Condenser Controlled Columns

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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Postby Mikey-moo » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:51 am

Boozewaves wrote:I cannot see myself importing corrugated ss tubing from America to the UK, the cost would be prohibitive , I am waiting for my 2 inch to 3 inch reducer to arrive from over the pond and with delivery and customs charge that altogether cost me more than the price of my copper column :wtf: It was the only suitable one I could find though so I had to buy it
. have done many searches and the only corrugated tubes here or in nearby countries are coated in clear lacquer and I doubt I could sand it off or use nitro mors/aircraft stripper to get it off (not something I would like even trace amounts near the inside of the still .


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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Postby jonnys_spirit » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:02 am

jonnys_spirit wrote:ebay has a 3" x 36" stainless spool for $50 w/shipping

https://www.ebay.com/itm/292179939631

I priced out all parts on ebay including a 3" sightglass -

3" x 36" column
3" Sightglass
3" tee
6" extension
3" to 2" reducer for product output
2" 90deg elbow
2" triclamp to 1/2" NPT male/fem for connecting to my existing 36" liebig (until I build a shotty)
3" clamps and ptfe gaskets
2" clamps and ptfe gaskets
$345.- shipped

60" SS gas line for ez-RC
$25.- shipped from amazon

I've already got copper scrubbies but should add then in too for pricing

We're still talking range of $375 - $400 for all parts in SS. Copper and it's more.

I guess 48" packed column would also be mo-betta.

I mean for the occasional neutral run for infusions / etc... COuld do it w/out the sightglass to get it going... Also add deflag later. And plates without sight glasses for some modular capabilities...

I'm mulling it over..

Cheers!
-j


I went ahead and pulled the trigger on this ebay order. I'll pack with copper scrubbies and may move it up to 48" column (ordered 36"). These parts will be coming in over the next month so I'll just keep using my copper pot still head for now and experiment with this CCVM once all arrives. Mostly interested in using this for neutrals though will certainly experiment. I'll start a shotty build sometime soon too.

@kimbodius - I also took your advice on keeping the vapor path 3" until the PC so thanks!

Cheers!
-j
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Postby needmorstuff » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:30 am

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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Postby joshswest » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:51 am

Hello everyone!!

Love the CCVM design and I think im about to pull the trigger on building my own. Here is a crude drawing of what im thinking of doing with a future gin basket attachment for gin runs. The condenser will be crimped on the vapor tube to help with cooling efficiency and turbulence. The condenser is being build out of an old column and extra copper around the house so thats why the odd sizes. Please let me know what you all think before I start building!!

Cheers

IMG_2805.jpg
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Postby still_stirrin » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:04 am

joshswest wrote:....Please let me know what you all think before I start building!!

Here’s a cross reference to your other thread with exactly the same discussion:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=70131&p=7516938#p7516903

Really no need to duplicate the effort again here...
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Postby joshswest » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:08 am

still_stirrin wrote:
joshswest wrote:....Please let me know what you all think before I start building!!

Here’s a cross reference to your other thread with exactly the same discussion:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=70131&p=7516938#p7516903

Really no need to duplicate the effort again here...


Sorry my bad! Just thought I would possibly get some different opinions in a different location. Wont happen again!
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Postby Boozewaves » Wed May 16, 2018 3:55 am

plan.png
plan.png (15.56 KiB) Viewed 193 times
hey all

I finally got all the pieces so planning on doing a ccvm , this will be my first still build , I have been wanting to do this for years but my plans got progressively more complex and costly the more research I did , not to say a ccvm is complex but my first plan was to use a kettle going straight to a condensor in ice water - basically a potstill , then a 2 inch boka , then a 3 inch ccvm , figured I should build one that I will be happy with as a first one ,

could somebody look over this crappy ms paint image and tell me if it will work , i'm pretty sure it will but best to ask in case i'm missing something obvious , I will be using black lava rock as packing and csst hoses as product and reflux condensors each one will be made from 62 inches of csst hose
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Postby greggn » Wed May 16, 2018 6:25 am

> could somebody look over this crappy ms paint image and tell me if it will work

Yes, it will work.

I'm not sure if you have some ulterior motive but those 9" spools needn't be copper. Personally, I'd make them stainless just for ease in cleaning.
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Postby still_stirrin » Wed May 16, 2018 6:28 am

Boozewaves wrote:...could somebody look over this crappy ms paint image and tell me if it will work...

It will work.

A couple of suggestions to consider:

1) Make sure that you’ll be able to pull the reflux condenser up high enough to at least partially unblock the vapor outlet (branch of the Tee fitting). Depending on the length of your CSST condenser, you may find that it knocks all the vapor down before any vapor flows out to the product condenser.

2) Plan for conversion to “potstill mode” by adding a ferrule on top and getting a tri-clover block-off plate. Then, just pull the reflux condenser and close the top...bingo...potstill. And since a potstill doesn’t need a column, make your column segmented so you can remove a long portion of it when possible. TC joints facilitate this wonderfully.

3) For the highest purity takeoff, typically the column height to column ID ratio is 20:1, meaning your 45 inch column may be just a little short. Of course, the packing type will affect purity as will the reflux ratio, but starting with a 20:1 design will get you to azeotropic potential “altitudes”. Shorter, and you may find that in order to get to 95%ABV requires you run below the potential take off rate for a 3” column.

