Before I experiment

Distillation methods and improvements.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
scotty
Swill Maker
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:36 am
Location: west curacau

Before I experiment

Post by scotty »

and waste material . Has any one used 5.2 buffer in a lower than recomended proportion to get a result other than 5.2.

I would like a 4.5 buffer. at present, i reduce the ph using acid and then testing on a 250 ml sample-- after i determine how much acis is needed for the sample, I multiply and the results are very good.
I was hoping to reduce the amount of fussing with droppers and multiple testing on the sample.
:D
teach me and correct me if you are my friend
Dnderhead
Angel's Share
Angel's Share
Posts: 13666
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north

Re: Before I experiment

Post by Dnderhead »

lowering the Ph wont do it..causes of excessive fusels.... 5-51/2 PH is ideal
(some causes of excess fusels)
1) high temperature , use lower temps for the type of yeast.
2) type of yeast, some yeast produce more than others
3)make a starter, yeast produce much of the fusels during growth stage
4) aerating wort/wash..see above
5)lower OG, higher alcohol stresses the yeast ..keep below 10-or even 6-7% alcohol
6) rack into secondary, setting on yeast/trub can cause more
some do just the opposite with rum and some types of whisky for the added flavor.
scotty
Swill Maker
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:36 am
Location: west curacau

Re: Before I experiment

Post by scotty »

Dnderhead wrote:lowering the Ph wont do it..causes of excessive fusels.... 5-51/2 PH is ideal
(some causes of excess fusels)
1) high temperature , use lower temps for the type of yeast.
2) type of yeast, some yeast produce more than others
3)make a starter, yeast produce much of the fusels during growth stage
4) aerating wort/wash..see above
5)lower OG, higher alcohol stresses the yeast ..keep below 10-or even 6-7% alcohol
6) rack into secondary, setting on yeast/trub can cause more
some do just the opposite with rum and some types of whisky for the added flavor.

That doesnt answer my question. what are you assuming???
teach me and correct me if you are my friend
Dnderhead
Angel's Share
Angel's Share
Posts: 13666
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north

Re: Before I experiment

Post by Dnderhead »

I miss interrupted your question, but a buffer is made of a acid and base to git down to 4.5 I believe you whould use acetic acid+sodium acetate.
no brew stores are going to carry it, I believe it is avalabul on line. most likely a chemical supply.
scotty
Swill Maker
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:36 am
Location: west curacau

Re: Before I experiment

Post by scotty »

Dnderhead wrote:I miss interrupted your question, but a buffer is made of a acid and base to git down to 4.5 I believe you whould use acetic acid+sodium acetate.
no brew stores are going to carry it, I believe it is avalabul on line. most likely a chemical supply.
im going to see id a less than the recomended amount of 5.2 for a gallon of known ph water will have consistant buffering at some number lass than 5.2
thanks for trying to answer the question.
teach me and correct me if you are my friend
rad14701
retired
Posts: 20865
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:46 pm
Location: New York, USA

Re: Before I experiment

Post by rad14701 »

scotty, rather than trying to brute force the pH using buffers wouldn't be a better idea to figure out why you are having pH problems in the first place...??? Dnderhead DID give the right answer, it just wasn't the answer you wanted to hear... Perhaps my answer is more inline with the actual dilemma... Fix the recipe and you'll fix the pH problem... Stop wasting money trying to account for your mistakes... Blunt, but honest... That's the help you really need... Suck it up, Buttercup...
Dnderhead
Angel's Share
Angel's Share
Posts: 13666
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north

Re: Before I experiment

Post by Dnderhead »

I really do not understand why you want it so low, 5-5.5 is grate, Iv done all grain/fruit/rum and sugar and never bothered with any PH.
sugar is the worst it drops like a rock, but if you do not try to go to high with the alcohol it is ok.I never add acids or alkaline.
fruit can start out high but will also drop, if anything most have problems with to low of PH not to high.
I have played with acids in wine and that is a bitch unless you have all the test kits, because there is different acids, and each one has to be treated differently.
scotty
Swill Maker
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:36 am
Location: west curacau

