to strip or to spirit run?

[Pepper0715]

so i understand that a stripping run reduces the time to distill large volume mashes. it pulls out as fast as you can. this is a fast process, say for example a 13 gallon pot, no thumper with a 10g mash takes 3 hrs to strip and get 1 gallon. then the spirit run comes next

spirit run aids in flavor.. so again, we have a 13g pot still no thumper, but with only, say a 4 gallons of water and the 1 gallon of striping run product, for a grand total of 5 gallons. now we run slow. it takes another 4 hours.
so
stripping run took 3 hrs lost some flavor
spirit run to 4 hrs
total run time of 7 hrs.including alot of break down and cleaning and resetting up.why? other than mash size, why not do a slow 7 hr run to start wtih so you can savor the flavers? seems like alot of work to do both (mash size dependent), plus your flavor lose durning the stripping run would be avoided....

my first two runs were slow and low spirit runs (only because i was new). the flavor carryed over well. took along time. i even post here about how to speed things up.the last two runs were stripping runs. i ran hot and fast. aka i sped things up.

now i know whats best for me
yes stripping was way quicker, did i lose flaver? IMO, yes alot of it, just smells like alcohol, no fruity notes at all and i must say it seems a bit more harsh to the taste. they taste and smell nothing like my first to runs. NOTHING LIKE

i have one more 10g all corn mash ready to go and i may dump what i collected from the two striping runs into this one and run slow and low to try and salvage some flavor that i stripped out.

after running both ways i have concluded im not a stripping run fan for my 13g setup and the reason is there is very little flavor that comes over and i like flavor. its slow and low going forward on my 10g mashes. opinions welcome.

[Laredo7mm]

From my understanding, most people don’t usually do a spirit run containing just one stripping run. There are multiple stripping runs in one spirit run. I need 3 stripping runs to fill my pot to do 1 spirit run. I would think your loss of flavor came from adding 4 gallons of water to your 1 gallon stripping run. I think the theory behind a spirit run is to have a higher amount of alcohol in your boiler than you would with just your fermented mash. This larger volume of alcohol allows the distiller to make more accurate cuts with less smearing.

I have a 16 gallon boiler. I ferment 15 gallons of wash/mash to fill the boiler. Is that too full? Some say yes, but I have no issues with it as long as I pay attention to the kettle temp and decrease the power when she is around 185F. Sometimes she pukes a bit, but it all washes back down. My OG is 1.088 and FG is 0.096. I collect 4 gallons from each stripping run. I take off fores/heads like I would during a one and done run, and start collecting at a still head temp of 173.5F and stop at 208 or 210. All the flavor you could ever want, and then some, is in that 4 gallons of stripped likker. I collect at about 2 gallons per hour during a stripping run. Strip 3 runs, put all 12 gallons into the boiler, add water if needed to get down to 40% alcohol, then do my spirit run.

[IAmPistolPete]

What was the ABV of your wash and what was the ABV of your total collection of low wines? 1 gallon low wines from a 10 gallon mash sounds like you may have left a lot of everything in the boiler

[Laredo7mm]

What was the ABV of your wash and what was the ABV of your total collection of low wines? 1 gallon low wines from a 10 gallon mash sounds like you may have left a lot of everything in the boiler

I was going to ask the same thing. I know I run a bit higher OG than most people, but I would think from a 10 gallon batch at 8% you should still be able to collect a couple of gallons or more.

[Yummyrum]

From my understanding, most people don’t usually do a spirit run containing just one stripping run. There are multiple stripping runs in one spirit run. I need 3 stripping runs to fill my pot to do 1 spirit run.

Exactly . If run correctly , it should take about the same time to do a spirit run on 1 gal or 10 gal . So it makes the most sense to have the biggest boiler charge you can for your spirit run . Why sit around waiting 6 hours for a pint of product when you could get 4 in the same amount if time .

I would think your loss of flavor came from adding 4 gallons of water to your 1 gallon stripping run.

Definitely . If you have stripped your beer low enough , there should be no need to add any water .

Water is added to help clean up a Nuetral in a spirit run , but that is exactly what you don’t want happening in a Flavoured Spirit .

[jonnys_spirit]

Double pot still distillation = two runs. Strip run then spirit run.

In a commercial facility they might have a dedicated larger stripping still and smaller spirit stil. Simple pot stills.

In a home setup most folks operate one still - maybe a 15g keg or similar. We will mash and ferment a batch large enough to do three to four strips.

On a strip run we typically run hard and fast and strip out all the alcohol into a single receiving vessel - until the average total abv is in the 25-40% range. With a 1.070'ish mash this is about 1/3 the volume of the boiler charge. The output of a strip run is called "Low Wines". 15g strip run produces about 5 gallons of low wines.

