Condenser Controlled Columns

[kimbodious]

looks great!

[Benredbeard]

Quoth fafrd:
-what is the best way to join a keg spear to a TC fitting, just solder stainless-on-stainless?
-at the ouput end, you just bend the CSST input and output up and away and led the product trickle out of the spear-end?


Anyone have advice on how to join the flange fitting to the spear for non-welders?

[Getsmokin]

Has anyone took note of the actual location of their RC to the take off? How far does the vapor make it up the RC while maintaining a 120f coolant temp? I'm sure it depends on your condenser, somewhat.

[masonsjax]

Anyone have advice on how to join the flange fitting to the spear for non-welders?

You can use a ratchet handle or something similar to slightly flare the end of the spear so the flange will press fit. That may be enough, but for mine I put some liquud flux on the area before hammering it home, then silver soldered it on. Soldering with a propane torch is not expensive or difficult and there are lots of tutorials on YouTube to learn how.

[DAD300]

Joining a keg spear to a TC fitting...

There are Triclamp ferules called "recessed ferrules." They fit the exterior f dimensional triclamp pipe.

The 1" recessed Triclamp ferrule fits the outside of a keg spear. Force/slip it over the spear three inches, flare the end of the spear and force the ferrule back to the end. The seal on these takes place at the end where the gasket sets. So, no welding or soldering required.

There is a tutorial here on the site. viewtopic.php?f=87&t=43787&p=7149070&hi ... e#p7149070

I have used these in 1" - 4"" without a leak!

[masonsjax]

Yup, that's what I used and how I did it, following that post exactly, except I went the extra step and soldered mine just for the extra insurance. Easy enough to do so I figured why not?

[Boozewaves]

I finally did it , made a 7 foot tall column 3 inches wide with 18 inches of lava rock packing and 2 CSST condensers on a keg , did 2 vinegar runs and then a sacrificial run without packing , it took quite a long time but I was being very very cautious because this was the first distillation I ever did ,

looking at my notes on the next run for actual drinkable spirit I did a 30 liter charge of googes goo starting at 4.45 , I turned down the heat as the outer surface of the keg was starting to heat up , I had my first drips by the product condenser at 6.20 . they came through even though the reflux condenser was in place so I figured it was time to raise the condenser , I may need to use wider CSST which I do have or re roll the reflux condenser , I was getting a bit of steam out the top as well even though I checked the output water temperature regularly and it never really got any hotter than "a bit warm"

got a good result anyway , about a litre and I think it was around 70% I called the run off at about 11.00 , I was tired , I am sure with some tweaking I could get the overall time down (I had read it should be a lot less) and I would also get more out , I think I was too cautious about scorching the wash and the keg so probably could use more heat if I make sure the condensers can handle it , I did not have my stronger alcohol hydrometer at the time so could not measure accurately but it was stronger than 40% ABV anyway as that hydrometer sank all the way , tasted good mixed with cranberry juice . next time I will put more packing in and hopefully hit azeo , also the wash took a long time to ferment , my next one should be better too , live and learn as they say . overall i'm pleased I did a first ever run and I have donated to the site now like I said in my first ever post because i'd be using a aluminium kettle (which is bad) and an ice bucket flake stand without this site , instead I have a work of art . I never knew i'd be using Kale lettuce , AC refrigerant cooling tubes , lava rock and chicken grit for homebrew , I learnt everything from here

TL:DR . I used this design and it works , still need more practice but I will get there in the end , very pleased with this website ,

[kimbodious]

Good report!

You should never have “steam” exiting the top of your column. You will lose a lot of alcohol that way. There is also the risk of fire/ explosion having escaping alcohol vapour. From a 30 litre charge of wash I would be expecting at least 2.5 litres of product.

With your reflux condenser in the lowest position you should not be getting any drips either

You get escaping alcohol vapour when
a) you are not circulating enough water to keep the reflux condenser cold enough, or
b) your reflux condenser is too small to make a large enough cooling surface, or
c) your reflux condenser is not making a good enough contact (or seal) with the inner walls of the column or
d) you are sending up more vapour than the reflux condenser can knock down or
e) some combination of the above

From reading your report I suspect that your reflux condenser is not making enough contact with the inner walls of the column. You can check this by feeling where the cold section is on the outside of the column. If everything is set up okay you will be able to feel a pretty sharp temperature decrease. To make a better “seal” I wove stainless steel pot scrubbers in and around the reflux condenser coil that way the RC has good contact with the inner walls of the column and it can still be easily moved but with enough friction to hold it in place.

