I've been reading up on lava rock . . . but what about ?

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francis
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I've been reading up on lava rock . . . but what about ?

Post by francis »

Vermiculite ? It's heated and popped rock. It's light. It has a high surface area and liquid holding power. It's already small, and uniform so you don't have to crush it. I use it in gardening. You can buy it at farm co-op. It doesn't break down.

Another thought is the porous clay spheres of uniform size used in hydroponics.
Last edited by francis on Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I've been reading up on lava rock . . . but what about ?

Post by bearriver »

There is discussion on perlite in Mash Rookie's "Let's talk column packing" thread.
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Re: I've been reading up on lava rock . . . but what about ?

Post by francis »

bearriver wrote:There is discussion on perlite in Mash Rookie's "Let's talk column packing" thread.
Thanks . . . lots of interesting things to try . . . http://www.farmtech-mart.com/grow_media" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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Re: I've been reading up on lava rock . . . but what about ?

Post by rad14701 »

Perlite, which comes in different sizes, is suitable but Vermiculite will cause flooding as it drains poorly once fully saturated...
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Re: I've been reading up on lava rock . . . but what about ?

Post by francis »

rad14701 wrote:Perlite, which comes in different sizes, is suitable but Vermiculite will cause flooding as it drains poorly once fully saturated...
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Re: I've been reading up on lava rock . . . but what about ?

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Re: I've been reading up on lava rock . . . but what about ?

Post by francis »

Read it. It's long.

So if conductivity isn't important ( lava rock isn't conductive), only surface profile, can we use cotton strips ? Because I want to build a spiral still and I could pull a piece of cotton through the coil pretty easily. It's also cheap and light and has a high surface area. It's non-toxic, and I think it's alcohol tolerant.

I'm not sure I trust the safety of lava rock, even if it works. I'll have to research it more.
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Re: I've been reading up on lava rock . . . but what about ?

Post by yakattack »

Cotton would absorb the alcohol. This is not what you are after. I can attest to the lava rocks. They are safe and work amazingly well.

If you are learie of using the lava rocks, use glass marbles or copper mesh or better yet spring for the spp. From what I've seen the stuff is amazing.

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Re: I've been reading up on lava rock . . . but what about ?

Post by Danespirit »

The perfect packing would be :
It has a big surface areal.
It wouldn't absorb any distillate.
It wouldn't pack so tight it causes flooding or puking in the column.

+1 Yak

Rad has made some experiments with marbles too.
Due to i haven't got my hands on something at a resonable price yet, i haven't tried coppermesh and SSP.
I would give lavarock a slight advantage over marbles, but my column runs great with both kinds of packing.
Odin has done a lot of experiments with SSP...
Hell, Big Sweede even buildt his own machine for it...he is a very talented craftsman. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... ine+begins
Saw a simpler take on it with a drillmachine and a "cutter" with a electromagnet in it.
However..it was no were near the quality of Sweede's built.
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Re: I've been reading up on lava rock . . . but what about ?

Post by francis »

It seems people who keep aquarium reef tanks won't use lava rock, and nor will hydroponic growers.

Found this pdf on heavy metals in agricultural sites with lots of volcanic rock in Turkey, and one of the tables specifically tests lava rock.

http://www.toprakbilimi.com/files/A13.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

This page from google books describes the exchange of lead from lava rock in green roof applications.

Image
Last edited by francis on Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I've been reading up on lava rock . . . but what about ?

Post by Danespirit »

Interesting readin, Francis..

I do some hydrophonic growing too (don't ask...).
For my setup i use LECA pebbles, they seem to be brilliant for the job.
Light, porous and handy if your plants have matured to the point when they should get real earth to grow in.
Made a box with a bubblestone in a waterbath, the rrots get a lot of oxygen (which is essential) and moisture due to the bubbling.
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Re: I've been reading up on lava rock . . . but what about ?

Post by Hound Dog »

francis wrote:It seems people who keep aquarium reef tanks won't use lava rock, and nor will hydroponic growers.

Found this pdf on heavy metals in agricultural sites with lots of volcanic rock in Turkey, and one of the tables specifically tests lava rock.

http://www.toprakbilimi.com/files/A13.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
The quote from the conclusion of that study....