The spirit run is when we then charge the pot still boiler with the low wines from eg; three stripping runs. ~15g low wines.

You then run it slower (pencil lead sized stream out of the product condenser) and collect the output into 25-30 numbered jars. Those jars are called fractions.

Once done, you then decide your cuts. Fores, Heads, Hearts, Tails. Hearts is what you keep...

A pot still seems pretty straight and simple. But you do have options on what you put into it, how you run it, and how you do your cuts.

Tons more info and discussions in the required reading threads and down into the rabbit hole - and nuances discussed around here daily as well.

That's the 101 on double distillation or what folks refer to as stripping and spirit runs.

Good luck, have fun, and be safe!

Cheers,
jonny

[Renhoekk]

stripping run took 3 hrs lost some flavor

Stripping doesn't really remove anything other than a lot of water. I would counter and say that stripping doesn't cause a loss in flavour - it's just that the stripping run contains a lot of unwanted things that mask the desirable flavours.

The spirit run then refines the low wines and you can make choices about how much flavour you want in the final product.

[Saltbush Bill]

10g mash takes 3 hrs to strip and get 1 gallon.

10gal =38L 1 gal= 3.78 L
Does that 3 hours include heat up ?
If it doesn't you need to get more heat into that thing 1.25 L an hour is aweful slow stripping.
Either way could be stripping a lot faster and getting more low wines from a wash that size.

[Pepper0715]

hahahahaha. some of yall are just to literal for my taste. ALL I'm saying is that I prefer spirit runs to stripping runs. I had no intention of inferring that I need help with the exact time, gallons etc.
so if thats what you read some where. then my bad for not saying "hypotheticaly speaking"

this was not a help me with me my math post. I stripped ( not sure if that's the right word or not) two10 gallon runs and got about 1.5 gallons each if you must know. every thread is not a must be solved thread.. some threads are just bs's as if we were at the bar hanging out... good info on some of the response.

[Sporacle]

This would be a model for your 13 gallon pot.

Ferment 35 gallons, that should give you 3 by 10 gallon strip runs.

Collect down to under 30abv in total on each three strip runs

Combine all three strip runs and your charge should be around 10gallons, top up with any remaining mash or wash if any is left over if required.

There's a full boiler for a spirit run

Good luck

[Stonecutter]

hahahahaha. some of yall are just to literal for my taste. ALL I'm saying is that I prefer spirit runs to stripping runs. I had no intention of inferring that I need help with the exact time, gallons etc.
so if thats what you read some where. then my bad for not saying "hypotheticaly speaking"

this was not a help me with me my math post. I stripped ( not sure if that's the right word or not) two10 gallon runs and got about 1.5 gallons each if you must know. every thread is not a must be solved thread.. some threads are just bs's as if we were at the bar hanging out... good info on some of the response.

I’m not trying to be rude but you do understand that stripping runs aren’t meant to be drank?

my first two runs were slow and low spirit runs (only because i was new). the flavor carryed over well. took along time. i even post here about how to speed things up.the last two runs were stripping runs. i ran hot and fast. aka i sped things up.

now i know whats best for me
yes stripping was way quicker, did i lose flaver? IMO, yes alot of it, just smells like alcohol, no fruity notes at all and i must say it seems a bit more harsh to the taste. they taste and smell nothing like my first to runs. NOTHING LIKE



after running both ways i have concluded im not a stripping run fan for my 13g setup and the reason is there is very little flavor that comes over and i like flavor. its slow and low going forward on my 10g mashes. opinions welcome.

This is garbage.

[jonnys_spirit]

You know what drinking strip runs does to ya?

[Stonecutter]

Everyone learns differently but laughing at the forum for helping you when in your past threads you’ve admitted to being a “newbie” is BS.
Judging from your posts you’ve got a metric shit ton of learning to do Friend and smirking at the knowledgeable hobbyists that have bothered to reply to this post or any of your other posts is offensive IMO. I’m a novice as well so don’t think I’m trying to preach to you but DAMN Pepper.

[Saltbush Bill]

Nobody was giving you a maths lesson......it was simply to help others here understand how inefficient your stripping runs are/ were.
99% of the world stopped using pounds and gallons when I was a small boy......and that's a while ago now.
It's easy in this hobby to not know what you don't know yet.

[squigglefunk]

it should take about the same time to do a spirit run on 1 gal or 10 gal .

