sterilizing

Distillation methods and improvements.

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Bsnapshot
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sterilizing

Post by Bsnapshot »

Just doing a check to see what every one is using to sterilize there equipment with ? I my self been using sulfate solution because it is cheap and you do not have to soak your stuff or have to rinse for years in my brewing and wine making and have never had a problem with infections.

Maybe others have new ideas.
Guest

diluted chlorine bleach

Post by Guest »

I've been straight-grain brewing for over 20 years, and I use a dilute solution of chlorine bleach...usually the cheapest store-brand I can find...usually a couple of ounces in a gallon will do for a short (5 min) soak.... Read Papazian's "The complete Joy of Homebrewing" for more methodology...never has failed me.
punkin
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Post by punkin »

I use 'Milton' brand steriliser solution for baby bottles from the supermarket. Just can't leave the beer kegs soaking in it.
mikeac
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Post by mikeac »

I use a sulfite solution bought from my home brew store. Hasn't let me down either and it's pretty damn cheap.
The Chemist
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Post by The Chemist »

Bleach for me...
Purposeful motion, for one so insane...
pintoshine
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Post by pintoshine »

boiling water for most things. Bleach for the really big jobs.
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Post by BW Redneck »

I get a rag and some hydrogen peroxide or really bad hootch and use it. The peroxide will break down into oxygen and water and the alcohol will evaporate. Never a problem.
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Bob E
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Post by Bob E »

This is what I've been doing - same screen name
http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/sho ... adid=16206
you need a 30 second contact time I don't think that's mentioned in the link. There's even more info about it in the podcast.
http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=radio
scroll down to "March 29, 2007 - Sanitizing with Bleach and Star San"
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shadylane
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Post by shadylane »

I just clean everything with hot soapy water as soon as I get done with it. Some times I just dump more sugar and hot stillage into my mash buskets, top it off with water, yeast and keep right on going. If you don't leave anything sitting around dirty then the risk of spoilage is greatly reduced. Some of the old time distillers were terribly dirty and they seemed to produce some good shine.
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Post by HookLine »

shadylane wrote:Some of the old time distillers were terribly dirty and they seemed to produce some good shine.
Yes, I sometimes think the sterilising thing is taken too far. If you wash things well in hot soapy water, rinse with clean water, and let them dry completely, that takes care of pretty well everything you have to worry about.
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As-Ol-Joe
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Post by As-Ol-Joe »

Hot soapy water, then sterilize with bleach for about 30 minutes and rinse in clean water
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dunderhed

sterizing

Post by dunderhed »

Yes your right sadylane
some of them old gies just used open wood tanks
maby a tarp on top i was tould if you got mold
groing on top it would keep out the bad stuf
like the old store pickils.
schnell
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Post by schnell »

in order of preference:
A) nothing! (of course not a blanket approach, but my favorite)
B) soap and water
C) leftover heads

actually for cleaning steel and degreasing the heads from a previous batch would be a good choice.

i keep bleach away from stainless as much as possible.
Uncle Jesse
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bleach

Post by Uncle Jesse »

I've heard that bleach can react badly with stainless steel and cause pitting over time.

Not sure whether or not it's true but if not, bleach is hard to beat for cost and effectiveness. Also it goes away pretty nicely when you dry it out.
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Re: bleach

Post by HookLine »

Uncle Jesse wrote:I've heard that bleach can react badly with stainless steel and cause pitting over time.
Anything with chlorides/chlorites in it, such as bleach, or hydrochloric acid, etc, is no good for stainless, especially for prolonged exposure.
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Re: bleach

Post by defcon4 »

Uncle Jesse wrote:I've heard that bleach can react badly with stainless steel and cause pitting over time.

Not sure whether or not it's true but if not, bleach is hard to beat for cost and effectiveness. Also it goes away pretty nicely when you dry it out.
I heard this too, but I thought "no way it's stainless, bleach won't hurt it". Well I soaked my stainless handled carboy brushes in a bleach water solution (1 tablespoon per gallon) and the stainless has lost it's "shine", they feel slightly rough to the touch and have a whitish film to them.

So I don't use bleach solutions around stainless anymore.
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steaming faster than boiling?

Post by stillsmokin »

They say steam is hotter than boiling water, so I thought less water to bring up to boil, and hotter temps. I tried sterilizing things in the past by keeping them above water level in a BOP. I'd put about three inches of water in the pot, fire it up with a lid on and let it go as long as I felt was thorough enough.

