inline stripping flange

We don’t condone the use of Continuous Stripping stills as a method of running 24/7 as this is a commercial setup only .
Home distillers should never leave any still run unattended and Continuous strippers should not be operated for longer periods than a Batch stripping session would typically be run to minimise operator fatigue..

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absinthe
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Post by absinthe »

*UPDATE*

i found that the amount of CO2 going into the system was something i needed to try and reduce so i opened a vent into the input line after the preheater (a T piece with a piece of hose going up higher than the injector) and not only did id reduce the amount of CO2 going in but it also allowed me to see the flow rate in the boiler side of the vent..

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Post by cannon.co.tn »

I found this coaxial input fitting on StPats. thought it might be a good option for folks interested in your design but who don't want to make the wash injector themselves.


http://www.stpats.com/sanitaryfittings. ... serTCUnion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

"1.5" TriClamp Union with 1/4" MPT x 1/8" FPT $45

1/4" MPT on outside and 1/8" FPT coaxial internal. This is fitting used for our inline gas diffusion stones."

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Post by absinthe »

thats where i got the idea from lol it was just heaps cheaper to make my own
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Post by absinthe »

oh yes and they are 1.5" dia not 2" so they wouldnt fit on top off a keg nor attach to my tower
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Post by absinthe »

i will also be addin a temp prob into the flange so i can tell if any etho is makeing it to the boiler as its very hard to tell any other way
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Post by p_su »

absinthe - Keep up the good work. I am really enjoying this topic.
Many others have discussed an inline flange and continuous stripping system but so far this is the only one that has pics of a functioning unit. Based on your experience with your current setup, do you think that a liebeig heat exchanger and smaller boiling vessel would be as good as what you're running?
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Post by absinthe »

i think i will be adding liebeig heat exchanger and having a play with that, but I'm not sure if it will be as good as the bucket as i have 3 metres of copper pipe in the bucket and the overflow is to hot to put your fingers in..

i don't really want to run a 3 metre liebeig..

but as for the smaller boiling vessel i will be keeping it the same as the 4 ring burner i have provides allot more heat than i could with an electric element unless i goto a 25 amp socket :P

a smaller boiling vessel would have its advantages but with the heat shield i have and insulation on the top i have no problems with keeping the boil temp high all the way to the column
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Post by stoker »

to check how much alcohol is left in the boiler, just take a few liters of it (measure it) and distill it till all you get is pure water. take an alcoholmeter and check it. for the quantity, you'll have to do some math.
-I have too much blood in my alcohol system-
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Post by absinthe »

yeah but i would like a ruff "on the fly" way of testing whats getting into the boiler..

i know i lost some on this batch but the test batch i did when i first made her (i made 10 litres of 10% wash with heads and measured what water i had added to the boiler and all the output) i lost only about 1% this run was more like 2-3%..

i think it could have also been to do with the wash strength as it was only 6.5% due to a miss calculation on the litre-age of a 44 gallon drum (i used US gallons not UK)
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Post by jdpete »

I like the continuous feed method but would prefer to use it with the feed directly into the boiler, like the A method andre.silent showed in his drawing. Any additional considerations a person should keep in mind using this method? andre.silent would you feed into the top down to the bottom of boiler?

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Post by Nykter »

If you feed the boiler with wash, you will have alcohol in the boiler, thus you will drain alcohol since the drain has to be in the boiler.

The reason for feeding wash on top of a column is to give it a chance to leave its alcohol (as vapour) before it reaches the boiler (and the drain)
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Post by jdpete »

I was just trying to get a handle on what andrei meant in his diagram showing the potential of delivering the wine to the boiler. He showed to options.

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Post by absinthe »

well after having troubles with the weld on the over flow.. and sealing in the injector pipe.. and some other small problems,, i have some work ahead to get her up to scratch..

it will be awhile before shes run again as i have now run the batch i had for her.. and need tot get my LM still head finished to run the 80 odd litres of low wine vodka through lol (i think people will be getting vodka for prezzies for quite awhile)
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Re: inline stripping flange

Post by jdpete »

Absinthe,

Did you ever revive your continuous stripping still project?