This is the reflux condenser for my 2” CCVM. The yellow zip ties indicate the small range of movement between highest and lowest RC position settings ie when the topmost zip tie is just visible from the top of the column the RC is in the lowest position required for total reflux - definitely ghetto but it works

I can’t wait to read about when you have run the CCVM with a fully packed column.

[Boozewaves]

Thanks for you'r help again Kimbodious

From reading your report I suspect that your reflux condenser is not making enough contact with the inner walls of the column. You can check this by feeling where the cold section is on the outside of the column. If everything is set up okay you will be able to feel a pretty sharp temperature decrease. To make a better “seal” I wove stainless steel pot scrubbers in and around the reflux condenser coil that way the RC has good contact with the inner walls of the column and it can still be easily moved but with enough friction to hold it in place.

I think you are onto something with that design , I have some CSST that is twice the thickness , its too big to make coils that would fit but it would work twisted with scrubbies , its nice to know I will be able to get more than what came out , I still have loads to run for practice ,

you'r RC looks very long but then when I look at the CCVM picture in you'r signature you'r piece above the takeoff looks very long too , a lot longer than mine , that may explain the vapour escaping , hopefully I can solve the issue by remaking the RC and maybe PC as well , if not then i'll have to use a longer piece ,

[kimbodious]

Happy to nelp out a fellow CCVM operator! The piece of SS spool above the offtake is only 12”. I used 6 foot of CSST to make the reflux condenser

[Boozewaves]

So I re-did the coils and did another run
the coils were made from thicker CSST and definitely bigger , I thought I would only be able to get them to fit inside by twisting but it turns out I could just about make coils that are a very very snug fit so I thought that would be better seeing as there would be more surface area , the coils worked great , during the run above the takeoff was cool and only got too hot to touch when the run was nearly over and I cranked the power and water up to try and get any last drips out .

I fired up the burner at 8.30 a.m and at 9.20 the keg top was too hot to touch , at 9.45 when the heat had gone all the way up and I could hear reflux dripping down on the packing I lifted the R.C and took off 120ml fores slowly while decreasing burner heat and increasing water flow , from there it was pretty straightforward running from 11.15 a.m until it was taking 20 minutes to drop 100ml at 1.40 p.m , by then I figured I was deep into tails so I stopped , got 1.7 litres from 20 litres . about a litre an hour for most of the run apart from the end , I still have another 20 litres of Googe's kale wash to run

so here's 2 pictures one of the difference between the old and new coils and one of the whole lot after assembling it , the stainless steel parts are packed with lava rock , next time I will add more packing half way up the copper pipe above

[kimbodious]

great result! We can’t get CSST in Australia without have to buy it in from the US. I had to make do with a 6’ length that someone bought for me from Home Depot

[casper the Irish]

CSST is what is inside gaspipe, the yellow covered underground tubing you can buy by the yard at the plumbers. Just strip off the yellow plastic

[Yummyrum]

Yummy.....“Knock knock “

Boozewaves ....”who’s there ?”

Yummy .... “The plastic Police “

[Boozewaves]

Yummy.....“Knock knock “

Boozewaves ....”who’s there ?”

Yummy .... “The plastic Police “

CRAP! , , yeah I know thats a bad thing to do , you caught me , I didn't know at the time , I had read the spoonfeeding thread but I must have missed that part , I only realised when I saw somebody else get corrected on a new build thread , had an issue with drips running down the CSST and not going in the jars that time so I grabbed something with a wide mouth . At least I only poisoned myself . if you want to mod edit it go ahead

[Slow42]

download/file.php?id=22701&mode=view

image.jpeg (9.86 KiB) Viewed 4629 times

What is the actual name for this device, in the position in which it will be used? Trying to ask questions about it but having trouble explains myself.

[Corsaire]

I'd say it's a reflux condenser.

