Removal of fores and heads one day.... hearts the next?

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Removal of fores and heads one day.... hearts the next?

Postby needmorstuff » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:01 am

For a reflux still - after stripping runs on a full charge @ 30% is it ok to take off the fores and heads on one day and then power off.. then the next day stabilise column and take off the hearts?

I appreciate it isn't as efficient as you have to heat the wash twice.

I'd rather do it this way so that my time in front of the still is broken up and I can be really slow running the fores and heads.
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Re: Removal of fores and heads one day.... hearts the next?

Postby rgreen2002 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:35 am

I have done this a few times and it is certainly doable. It's usually when something "suddenly" came up or some other issue. Unfortunately, that's not exactly how it works as distillation is not that precise when it comes to separating alcohol, water and some of the congeners. What I have noticed is that when you start up the next day you may still find a little "leftover" fores/heads that will come off first, so make sure to do a little smell/taste test to be sure it's what you're looking for.

As for saving time, I'm not sure how much you will save considering you will have 2 heat up times, 2 times to stabilize the column, etc... but you already mentioned that :mrgreen:
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Re: Removal of fores and heads one day.... hearts the next?

Postby needmorstuff » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:53 am

sounds sensible..

I guess its not about the overall time taken but more breaking up the monotony of the different stages.. I dont take tails - soon as I detect them I switch off. So I only have fores-heads and hearts - so if i break those two up it seems less of a chore to me.

The heat up is largely a timing exercise once you know your rig, stabilisation again - whack up cooling (I have a cm) and leave it to do its thing for a half hour.

So I have two stages that require my attention - fores/heads that I take really slowly and hearts that I take a little faster but still slowly.. I'd rather break up those 2 stages to stop myself getting too bored and rushing things.
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Re: Removal of fores and heads one day.... hearts the next?

Postby still_stirrin » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:51 am

Here’s a thought: if your “hearts run” requires too much of your time (to hold your attention), perhaps you’re trying to run too large of a charge.

I understand you’re trying to make a clean neutral with a high reflux, but if it’s taking so much of your time that you can’t get through a still charge in a single day, you may need to reassess your system. And adjust your “distillation day” chores. If you don’t enjoy the process, then adjust it until you do.

Another plan of attack would be to start earlier in the day, making plans for the whole day instead of just a couple of hours after a long days work already. As rgreen said, you can shut down mid run, but it is a waste of energy and clock time.

Good luck, and always stay safe.
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Re: Removal of fores and heads one day.... hearts the next?

Postby Bushman » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:56 am

still_stirrin wrote:Here’s a thought: if your “hearts run” requires too much of your time (to hold your attention), perhaps you’re trying to run too large of a charge.

I understand you’re trying to make a clean neutral with a high reflux, but if it’s taking so much of your time that you can’t get through a still charge in a single day, you may need to reassess your system. And adjust your “distillation day” chores. If you don’t enjoy the process, then adjust it until you do.

Another plan of attack would be to start earlier in the day, making plans for the whole day instead of just a couple of hours after a long days work already. As rgreen said, you can shut down mid run, but it is a waste of energy and clock time.

Good luck, and always stay safe.
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+1, much better method.
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Re: Removal of fores and heads one day.... hearts the next?

Postby needmorstuff » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:05 am

it's a combination of things.. some I haven't included..

take this evening for instance - I plan to workout in my garage (weights) were the still is.. so it's a case of "I'm in here anyway - why not run fores and heads". I can set the boiler going and stabilize it then start collecting and start my workout.. any adjustments etc. can be made in-between exercises or i can break off my exercise to make adjustments.

Then tomorrow i can get the column stabilized again with little involvement, so just the hearts to run after taking off any fores and heads that are still present in the boiler. It would also seem as an added bonus my hearts would be super clean as I am doing fores and heads again, albeit to a much lesser extent.

If it's possible it works well for me and what I will take away is that it is.

thanks all.
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Re: Removal of fores and heads one day.... hearts the next?