[rubberduck71]

hahahahaha. some of yall are just to literal for my taste. ALL I'm saying is that I prefer spirit runs to stripping runs. I had no intention of inferring that I need help with the exact time, gallons etc.
so if thats what you read some where. then my bad for not saying "hypotheticaly speaking"

this was not a help me with me my math post. I stripped ( not sure if that's the right word or not) two10 gallon runs and got about 1.5 gallons each if you must know. every thread is not a must be solved thread.. some threads are just bs's as if we were at the bar hanging out... good info on some of the response.

Just my opinion, but nothing I've 1x distilled is palatable.

If you seek one & done runs, get a thumper or plated column.

[Stonecutter]

it should take about the same time to do a spirit run on 1 gal or 10 gal .

I assume this to refer to the “pencil lead” stream analogy.
You wouldn’t run a 30 gallon pot at the same speed as a 3 gallon pot

[Yummyrum]

it should take about the same time to do a spirit run on 1 gal or 10 gal .

I assume this to refer to the “pencil lead” stream analogy.
You wouldn’t run a 30 gallon pot at the same speed as a 3 gallon pot

Not sure where squiggle quoted me there Stoney .

But to ask what you said in a different way

“ you wouldn’t run a 3 gal Pot at the same speed as a 30gal Pot”
We would all consider that was way too much power and would smear the bejeezus out of it .
So the pencil lead would only be a 1/10 ( if you could imagine that) of how you’d run a 30gal pot .

At the end of the day ( well 6-8hours later ) you would be done collecting from your 3 gal pot . If you had run a 30gal pot , 6-8 hours later , you’d have collected 10x as much .

I hate the pencil lead size stream analogy . It refers to one size charge only .( typically around an 8 gal charge and how big is a pencil lead ) .
Any less charge , and the stream must be reduced accordingly otherwise the run will be smeared .Like wise , bigger charges can be run with a bigger size stream or you’ll be at it all night and half the next day .

[jonnys_spirit]

it should take about the same time to do a spirit run on 1 gal or 10 gal .

I assume this to refer to the “pencil lead” stream analogy.
You wouldn’t run a 30 gallon pot at the same speed as a 3 gallon pot

Not sure where squiggle quoted me there Stoney .

But to ask what you said in a different way

“ you wouldn’t run a 3 gal Pot at the same speed as a 30gal Pot”
We would all consider that was way too much power and would smear the bejeezus out of it .
So the pencil lead would only be a 1/10 ( if you could imagine that) of how you’d run a 30gal pot .

At the end of the day ( well 6-8hours later ) you would be done collecting from your 3 gal pot . If you had run a 30gal pot , 6-8 hours later , you’d have collected 10x as much .

I hate the pencil lead size stream analogy . It refers to one size charge only .( typically around an 8 gal charge and how big is a pencil lead ) .
Any less charge , and the stream must be reduced accordingly otherwise the run will be smeared .Like wise , bigger charges can be run with a bigger size stream or you’ll be at it all night and half the next day .

I recently did a spirit run using the number of jars (24) and run time (6hrs) to dial in my takeoff rate which came up to approximately 2k7W on a 16g boiler charge. Instead of eyeballing the pencil lead sized stream. Turned out to be about 4x 800ml jars/hr rate. Glad I did that and learned something new

Thank you to the folks that’re always talking about l/hr collection rates. Finally sunk in

Cheers!
-j

[jonnys_spirit]

hahahahaha. some of yall are just to literal for my taste. ALL I'm saying is that I prefer spirit runs to stripping runs. I had no intention of inferring that I need help with the exact time, gallons etc.
so if thats what you read some where. then my bad for not saying "hypotheticaly speaking"

this was not a help me with me my math post. I stripped ( not sure if that's the right word or not) two10 gallon runs and got about 1.5 gallons each if you must know. every thread is not a must be solved thread.. some threads are just bs's as if we were at the bar hanging out... good info on some of the response.

You’re posts are all over the place on a public forum. You don’t own this thread and neither does anyone else

Cheers,
J

[Saltbush Bill]

Turned out to be about 4x 800ml jars/hr rate. Glad I did that and learned something new

Thank you to the folks that’re always talking about l/hr collection rates. Finally sunk in

So 3.2L or 3200ml an hour.
Faster than I would have thought for a pot still run, but then I'm a novice with pot stills, 99% of my spirit run experience is with plated and packed columns.
I'm finding the figures in LPH for pottys that you guys are putting up very interesting.
What approximate charge and ABV was that take off rate for jonnys_spirit ?
Been pot stilling single malt lately, hence the interest

[JustinNZ]

I’m interested in speed too. I did a 50L @ 40% rum spirit run on my new 240volt 2000watt still with its 4 inch diameter, 50cm tall riser and ‘big’ (I haven’t measured it yet) Liebig condenser and I was getting 3.75L per hour typically. When I made my cuts I thought the rum had less flavour than normal - although it was very clear when tails kicked in. I do SBB rums. Maybe it was too fast (getting a controller soon) or maybe it had something to do with the column size. Anyway, I’ll find out in a year if I’m worrying about nothing. Always interesting to hear how other people run their pot stills. Glad something good has come out of this slightly bizarre thread.

