150 or more as the deposit on a half keg of beer...

During my research I read about how some beer distributors call the renter of the keg letting them know that they have a deposit refund waiting for them... Not only does that act as a reminder of the deposit refund but it also reiterates the fact that the distributor now knows that you know they are expecting their keg back...

But I am also aware that many kegs are actually received stolen merchandise and not actually stolen by the end user, but that's no excuse either...

I actually had to suspend my research session the other night because I was getting madder by the minute... :evil:
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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby banter_king » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:35 pm

seems like requiring a credit card with a signature that ok's the cost of the keg should it not be returned. If you included enough time in this for the guys that are using them in kegorators it wouldn't be a problem. Return the keg before 6 months is up, or whatever, and no extra charge. Then there wouldn;t be a need for a deposit. Just a CC like incase you go rockstar on a hotel room. I for one wouldn't mind that at all.
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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby rad14701 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:29 pm

banter_king wrote:seems like requiring a credit card with a signature that ok's the cost of the keg should it not be returned. If you included enough time in this for the guys that are using them in kegorators it wouldn't be a problem. Return the keg before 6 months is up, or whatever, and no extra charge. Then there wouldn;t be a need for a deposit. Just a CC like incase you go rockstar on a hotel room. I for one wouldn't mind that at all.

In the modern age of credit I doubt that any merchant would rely on the credit card still being active in the future... I think they'd take the wise approach and charge the card and then apply the refund back onto it once the keg was returned... The distributors who are already doing that will only apply the refund back onto the card used originally and will not do cash refunds on card-based deposits...
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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby Slowninja » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:31 pm

I actually just bought a used keg from a liquor store.. That 'sells' (rents) the kegs.


As far as i'm concerned, they owned it.. They sold it to me. It's mine.


?
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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby Ian Jay » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:54 pm

Just a thought, but if breweries allowed people to buy their decommissioned kegs then it may help. From my experience, when I have asked I always get a negative response.
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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby rad14701 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:22 am

Slowninja wrote:I actually just bought a used keg from a liquor store.. That 'sells' (rents) the kegs.


As far as i'm concerned, they owned it.. They sold it to me. It's mine.


?

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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby Slowninja » Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:28 pm

Hmmm I wonder why they didn't give me one :shock:

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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby beowoulfe » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:27 am

I was asking about decommissioned kegs today at the local beer outlet. They said they always gave them back to the distributer. She then turned around and asked a guy who turned out to be their distributer about kegs. He looked at me funny and said, "Why don't you just buy a keg of beer and not turn it in!!"

Guess it's who you ask.
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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby rad14701 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:28 pm

beowoulfe wrote:I was asking about decommissioned kegs today at the local beer outlet. They said they always gave them back to the distributer. She then turned around and asked a guy who turned out to be their distributer about kegs. He looked at me funny and said, "Why don't you just buy a keg of beer and not turn it in!!"

Guess it's who you ask.

That guy just collects a paycheck and doesn't own the keg... :think: He could get fired for verbalizing advice like that... :problem: It kinda adds perspective to the depth of the problem... :roll:
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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby LWTCS » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:05 pm

Been noticing more and more of the blue plastic kegs at the brew shop......Reckon the writing will be on the wall soon enough.

I predict job specific boiler sales will rise (as they have) as more of these blue kegs get put into service.
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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby beowoulfe » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:09 pm

After I realized who he was, I was hoping he would say, "Oh, we have a few of those available now", decommissioned kegs that is.

I kinda looked at him funny as I left.

Hell, I couldn't drink that much beer anyway. lol
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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby Slowninja » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:09 pm

It would take me a long time to finish a keg of beer....


At least a weekend.
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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby Husker » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:00 pm

Original post by FreeMountainHermit, here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=27728

FreeMountainHermit wrote:
Hentai wrote:I am currently looking for another keg.


100% LEGAL !!!!!!! I have bought from them. They are also available set up for 2 inch or 4 inch tri-clamps ready to attach your copper.


http://thevintnervault.com/product/3381/Used-Kegs.html

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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby NcHooch » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:29 am

You can also purchase brand new kegs from these fellas ... no minimum order and not bad pricing either .
http://www.geemacher.com/
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Re: Procurement" of kegs.

Postby Husker » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:55 am

NcHooch wrote:You can also purchase brand new kegs from these fellas ... no minimum order and not bad pricing either .
http://www.geemacher.com/


$143 for a 1/2 barrel for a new keg (qty 1), certainly is about as cheap as you are EVERY going to find one. I wonder what their shipping cost are, but the sales price is really not bad for a new keg.

Yes, this is a HELL of a lot more than most ppl spend on them. However, this does provide options to actually obtain 100% legal (and provable legal) kegs.

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