Postby der wo » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:27 am

Build a higher column. Then you will be able to run a batch in a fraction of time:
Or run it two times and dilute between. Two fast runs from 10% to 90% are cleaner and faster than one run from 10% to 96%.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=63103&p=7507268#p7507268

Edit: And instead to invest so much time on the foreshots, do it faster and then let the distillate air for a week, perhaps first undiluted then diluted.
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Re: Removal of fores and heads one day.... hearts the next?

Postby needmorstuff » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:33 am

funnily enough I read that thread today - there are a lot of smart people on this forum! present company included...

I have already done 3 x stripping runs with my pot head.. this will be my spirit run to as close to 96% as I can get (1st real run with my SPP)

I definitely want a new column, I have the fabled t500. Just looking at sources for various bits.. I haven't the experience or tools for a build at this time but if I did I would want a 3" x 50-60" VM on a 10 gallon keg and a pot head with a gin basket option.. so if anyone in the uk wants to build that for me I'd be especially grateful ;-)
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Re: Removal of fores and heads one day.... hearts the next?

Postby der wo » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:45 am

needmorstuff wrote:I have already done 3 x stripping runs with my pot head.. this will be my spirit run to as close to 96% as I can get (1st real run with my SPP)

This is exactly, what I consider for a waste of time. Instead of running it drip drip drip to 96%, let it piss 90% like a horse, dilute again (to 20% for example. The lower the better) and again to 90%. I know, this is an idea not many here have tried. But for 90% you need 3 plates, for 96% you need 11 plates. Two times 3 plates is much faster than one time 11 plates.
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Re: Removal of fores and heads one day.... hearts the next?

Postby needmorstuff » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:51 am

hehe - I like that.

when i say 3 stripping runs, I mean 3 x 25l low wines stripped - then combined for my spirit run.

If you think that's a waste of time - I used to do my strip washes slow to 92% as well using the reflux column. Having the pot head makes it so much faster.

The t500 will never piss like a horse i am afraid.. I could get a steady stream but its not built for speed.. the synthetic components in the column head and the 2kw element limit its operational speed.

I need a better still - fact.
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Re: Removal of fores and heads one day.... hearts the next?

Postby Bushman » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:57 am

Der wo nice having you back posting. With my VM my 11 gallon runs were 12-17 hours at 96%, my CM larger diameter column runs are 4-5 hours. I stopped trying to reach 96 and run to 90-92%. Less for whiskey. Your words ring true.
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Re: Removal of fores and heads one day.... hearts the next?

Postby der wo » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:04 am

Stripping is no waste of time.
But then the key to purity is to dilute and rerun in an efficient way. Only a very long column is efficient in producing 96%. With a short column you are more efficient to run it twice (all in all three times).

Yes. A better still would solve many problems. Choose a good column diameter to the wattage you will have, invest in good packing (SPP), at least partially copper, and heigth. LM, RLM, VM or CCVM if you want to make neutrals only. LM if you want also aromatic spirits. No CM for a still mainly for neutrals. And a potstill head for stripping.
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Re: Removal of fores and heads one day.... hearts the next?

Postby needmorstuff » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:12 am

^^all that^^

I am searching and learning.. this one looks interesting for the money - http://destylatorymiedziane.pl/en/reflu ... hor76.html

Not too much choice other than building to us Brits in the EU. Outside the Eu it's going through customs and that's not exactly ideal.
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Re: Removal of fores and heads one day.... hearts the next?

Postby der wo » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:30 am

I can't say something obout the price. But yes, this is a neutral machine. Looks good. A VM with an additional small LM outlet. You should know, both paths are too thin for aromatic products or fast stripping. Not a good still for making Whisky. Are your electric lines solid enough for 4kW? In my country it's limited to 3.6kW. I would have to feed both elements seperate with two lines. I would take the 170cm-Version. And you need column insulation.

I buyed SPP in Poland. Can't say something bad about it.
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Re: Removal of fores and heads one day.... hearts the next?

Postby still_stirrin » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:19 am

Bushman wrote:Der wo nice having you back posting...

+1.

Sorry OP, for the derail. But you’ve got some “top shelf” answers here. Hope you can learn from them.
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Re: Removal of fores and heads one day.... hearts the next?

Postby needmorstuff » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:46 am

I did have concerns about the takeoff sizes of that column.

thanks for the answers everyone. appreciate you taking your time out to share your knowledge.
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