Re: Before I experiment

Post by scotty »

rad14701 wrote:scotty, rather than trying to brute force the pH using buffers wouldn't be a better idea to figure out why you are having pH problems in the first place...??? Dnderhead DID give the right answer, it just wasn't the answer you wanted to hear... Perhaps my answer is more inline with the actual dilemma... Fix the recipe and you'll fix the pH problem... Stop wasting money trying to account for your mistakes... Blunt, but honest... That's the help you really need... Suck it up, Buttercup...
I'm not havig a problem with PH. I just wanted to know if if it could be done. Thanks for the replys at any rate. I understand what you both are saying. BTW i have never used the 5.2 buffer but am very curious about buffers. I have been reading a few papars written on how to make buffers. it is an extremely interesting subject. :D
teach me and correct me if you are my friend
rad14701
retired
Posts: 20865
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:46 pm
Location: New York, USA

Re: Before I experiment

Post by rad14701 »

Yeah, making buffers probably is an interesting subject... But, because I don't plan on needing them, I'll skip the read for now... Soak up as much information as you can and you can be a resident expert on buffers, along with the few chemist members we have kicking around...
scotty
Swill Maker
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:36 am
Location: west curacau

Re: Before I experiment

Post by scotty »

rad14701 wrote:Yeah, making buffers probably is an interesting subject... But, because I don't plan on needing them, I'll skip the read for now... Soak up as much information as you can and you can be a resident expert on buffers, along with the few chemist members we have kicking around...

Gee thanks lol-- btw, im adapting a 120v/20 amp variac to use to controll the boiler heat-- So far i have been using a ranco controll with a 1 degree diferential. It does not keep the heat on. Now i hope to keep heat applied at less wattage as soon as it starts to produce spirit and have more controllover the head temperature of the still/

I picked the variav up on ebay for 45 dollars shipped- i just ohmed it out and looks sound-- I will use stranded #12 wire. Well wish me luck.

Image

Image


Image



Image
The notches are there so i can remove the front casing and dial without having to disconnect the wires.


The buffer experiment is on hold for a few days. The 14% sugar wash is under lock for 3 days now and is really cooking--sG readings show consistant fermentation in progress
teach me and correct me if you are my friend
scotty
Swill Maker
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:36 am
Location: west curacau

Re: Before I experiment

Post by scotty »

Im testing it with a pot of water--it was a good time to check out my thermometers.

I think i will have to wait till the loaded boiler is ready to go before i get any valuable experience with this gizmo

Image
teach me and correct me if you are my friend
seravitae
Swill Maker
Posts: 225
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:31 pm

Re: Before I experiment

Post by seravitae »

I miss interrupted your question, but a buffer is made of a acid and base to git down to 4.5 I believe you whould use acetic acid+sodium acetate.
no brew stores are going to carry it, I believe it is avalabul on line. most likely a chemical supply.
A buffer is not made of an acid and a base. Otherwise that'd neutralise to form a salt. Buffers require an acid and the acid's conjugate base, or vice versa.

This is important as the purpose of a buffer is to regulate pH, not necessarily keep it neutral.

Scotty - this is also important, as the formulation of the buffer is designed to keep the pH at 5.2 - you cannot use 5.2 buffer to obtain a lower pH than 5.2 unless you add large amounts of strong acid to lower the pH - at which point, you will have completely consumed all of the buffers, so the medium is now unbuffered, so was pointless in the first place. If you want to do low pH washes, then either you will have to formulate your own buffer at a desired pH, or run an unbuffered wash with a strong acid in there.
Usge
retired
Posts: 3243
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:22 am

Re: Before I experiment

Post by Usge »

I use the product 5.2. I've used less than the prescribed tablespoon per 5 gal, stirred well..and it lowered the PH (using a digital PH meter) a bit each time.
You can stop at 6 or take it lower. I never tried going "below" 5.2 though. Not sure that's even possible using this product. But, it will reduce the PH of something higher than 5.2 in smaller adjustments if you use less than the prescribed amount. (if that's what you are asking?)
scotty
Swill Maker
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:36 am
Location: west curacau

Re: Before I experiment

Post by scotty »

Usge wrote:I use the product 5.2. I've used less than the prescribed tablespoon per 5 gal, stirred well..and it lowered the PH (using a digital PH meter) a bit each time.
You can stop at 6 or take it lower. I never tried going "below" 5.2 though. Not sure that's even possible using this product. But, it will reduce the PH of something higher than 5.2 in smaller adjustments if you use less than the prescribed amount. (if that's what you are asking?)

Thats good info. I read a lot about buffers lately. I dont thing the will co operate well with what i had in mind so i wont bother.

Thanks :D
teach me and correct me if you are my friend
Post Reply