Anyone think this might work better/faster than boiling?
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Post by defcon4 »

You're on the right track for making a home autoclave! Autoclaves use a pressurized chamber and steam to sterilize stuff. I remember reading somewhere that you can use a pressure cooker to act as an autoclave. I think you put the items to be sterilized in a vegetable tray or something to suspend them above the water line and cook it. The pressure cooker will pressurize and fill with steam and will be hotter than 212 deg F. I think this was done for 15 minutes but I'm not sure, I read about this a long time ago.
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Post by cannon.co.tn »

I just pick up whichever quat sanitizer is cheapest at the local restaurant supply store. Right now that's Ajax commercial. Pick up any non-chlorine based "rinseless" sanitizer. I recently attended a food safety class and these sanitizers are what they recommend too. Buying StarSan and other brewing specific sanitizers is way too expensive for me. Chlorine isn't good on stainless and you have to rinse with water which can re-infect your stuff.
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Post by Old_Blue »

Stillsmokin wrote:
They say steam is hotter than boiling water
Steam can't be hotter than the water it boils off from. Actually it may be slightly cooler due to the energy released during the transfer from liquid to steam. But, the autoclave operates a a higher temperature due to the increase in pressure. Water boils at 212f in a container open to the atmosphere but an autoclave at 15 psi will boil water ~257f. An autoclave and a pressure cooker are the same thing, autoclaves just cost more because they are a "specialized" piece of equipment. They make portable autoclaves for emergency responses like a mass disaster team that might have to operate under conditions with out electricity (plane crash in the middle of the woods) that can be heater directly by fire. These are just glorified pressure cookers.

Hope this helps.
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Post by grainhopper »

180 DEG water will sterilize. Ever work resturaunt where that is what they used. The US Navy uses the hot water method in their galleys as well.
Used to see who could snatch a spoon or fork from the bottom of the sterile sink without getting hurt. LMAO i was pretty quick handed but others were not. Funny :twisted:
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hillbilly autoclave

Post by stillsmokin »

You're on the right track for making a home autoclave!
Maybe next time I'll set a brick on the lid. hillbilly autoclave?
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Post by wineo »

Bleach water or hot water.Just dont make the bleachwater very strong for stainless,and rince it right away.
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Post by Cruisaire »

Actually its sanitize not sterilize. See here:

http://www.bodensatz.com/staticpages/in ... sanitation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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Post by HookLine »

Using hot water works well. There is also a relationship between the temperature of the water, how long it is in contact with the thing you want to sanitise/sterilise, and how well it sanitises/sterilises. Boiling water sanitises almost instantly, and only takes a few minutes to guarantee sterilisation. Lower temps take longer. But no microbe we have to worry about in fermenting survives even 50ºC water for very long. If it is too hot for you to leave your hand in, it is too hot for any (signficant number) of those microbes to survive in.

When I am mixing up a ferment, or taking sample from a ferment, I just clean my (glass, plastic, and stainless) measuring and stirring equipment with hot water and detergent, and then rinse them with hot tap water (about 60C) straight out of the tap for about 20-30 seconds. Haven't had an infected ferment yet (fingers crossed).

I do use a commercial cleaning/sanitising powder from the brew store for the fermenting barrel itself.
Last edited by HookLine on Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by defcon4 »

Sanitizing and sterilizing are 2 different things. Sanitizing (ie with chemicals, pasteurization temperatures 140-180 deg, etc) just reduces the amount of organisms on a surface to a point were the yeast will be done fermenting the sugar before the bacteria/organisms build their colony back up.

Sterilizing (ie autoclaves, direct flame, boiling under pressure) will kill EVERY last living cell on a surface. Used for surgical equipment, in laboratories, etc. We as home distillers, brewers, or vinters don't need to sterilize our equipment, sanitizing is enough for our purposes. The only time we may need to use sterilization is if we were managing our own yeast colonies and or saving yeast for many, many generations. It couldn't hurt to sterilize our equipment, but the extra effort is not entirely necessary.
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Post by HookLine »

Fair point, defcon, and I have edited my previous post to more accurately reflect that distinction.
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Post by grainhopper »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterilization_(microbiology" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow)

Hey but as soon as you take it out of the auto clave isnt it germed up?
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Post by defcon4 »

That's why laboratories use cleanrooms
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Post by CanadianWhiskey »

i work for the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, Its really Animal Disease And Research Institute we just cover it up with CFIA so the animal lovers arnt on our case to much... anywasy we have about 20 Autoclaves in the building. So i will answer some of the questions brought up. Steam IS hotter than boiling Water, Autoclaving IS like a pressure cooker to a degree but i dont know too many people that can stick the columns, heads, and boilers in a betty crocker presure cooker...On the weekends when i want to work i bring my coloumn, nixon head in and autoclave it at 150 C...any hotter youll ruin your solder points. as for the keg its self alittle soap and water...DO NOT USE BLEECH. In the Labs thats what we work with. Its in our S.O.P's to bleech all the counter tops at the end of they day. Over time it completly ruins the stainless steel counter tops and we replace them... so yes thats where your tax dollars go.
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