[jonnys_spirit]

Turned out to be about 4x 800ml jars/hr rate. Glad I did that and learned something new

Thank you to the folks that’re always talking about l/hr collection rates. Finally sunk in

So 3.2L or 3200ml an hour.
Faster than I would have thought for a pot still run, but then I'm a novice with pot stills, 99% of my spirit run experience is with plated and packed columns.
I'm finding the figures in LPH for pottys that you guys are putting up very interesting.
What approximate charge and ABV was that take off rate for jonnys_spirit ?
Been pot stilling single malt lately, hence the interest

That run was about 15-16 gallons of just a hair under 30%abv and it of course slowed down a bit towards the middle and a bit more towards the end of the run for 24 jars @ 6h. Plus some fores and stripping out a gallon at the very end. 8h start to finish. I’m also interested in other folks sweet spot. I was very happy with my results and wouldn’t mind running a bit faster either.

Cheers,
J

[Twisted Brick]

Jonny,

Per the collection sheet I posted the other day, heads collection was 4.8lph, during hearts it dropped to 4.3lph, and then 4lph, 3.6lph into the tails.

[jonnys_spirit]

Jonny,

Per the collection sheet I posted the other day, heads collection was 4.8lph, during hearts it dropped to 4.3lph, and then 4lph, 3.6lph into the tails.

Thanks Twisted! Man that's a lot faster! About 4h for 24 jars instead of 6h. That would make a good six hour run from heat up to shutting it off... I'm doing that next time.

Cheers,
j

[higgins]

Wow! You are talking pot stills, right? That is really fast.
Mine is a 2" and I normally run 8-10 gallons (30-38 L) low wines @ 25-28%, aiming for about 1.5 LPH over 24 12 oz (350 ml) jars.
My last bourbon I ran at 3.5 LPH to see if I could get results as good.
In my opinion it smeared a lot, so much so that I had a hard time making cuts. In fact, before emptying the leftovers from the still, I poured it all back in, then re-ran it the next day at 1.5 LPH.

My next run is going to be on my new 4" 3 plate flute, so it will be totally different.

[Twisted Brick]

Wow! You are talking pot stills, right? That is really fast.
Mine is a 2" and I normally run 8-10 gallons (30-38 L) low wines @ 25-28%, aiming for about 1.5 LPH over 24 12 oz (350 ml) jars.
My last bourbon I ran at 3.5 LPH to see if I could get results as good.
In my opinion it smeared a lot, so much so that I had a hard time making cuts. In fact, before emptying the leftovers from the still, I poured it all back in, then re-ran it the next day at 1.5 LPH.

My next run is going to be on my new 4" 3 plate flute, so it will be totally different.

Yessir. 3" pot reduced to 2" at the condenser. I've never really considered it fast - it's just what I get after collecting 200ml fores at a slow drip (~25min) and then increasing (NG) power to just where a broken stream becomes unbroken and steady. I go through really sloooow warm ups (both runs) of 75-90min, which admittedly adds to run time.
.

[Wildcats]

Wow! You are talking pot stills, right? That is really fast.
Mine is a 2" and I normally run 8-10 gallons (30-38 L) low wines @ 25-28%, aiming for about 1.5 LPH over 24 12 oz (350 ml) jars.
My last bourbon I ran at 3.5 LPH to see if I could get results as good.
In my opinion it smeared a lot, so much so that I had a hard time making cuts. In fact, before emptying the leftovers from the still, I poured it all back in, then re-ran it the next day at 1.5 LPH.

My next run is going to be on my new 4" 3 plate flute, so it will be totally different.

Yessir. 3" pot reduced to 2" at the condenser. I've never really considered it fast - it's just what I get after collecting 200ml fores at a slow drip (~25min) and then increasing (NG) power to just where a broken stream becomes unbroken and steady. I go through really sloooow warm ups (both runs) of 75-90min, which admittedly adds to run time.
.

I've been reading this. Got a chance to do my first run today. Looks like I could've turned up the heat a lot more.

[Twisted Brick]

I've been reading this. Got a chance to do my first run today. Looks like I could've turned up the heat a lot more.

Was it a strip?

[Wildcats]

I've been reading this. Got a chance to do my first run today. Looks like I could've turned up the heat a lot more.

Was it a strip?

It was my sacrificial run . I charged the boiler with 3 gal low wines @40* and 3 gal SSS @ 9.8*