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Re: inline stripping flange

Post by Stew8 »

This is a really interesting topic. Why? I’ve been blown away by all grain mashes, they are easy and ferment out in a few days, If I used a large drum and used the whole 55lb bag of barley, it would reduce the number of mashing from 5 to 1. it would be ideal to do a single stripping run and then a spirit run in my 20l/5US Gal boiler.

My interpretation of the information provided is drawn below and the build looks pretty straight forward.

Starting in the top right, the filtered wash is either pumped or gravity fed (with a tap for control C1) to the distillation Liebig that warms up the wash. The wash is further heated in the boiler overflow Liebig.
It then enters the still as per Absenthe’s “In-line stripping flange”.
A further heating option is: I have a twin burner so I could further heat the wash after it’s exited the second Liebig using a copper coil over the second gas burner.

The length of the internal pipe inside the packed column will be determined by trial and error. I would start fairly close to the type of the column. My understanding is that the heat in the column will vapourise any alcohol in the incoming wash letting water drop back into the boiler and ultimately overflow out of the boiler and then into a “waste”container.

The only temperature measurement I have at the moment is around the top of the column. Do I need more? Boiler liquid temp, incoming wash temp at A.

Comments and advice welcome and thanks again a great thread. :clap:
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Re: inline stripping flange

Post by OtisT »

Hi Stew. Interesting design I may have to try myself. :-)

A concern I have with your design in the diagram is whether or not you should use wash as coolant for your Liebig PC. I think your PC cooling flow needs will likely be much greater than you boiler wash feed rate.

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Re: inline stripping flange

Post by The Baker »

OtisT wrote:Hi Stew. Interesting design I may have to try myself. :-)

A concern I have with your design in the diagram is whether or not you should use wash as coolant for your Liebig PC. I think your PC cooling flow needs will likely be much greater than you boiler wash feed rate.

Otis
Install a second liebig after the first, fed with cooling water in the usual way?

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Re: inline stripping flange

Post by Yummyrum »

I believe a thermometer in the boiler will be helpful in adjusting your feed rate . If its too high , the packing won't be able to strip all the alcohol so as it starts exiting into the boiler , the boiler temp will start to drop indicating the presence of alcohol . Normally it should run pretty close to 100°C
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Re: inline stripping flange

Post by Skipper1953 »

Very interesting not to mention inspiring. I don't need a continuous still any more than I need a hole in the head but what does need have to do with it. Fascinating subject.
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Re: inline stripping flange

Post by Stew8 »

Verision 2

Of course, I’d need more cooling... I’d not considered it, thanks. I’ve added a second cooling Liebig (thanks to Otis and that baker)

Added a boilers thermometer T2 will give more control rather than reacting to the temperature at T1 (thanks to Yummy)

As for a hole in the head; I completely agree with skipper however has the added benefit of keeping me away from the jobs around the house that I’ve been procrastinating about for months. :D

Happy to make further amendments, it’s easy to make them on paper.
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Re: inline stripping flange

Post by Stew8 »

I was thinking about pipe sizes.
(1 litre is about the same as 1 US quart)

Andre.silent mentioned in his first post on this thread, a wash flow rate figure of 10 litres / hour into the stripping still.
My rate of collection for a spirit run is around 20ml a minute/1.2 litres per hour at about 65-70%
If the wash is around 10% and I’m collecting it at, say 50%, 10 litres give 1 litre at 100% or 2 litres at 50%.
So 10 litres an hour sounds about right. I may be able to increase that rate and drop the %ABV.
In that case; 25kg 55lb of malt would produce about 100 litres 26US gallons of wort - that’s a long day....with al least 20 litres of “low wines”

I’m considering using plastic pipe to feed the Liebig and go to copper after the last leibig. It’s cheaper and clear so you can see what’s going on. I also don’t need to worry about acetone dissolving the plastic, being pre distillation wort.

Pipe size
http://www.calctool.org/CALC/eng/civil/hazen-williams_g
Using this calculator cor gravity feed flow rates, I could just get a 10litre / hour from a 10mm pipe so I’ll go with 15mm that can do 30litres per hour.

I could be grass cutting but this is way more interesting. :D
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Re: inline stripping flange

Post by OtisT »

More feedback, based simply on the diagram.