[Expat]

Looks like part of a CCVM column. Missing the takeoff tee and product condenser though.

Else, a stainless steel trumpet?

[NJen]

The post that it came from says it's a product condenser, but I'm not sure how that works exactly. The picture came from page 2 of this thread, near the bottom, if anyone else is interested in looking at it.

[Tummydoc]

That's a dimroth product condenser made with coiled stainless steel tubing (csst) which is twisted. The 2 ends stick out a keg spear and are hooked to coolant lines. The loop in the CSST wont fit in the spear, so it sits in the funnel shaped stainless reducer. Depending on your lyne arm usually a 2 inch to 1.5 inch reducer. You could use a stainless spool instead of keg spear. DAD300 was trying to find a use for the keg spear and came up with that concept. He did run it on one if his CCVM stills

[Slow42]

Thanks Tummydoc that’s what I though it was called and I have a separate post asking about it. Seems to be confusing some and I’m not getting the input I anticipated. I want to build one as it’s something I think I can do.

What is your opinion of this vs a shotgun condenser, being used in like circumstances?

Also how do you control the water temperature into the condenser, at the top of the column. Dad300 says stay around 130 degrees and mentions something about a hot tub. Do you have to use hot water?

[Fivey]

Also how do you control the water temperature into the condenser, at the top of the column. Dad300 says stay around 130 degrees and mentions something about a hot tub. Do you have to use hot water?

I'm not sure where you are from; a USA 'hot tub' is a 'spa pool' elsewhere. And no, you don't run hot water through the condenser, but a 'hot tub' is a common convenient reservoir for several hundred litres of water than could be used for cooling, being pumped through the condenser. But you would always start with the water in it being cold.

[Slow42]

Fivey thanks again. After reading a bit I decided to try and build from scratch. I found a reasonable place to buy the SS pipe and fittings. The only thing I have to do is solder the connectors on the pipes and fittings. Watched a few videos on that also and I think I’ll give it a try. Doesn’t look to simple but at least not complicated. I’ll start another post to keep things organized at least for me. Please continue to follow.

[Tummydoc]

Slow, I haven't run that PC, but should work fine if you have a long enough coil. And you dont need to control coolant temp. I think dad was saying you'll still condense reflux as long as output coolant is 130 or less.

I didnt solder fittings onto the CCST. I used plumbers putty epoxy to make the end inch or two smooth and then hose clamped tubing onto the ends. Without the epoxy, the ridges is the CCST prevented a good seal and I'd drip water.

[Slow42]

Thanks Tummydoc I posted a build I’m starting off this post please follow and help if possible.

[Slow42]

Correct me if I’ve got this wrong. To be in full reflux the CCST condenser is set about (1) inch below the tee cross section. You then adjust upward to alter the amount of vapor exiting the tee. In doing this the condenser coil will now be out of the pipe supporting it a little or lot depending on pipe length. To make sure vapor never escapes out the top what would be the best length for the pipe above the tee, and the condenser length? I have seen some examples where the condenser was out of the pipe a considerable distance which seems likely vapor would escape at this point. I looking at using 3” SS stool, and fittings.

[acfixer69]

There isn't a minimum length as the temperature of the cooling water will determine that, just like theirs no set distance for how high you need to lift the coil. It changes like you would open/close a valve.

[DAD300]

Leave sufficient room under the "T" without packing. Don't let the RC touch the packing!

[Slow42]

DAD300 I understand that aspect of the design but I don’t understand what acfixer69 is saying. There has to be some science behind the sizing of this type reflux condenser. If you don’t have a pipe at all on top of the tee you would only have maybe 3” of adjustment the rest of the condenser would not serve any function at this point. The size and length of the reflux condenser and it’s supporting pipe has to may a difference. Otherwise vapors would escape!

[RC Al]

As per the first picture on page one, just make the pipe above the vapour take off as long as the condenser is, plus an inch or two
How far below the take off you have to set the condenser, is individually specific to power applied, ambient temperature, cooling water temperature / flow rate and the efficiency of your windings of your csst condenser
Have a look at this thread if you want some guidelines on how much csst to use viewtopic.php?f=87&t=56337