single run in pot still?

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marquee moon

single run in pot still?

Post by marquee moon »

I use a pot still to make whisky & brandy. So far, I've always double distilled.
Reading this forum, it seems that people sometimes do single distillations in a pot still- by taking it slowly and I presume by designing in a little reflux into their pot still collum.

So if I played around with the design of my collum to allow a little bit of reflux, if I kept the heat input low (like the amount I use for the spirit run), and if I took a small hearts cut (taking big heads & tails cuts), is it possible to do single runs in pot stills?
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Post by Tater »

I seldom do more then single runs.
I use a pot still.Sometimes with a thumper
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Post by Aidas »

Reflux? What reflux? I'm using a 20 liter capacity copper alembic (onion head) and I'm very happy with my first runs. That is to say that i garner a fair amount of really good stuff in the first run. Because I'm greedy (or, as I'm apt to say -- thrifty...) I always keep my heads and tails for a future second run.

I have a hard time distinguishing between my first and second run product (if it's from the same recipe washes), so I'm happy with what's going on.

The only wash that I know I HAVE to run twice is calvados -- it's my only low alc wash (5-6 percent), while my UJSM washes are all around 12 percent.

I've never understood the need for triple distillation (see my post in another thread in mashfermentdistill)...

If you're whiskey making -- you can certainly get a good product from your first run, and the second distillation of the heads and tails will just make you feel great for getting more product than you can drink between runs... :)

Aidas
marquee moon

Post by marquee moon »

thank you both for your replies.

Aidas-
I'm also in the proccess of making calvados (a blend of my own cooking & eating apples). The cider came out at around 6.5- 7%, tasted fantastic- very dry with a clean sharp apple bite. I've distilled all cider to low wines. I'm interested in finding out about your experience on the secon run. What sort of cuts did you make? In another post I've read that you have used apple wood as well as oak- which did you prefere? did you toast the apple wood/ oak?
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Post by Aidas »

I toast my oak and apple the same: wrapped in al. foil at 200 deg. celsius for two hours.

The apple imparts color within a day, while the oak takes quite a bit longer (first color after about a week).

I'm aging three ways after each batch: oak, apple, and oak with apple. I still don't know which is best... I like them all...

The second run with the calvados was just like all my runs... because my copper alembic is incredibly low-tech, I have to rely on taste and smell for my cuts. Also, because I've got a baby that keeps my hands full on weekends (I try to give my wife as much time off on the weekends as possible...), I can't sit by the still during the whole process.

Here's the whole process. I had about 100 liters of 5-6% cider. Ran it fast and dirty and ended up with about 15 liters of around 40%. I kept a bottle (750 ml) of 40% from each first run for sippin... I then took the 15 liters and ran it again.

I tossed 200 ml foreshots, even though I threw the same amount out on the first runs. Then I kept about 500 ML of heads for my smaller still -- the easy still. At that point the distillate is coming out at around 70-75%. I collect down to around 48-50 percent (this is where taste and smell come into play). After stopping collecting the good stuff, I collect down to around 20-25% and add the tails to the 500 ML of heads. Then I run that in the easy still for another bottle for NOW sipping.

I ended up with 9 liters of 40 percent calvados (this is after dillution), three on oak, three on apple, three on a mix. This is in addition to the 5 bottles I took in the first runs.

Aidas
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Post by possum »

I also use both OAK and apple.

It is easy, especially if using lots of wood, to get too much flavor from apple.
It seems that oak is a bit genteler.
I made some barley and rye that I aged for 1.5 weeks on apple, then aged on oak.
Also made some apple only, and some oak only.
I wouldn't say any one was better, just different.
I did like the apple followed by oak, but the all oak was milder.
All were good.
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single and double destilling

Post by texshine »

Well marquee moon , a good and thumb rule for this is the 10% abv :) wash border . Below destill once above twice
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Post by triggernum5 »

One thing my dad was pretty hardcore on is the abv for aging given a specific wood sample.. He was a master in my opinion because he was anal to say the least!.. We had 3 barrels, and each had its own ultimate abv in his opinion.. I screwed up once and he wasn't too happy right from the gitgo.. Now I can't say I'm not imagining things, but honestly, after drinking the aged product (9.5 months) I have to say he may have had a valid argument..
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Post by *MoonShine* »

Yall' say a single run..... Is that after a stripping run?
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Post by Tater »

*MoonShine* wrote:Yall' say a single run..... Is that after a stripping run?
no 1 run
I use a pot still.Sometimes with a thumper
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Post by msrorysdad »

I like the taste of most single runs. Slow, and easy, even the tomato paste sugar is pretty nice. I've got a ss keg with an 18" by 2" column, to a removable water jacketed lyne arm. I take it at about 175 to 185 degrees f. Try it, if ya don't like it, crank up the heat, let her rip and call it a strippin run
marquee moon

Re: single and double destilling

Post by marquee moon »

texshine wrote:Well marquee moon , a good and thumb rule for this is the 10% abv :) wash border . Below destill once above twice
I get the idea- but should this be the other way around? (above 10% distill once, below distill twice)?

msrorysdad wrote:Try it, if ya don't like it, crank up the heat, let her rip and call it a strippin run
Sounds like good advice. I'll do a 13% or so next time & see how this comes out taken slowly on a single run- If I dont like the flavour, I'll call it a strip & re-run.