The condenser controlled vapor managed reflux column is a fantastic design (thanks DAD) which is both easy to build and operate. You’ll have much success with it.
ss
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Postby still_stirrin » Wed May 16, 2018 6:42 am

greggn wrote:I'm not sure if you have some ulterior motive but those 9" spools needn't be copper. Personally, I'd make them stainless just for ease in cleaning.

Well, if cost is the key, then a stainless column and piping is the solution.

But all copper piping (and fittings too) would help with sulfur reduction in the vapor flow. Copper is indeed expensive, especially 3” pipe and fittings, but it is easy to solder and will help pull sulfurs out.

Stainless spools can be purchased in a variety of lengths and are easily joined with TC clamps. Makes modularization easy and affordable. Even stainless fittings are available to complete the build, again with TC assembly. It’s a “slam dunk”!
ss
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Postby Boozewaves » Thu May 17, 2018 1:59 am

thanks for you'r input guy's , glad to hear it will work :D
greggn wrote:I'm not sure if you have some ulterior motive but those 9" spools needn't be copper. Personally, I'd make them stainless just for ease in cleaning.


I had already bought them , they were £20 each with delivery , not too bad really ,

Stillstirrin
1 . o.k will consider that , thanks for the advice
2. yes I would like to make brandy eventually for this years christmas presents to people that don't like vodka and apparently a pot still is best for this , everything will be held together by triclamps in this build , they are very handy things
3.how tall would you advise my column to be for a 20:1 ratio , I can add onto it , I do want my first still to be efficient
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Postby still_stirrin » Thu May 17, 2018 6:03 am

Boozewaves wrote:3.how tall would you advise my column to be for a 20:1 ratio , I can add onto it , I do want my first still to be efficient

Can’t you do the math? The ID of the column is 3”....so, 20 x 3” = ????
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Postby Boozewaves » Fri May 18, 2018 1:12 am

still_stirrin wrote:
Boozewaves wrote:3.how tall would you advise my column to be for a 20:1 ratio , I can add onto it , I do want my first still to be efficient

Can’t you do the math? The ID of the column is 3”....so, 20 x 3” = ????


sorry , I genuinely did not know it was that simple to calculate a reflux ratio :oops: , I guess I would need 15 inches extra , thanks for you'r help
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Postby still_stirrin » Fri May 18, 2018 4:26 am

Boozewaves wrote:sorry , I genuinely did not know it was that simple to calculate a reflux ratio :oops: , I guess I would need 15 inches extra , thanks for you'r help

Boozewaves, that is not the reflux ratio or HETP calculation. It is an L/D calculation for optimum reflux potential. It means the best power to vapor flow (speed) relationship and condensing reflux into the packing (and reboiling) should give you the best (optimum) separation of fractions. Of course, type and density of the packing will affect optimum performance.

Reflux ratio is a ratio of the vapor condensed at the RC to the vapor condensed at the PC. It is infinite when all vapor produced is refluxed, ie - no vapor is taken off at the PC. And it is approximately 1:1 when the vapor flow is equally split between the RC and the PC.

HETP is the height equivalent theoretical plates and relates to the number of reboiling & condensing cycles the vapor goes through during the reflux process. It is a theoretical number and not easily calculated.

Sorry to mislead you with the 20:1 ratio. But designing for the optimum length to diameter ratio will get you quickly to an optimum condition for pulling azeotropic alcohol from your still, yet at a nominal power input and vapor production rate to exploit the potential of your still.
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Postby Boozewaves » Fri May 18, 2018 10:32 am

still_stirrin wrote:Boozewaves, that is not the reflux ratio or HETP calculation. It is an L/D calculation for optimum reflux potential. It means the best power to vapor flow (speed) relationship and condensing reflux into the packing (and reboiling) should give you the best (optimum) separation of fractions. Of course, type and density of the packing will affect optimum performance.


o.k I am definetly sold on adding extra height now , I just ordered an extra 18 inches and as Greggn suggested I have ordered a stainless steel piece with triclamp ends and will shorten the copper piece before the join . thank you for the explanation of reflux ratio and calculating the optimal height , i'm sure it will come in handy for future projects ,
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Postby kimbodious » Fri May 18, 2018 12:55 pm

@Boozewaves, you'll end up with a great reflux still that is so easy to operate. :thumbup: The new SS spool section will be perfect for the riser for your pot still (see links to pics in my .signature to see how I flipped over the head of my CCVM to make my pit still). This is the beauty of modular systems where you simply bolt together the components for whatever stilling task you are doing
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Re: Condenser Controlled Columns

Postby Boozewaves » Sun May 20, 2018 1:41 am

kimbodious wrote: The new SS spool section will be perfect for the riser for your pot still (see links to pics in my .signature to see how I flipped over the head of my CCVM to make my pit still). This is the beauty of modular systems where you simply bolt together the components for whatever stilling task you are doing


that looks pretty sweet , I guess I will have all the pieces to do something like that if I order a block off plate and move a condensor coil, I had a look at you'r other links as well that gin basket setup looks interesting , I might try something like that in future as well because I would like to try to make my own absinthe eventually
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