You will want to ensure that the waste disposal Liebig is full of waste liquid, with no air bubbles, for maximum heat transfer. To do this, just ensure that the waste line tee is slightly above the Liebig waste input. The diagram shows them on level.

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Re: inline stripping flange

Post by Evil Wizard »

Hi Stew8, you are on the right track. I've built continuous units in 2",3" and 6". The 6" is producing 7.32lph at 50%abv from 12% wash.

I've had lots of issues using a gravity drain like yours for the boiler because there is a lot of pressure inside. It may be possible to raise the anti siphon high enough to create back pressure.
I would strongly suggest that a shotgun condenser be used to recover waste water heat. Leibigs barely cope in my experience and the stream escaping can be fragrant enough to rile the neighbours.

Good point Baker, you always want a second pc condenser running water. I call it a mercy cooler. This let's you tweak your input flow rates independent of cooling necessity. Input rate needs to be based on what the column can handle.

If you have questions, I've spent 10-15hrs a week building cont stills for the last couple years.
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Re: inline stripping flange

Post by OtisT »

What kind of wash prep is needed for continuous stripping? Specifically:

1) how do you deal with foaming from say a molasses wash or an AG wash?

2) how well does grub need to be filtered? Does this require clear wash only?

3) do some packing materials lend themselves to this method. ( thinking of low clog materials)

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Re: inline stripping flange

Post by OtisT »

Evil Wizard wrote:If you have questions, I've spent 10-15hrs a week building cont stills for the last couple years.
Hi Evil Wizard. I have questions about your 3” strippers. ( there is a joke in there somewhere. ;-) ). I know everything is relative, so even anecdotes would be helpful.

1) For a 3” column over a 5500w max boiler, how much packing height (and material type) is recommended? Ballpark? I assume the effectiveness of the pre-heat would impact this. I have a 3” x 48” spool I can pack below the input, but I am hoping I could get by with less height for this.

2) again for a 3” column, do you have any ballpark metrics on wash flow rates at a give power level? I’m thinking of using 3/8” tubing for the wash input line, which I believe is over 6 lpm.

I’m Planning to drop my wash in from above ( pre-heat in boiler, but not in the column) to help keep packing simple with no internal pipe to wrap packing around.

I have been using copper mesh for fractioning, but think larger materials like rock or rasching rings may work better by not clogging as easily.

I’m curious how you run this, and hoping for a brief overview of the process. Ex: Do you set power for the run, let column reach equilibrium, then incrementally adjust wash flow up until you reach desired run rate. If so, what are you measuring to know when you reach a good rate, or perhaps to know when you are going too fast?

Thanks,
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Re: inline stripping flange

Post by Stew8 »

Damned work and life in the way....

EW a useful post and thanks for the offer of help.
I’d not considered back pressure so may use a pump and/or a header tank.
More pipes and tanks means more to go wrong and more to clean.
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Re: inline stripping flange

Post by Skipper1953 »

Stew8 wrote:I’d not considered back pressure so may use a pump and/or a header tank.
I wouldn't have considered pressure as being a problem, either. Certainly no more pressure than if I were using a thumper. What kind of pressure are you talking about, EvilWizard?
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Re: inline stripping flange

Post by OtisT »

Skipper1953 wrote:
Stew8 wrote:I’d not considered back pressure so may use a pump and/or a header tank.
I wouldn't have considered pressure as being a problem, either. Certainly no more pressure than if I were using a thumper. What kind of pressure are you talking about, EvilWizard?
Hope I’m not overstating here, but in theory the pressure would be caused by the packed column section and would likely be more than a standard thumper. Hot vapor blowing up through all that packing that is drenched with hot wash causes an increase of pressure in the boiler. Pressure will go up with more packing and especially as you increase wash flow and approach flooding the column. It will not be a great amount of pressure ( similar to what you would have fractioning) but enough to require adjustability and design of the Wash output port to ensure the output remains filled with liquid (wet) at all times and not gas. The output needs to remain wet not only to prevent pressure release through the waste port, but to also ensure any pre-heaters relying on output liquid continue to function efficiently.

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Re: inline stripping flange

Post by Evil Wizard »

Hey all!