At the momment everything is getting in the way of of distilling- put in a new kitchen, decorate the spare bedroom, work on a disertation on phosperous polution, my wife is pregnant :shock: ( so maybe add to the list a nursery...) and my vegetable garden needs attention (otherwise we wont eat good veg this year). And sad but true, distilling comes a long way down the list of "must do's" .....especially as I have lots of Jameson's and good Spayside in the cupboard.
But when I get the time, I'll take all the good advice given here into acount.

cheers
Last edited by marquee moon on Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by triggernum5 »

Higher ABV washes create more nasties because you're stressing the yeast.. Below 10% basically any yeast won't be stressed much at all for purposes of distilling, but on the other hand its a main reason highschool beers taste so harsh..
My first comment about the barrels eluded to the fact that one of the main reasons double distilling happens is to jack the ABV up to a good aging level..
marquee moon

Post by marquee moon »

yes, I'd be interested in getting it up to a healthy maturing strength, 65% or so, then water down after oaking. I wouldnt be happy with just getting to 40%- dont think that'd taste to good.
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Post by triggernum5 »

You hit the nail on the head in the very beginning.. Dink with your column, dink with your arm angle etc.. Salt in the boiler (even a little, although it maxes out at ~350g/kg) does jack up the ABV output noticably too.. Be careful with salt though depending on your materials because it can drastically shorten the life of your boiler.. Lastly, read up on "thumpers" if you havent already.. With the right mix in a thumper you can get the heavy potstill flavor, and the benefit of redistilling without an extra run..
The other nice thing about a thumper is the fact that the temp there will never exceed the vapor temp.. If you fill it with dilute molasses, raisins, cinnamon sticks, vanilla etc. (and higher ABV than your boiler) you get the start of a really tasty rum..
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Post by goose eye »

folks round here always run it twice unless they got a doublein keg.
they dont do toastin oak apple or what nots. it is what it is.
thats how you get your name weather good or bad.
if in dout pour it out
so im tole
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Post by blanikdog »

I'm in the 'unfortunate' situation where I obtain lots of end of run bottles of red and white wines in dozen boxes.

I was thinking of running three dozen batches through my potstill and keeping everything down to 30abv until I have around ten gallons, then diluting to 40abv and doing a second slower run keeping heads and tails separate, age the hearts and use the kept feints to add to my next ten gallon run.

What's the general opinion about this practice?
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Post by blanikdog »

marquee moon wrote:yes, I'd be interested in getting it up to a healthy maturing strength, 65% or so, then water down after oaking. .
I've been oaking/appling/pearing at 40abv. Seems like I've been wrong. Yairs, I know read, read, read but at my age I tend to forget faster than I can read. :oops:

Is it best to age at a higher abv and dilute to 40abv or doesn't it make much difference?
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Post by Husker »

blanikdog wrote:
marquee moon wrote:yes, I'd be interested in getting it up to a healthy maturing strength, 65% or so, then water down after oaking. .
I've been oaking/appling/pearing at 40abv. Seems like I've been wrong. Yairs, I know read, read, read but at my age I tend to forget faster than I can read. :oops:

Is it best to age at a higher abv and dilute to 40abv or doesn't it make much difference?
I find it best to age at 65%. But somewhere in the 60 to 68% range is pretty good. When you have fully aged it, THEN cut it with water. Note, I will age full time on the oak, but I may pull some of the medium char out after a few weeks, or things get to heavily oaked. I put in a mix of very light, medium and heavy char white oak (staves of an old bourbon barrel, split into 3/8" think slivers). Most commercial stuff is distilled at 65%, and from reading, that seems to be the right percentage to properly strip the goodies out of the wood.

I distress age, in 4L old clear glass wine jugs.

H.
Last edited by Husker on Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by blanikdog »

Thanks Husker. I guess I'd best start drinking and start all over. :D
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Post by Husker »

blanikdog wrote:Thanks Husker. I guess I'd best start drinking and start all over. :D
Just redistill what you have, or add some stronger stuff, then age that. No reason to drink stuff that does not taste good. You have a still, you can always work to make it taste better.

H.
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Post by blanikdog »

Thanks Husker. I was thinking about doing that very thing today. :)
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Re: single run in pot still?

Post by Toxxyc »

Old thread, but here we go, back to topic (first one I could find on the matter).

Single distillation runs. I ran a rum wash a week or so ago and during the run, based on the volume coming off, I decided to take a taster straight from the runoff. The flavour absolutely blew me away. It was rich, almost creamy, full of the typical flavour we associate with a good rum.

Now that got me thinking - why do we do stripping and then spirit runs? I've got a pot still, so obviously I'm not hunting super high neutrals or super high ABVs. I literally want a flavourful product. If I do good cuts during the first run, is there really a need for me to distill everything twice? I've done the double distillation thing (strip and then spirit) because that's what I've been reading about everywhere, but it's always hit me how much flavour remains in the solution after doing the spirit run - and I can't think that's a good thing. What's good about the first run should be good to drink if I run the still slowly (not an issue for me), correct?
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Re: single run in pot still?

Post by SmokyMtn »

Only person it has to please is you. I just run once. Neither way is right or wrong, it's two different options. Doing it safely is the only concern.
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Re: single run in pot still?

Post by Toxxyc »

Yeah safety is my primary concern when it comes to 99% of the stuff, which is why I tend to make very conservative cuts as well.
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