"There-fore, we conclude that the soil and/or rocks of the volcanic
area in Hatay are not dangerously contaminated by heavy
metals, and utilization of these materials for agricultural
purposes pose no apparent threat."

I don't know, looks like some pretty scary results. But to each his own. Marbles or ceramic raschig rings are a good choice. I don't know that a spiral design would be effective. Spiral by design will allow condensate liquid to pool to the bottom side of the spiral tube and not interact with the packing. Do you have access to a mandrel bender that can fit column sized pipe? Interesting idea but I am not sure it is practical.

Some very experienced guys here come up with some whacked designs that are pretty cool. Googe comes to mind if you want to save height look at what he did, Swag is innovative with his air cooling, Cranky with building "with what you got" and Odin who is just off the charts. They all started by learning to distill before reinventing the still. What kind of still do you currently run?
Last edited by Hound Dog on Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I've been reading up on lava rock . . . but what about ?

Post by Hound Dog »

Danespirit wrote: I do some hydrophonic growing too (don't ask...).
:eh: ... :think: .......:esurprised:........... :shh:.......... :relaxed:
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Re: I've been reading up on lava rock . . . but what about ?

Post by humbledore »

Did you catch the part about manure having more heavy metals in it than the soil or rock? I don't think minerals are going to make it up and out of your still. Unless you have lava rocks on the downside for some reason.
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Re: I've been reading up on lava rock . . . but what about ?

Post by bearriver »

All of the common hydroponic mediums I know of have all been reported as tested. Hydroton, Grodan rockwool, Perlite, gravel... ect. I am a long time hydroponic gardener myself, as is quite a few other members... I understand the appeal of trying things that are laying around.

My experiences are right in line with what others have reported, such as Mash Rookie. I settled on lava rock as a happy compromise between cost and performance. Honestly the time I spent testing what others already have reported on was a total waste, and yielded no new discoveries.
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Re: I've been reading up on lava rock . . . but what about ?

Post by myles »

There is more than one type of lava rock.

Pumice is fine, and it is cut into pellets in various sizes for use as a filter media in all sorts of applications. I have graded pummice gravel in my column at the moment.
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Re: I've been reading up on lava rock . . . but what about ?

Post by myles »

You mentioned a spiral still.

Traditionally spiral stills are not packed, they just use natural induced reflux caused by heat loss through the copper wall of the spiral. The vapour / liquid interaction occurs on the wet copper surfaces.

They work but are effectively restricted to low power applications, for which they can work quite well. If your thinking of using packing it is much more efficient to put it in a straight vertical column.
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Re: I've been reading up on lava rock . . . but what about ?

Post by francis »

myles wrote:You mentioned a spiral still.

Traditionally spiral stills are not packed, they just use natural induced reflux caused by heat loss through the copper wall of the spiral. The vapour / liquid interaction occurs on the wet copper surfaces.

They work but are effectively restricted to low power applications, for which they can work quite well. If your thinking of using packing it is much more efficient to put it in a straight vertical column.
Yeah I was going to try it unpacked first. I'm going to use CSST, which has ridges in it. I have some copper spirals. But I've had the idea of revisiting the design SS for a while now. I didn't know how easy it would be to bend SS into a spiral, but then other members of the forum (like druken smurf) pointed me to the CSST gasline tubing.

-------------------
Some very experienced guys here come up with some whacked designs that are pretty cool. Googe comes to mind if you want to save height look at what he did, Swag is innovative with his air cooling, Cranky with building "with what you got" and Odin who is just off the charts. They all started by learning to distill before reinventing the still. What kind of still do you currently run?
I've got some copper stills, a spiral still where the ascending and descending spirals can come apart, a simple packed column still and a hybrid still combining a column with a spiral. My stills are air cooled. I wrapped pot scrubbers on the worm and that increased the cooling efficiency greatly.

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humbledore wrote:Did you catch the part about manure having more heavy metals in it than the soil or rock? I don't think minerals are going to make it up and out of your still. Unless you have lava rocks on the downside for some reason.

Good point, they may drain down, and the vapors would not be contaminated. Heavy metals (lead, cadmium, arsenic) build up in the body over time though, so no level is really safe. You might be able to chelate some out of the body with EDTA or frequent blood donation, but it's hard to get them out.
Last edited by francis on Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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