Easy stuff first.
Packing materials :
I shy from mesh packing, we are stripping here, not really fractionating per se. Aside from issues w solids, it's easier to dump out granular packing. I like small rashig rings low in the column where it is mostly steam and wastewater. At the injection site I like flat marbles because they have good heat retention which gives you some help against vapour collapse when you have the flow rate cranked. For the upper fractionating section (and when doing regular fractionating distillation on a wide column, i like Geolite aka hydroton. They are volcanic rock marbles with a ton of surface area. They are very light which is handy when lifting a 6' column over your head.

Boiler pressure :
Well, i picked up a pressure gauge but haven't installed it yet. It's been enough pressure to blow the electrical elements out of a 40L boiler with a 3/4" vertical upipe water lock of 8" height or so. I like to fab using profane or induction then move over to elements last thing. What otis says is right. The heat in the boiler is causing up and outward pressure and the liquid in the column is causing down pressure and the vapour is pressing in all directions. So the wastewater coming out of the boiler needs height to push against and a wide waste pipe like a shotgun condenser site helps. As long as you can adjust the height mid build you'll find the sweet spot.

Brief overview for running:
I like to run the wash into the condenser coils, and half fill the mid column heat exchanger. Ill build a vinyl line level viewing hose off the side of the heat exchanger. You can remove it after the build and it helps visualize.
Then I will heat up until i start getting distillate. Then I will inch up the flow rate until it starts running okay. Once it's going good a while i will inch up again until it crashes the column. That gives the max flow rate. I suggest a 1/2 balancing valve (victaulic brand?) for your wash input. They have dials and fine gradations. It's tricky though - not fast enough wash rate and your abv drops due to steam rising, too fast and your abv drops due to column collapse. It's a balance with heat input.
The only thing about too fast is column collapse so throw a thermometer in near your input port. I also like a 1500watt water element right before the input port to give it a boost.
I measure distillate with a tiny parrot and a measuring cup and a timer to find Lph. For wash flow i just use the balancing valve dial and do the math after the run in Lph.

Gauges:
Definitely use 3/8 for your feed lines. 1/4" has too much resistance and 1/2" has too little surface area. I'll never again wrap 3/8 inside 3" pipe though, it was murder. If you anneal and manndrel like a pro, go for it. If i had to do it again I'd wrap 1/2" csst inside 3".it has more surface area than copper and more internal turbulence from the ribbing, making up for the lesser thermal conductivity. You can also pack in more of it.

Input port :
I have had poor success with dripping feed wash down the top of the column. If it's already vapour it might work but as a liquid it just collapsed my column at even low speeds. I like to feed upwards from the column bottom. Automatic feed control concepts work well here because you don't get much feed entering the column until it is hot enough. However thermal expansion of the wash and co2 release can still cause feed to dribble or and leak down the drain.

Column sizing :
My 3" was putting out at 70% and then I had to water it down for charcoal and Sodium carbonate so now I aim for 50%. You don't need a lot of height for this, maybe 3 or 3.5 feet with a 10" fractionating section on top before a steep down ward lyne arm. Btw for that small of a section i would use pot scrubbers.

Speed:
My notes on my 3" say 14.2Lph of wash using 3000watt and that was probably 14% wash. If your wash is lower abv youll need more power and more time.

What did i miss? Uhh for foaming definitely use a silicone defoamer. For solids and grains, well i use a pump in the wash barrel so thats a problem already. Dont worry about yeast or starches but if you're using 3/8" clear your grains.
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Re: inline stripping flange

Post by OtisT »

Thanks Evil Wizard for the detailed reply. I think I have just enough info to complete my first stripper build and start experimenting with this. I do have a few more build questions, but will draw up my plans and reread this and some other threads first to see if I can figure it out.

I do have one run question: Where do you add the silicone de-foamer agent? I assume the boiler, as that stuff floats on a wash, but thought I would double check and be sure I am not to add it to the input wash reservoir. I would have thought that the input wash would need the agent, to prevent foaming at the input point in the column, but since that stuff forms a film on top I don’t think that would be effective when added to the cold wash.

I’m excited about this. My batch size requires three strips and a single spirit run, and reducing this to a single strip will be well worth the time it takes to get this made and dialed in.

Otis
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