Stripping runs at Woodford Distillery

[der wo]

I am researching about stripping runs. Woodford is the only famous bourbon brand, which works with potstills. So their numbers are more interesting for us than the numbers of continous distillation distilleries.
Here is a short video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39MpPuyrNxI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Unfortunately there is no info about the abv of the mash, but:
-after 1. dist. they get 40pr
-after 2. dist. they get 110pr
-after 3. dist. they get 158pr

Unfortunately there is no info about diluting between the distillations. But it sounds as they don't dilute.
Do they really strip down from let say 16pr to 40pr? So per 100gal mash they collect 100 x 16 : 40 = 40gal low wines? That is 40%. We normally strip only max. 25%.
And from 40gal 40pr, they collect 40 x 40 : 110 = 14.5gal high wines?
And now they have 14.5 110pr in the last still and collect 14.5 x 110 : 158 = 10.1gal (minus fores and heads of course). So only 14.5 - 10.1 = 4.4gal remain in the still?

I am thinking about my next grain project (rye) and thinking about getting more (good) taste without going deeper into the (bad) tails while the spirit run. If longer stripping is the answer. And find more and more data (similar numbers also from scottish malt distilleries), that I am on the right way perhaps. I am also working on a rummager for my still, that I can strip deep and on the grain without scorching.

[Appalachia-Shiner]

You can't pay a lot of attention to the YouTube video. I am betting that they DO dilute the distillate before redistilling.
I have planned to take their Tour, but it kinda burns me that they charge $30 for the good tour. Free at a lot of the others.
They are really an upscale place with a lot of special event dinners and court the hi dollar consumer. I saw on Television just this week, they were having some sort of Bourbon Tasting....teaching you about the flavors....for $250.
Maybe I am just too uncouth to appreciate this stuff, and it is a really beautiful place.
They do indeed have their own cooperage, because I sold them a lot of White Oak logs to make barrel staves.

[der wo]

I am betting that they DO dilute the distillate before redistilling.

If this is true, do you mean, the 40pr after the first distillation is undiluted or diluted? Stripped down to 40 or only to perhaps 70 and then diluted with water to 40?

[DAD300]

I think the math is a little off...but not critically. You assume they throw off heads. Bet they don't and if so not much! Most of these guys rely on longer aging than we do to remove the heads and smooth tails.

From the video I caught they make four runs...pot, pot, pot and a double with a column thumper something or the other.

Anyway, longer heatup builds esters...my experience says I agree. I started slower heatups, almost double my norm, and there was a profound dif in the taste carried over.

But using a pot or not the process they describe is bizarre...three times through a pot and then column. That's very energy inefficient.

There is a barley distillery in U.S., Stranahan's that strips with four plates and then pot stills smaller charges. Tons of flavor...

[der wo]

I did not take the heads into calculation.

As far as I know, they use either the 3 times potstill distillation or a column, not both. I don't know, for what product they use what method. Perhaps they have problems with their rye in the potstills. Or they use the potstills only for the more expensive editions. Or they mix both before barreling.
But in the video they say clearly, after the third potstill distillation the newmake is finished.

[SaltyStaves]

In case you haven't seen the video from this series.

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =6&t=57892

I don't recall the Woodford tour specifically, but these videos are quite comprehensive.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

I'm a noob of course...
But from what I gathered in the video the use the the potstills in series, like large thumpers.

Maybe they keep some backset or some other proprietary mixture in the other stills and that does the work of dilution?

[Hillbilly Popstar]

"Triple distillation in copper potstills and a double distillation in a column thumper still set."

Whatever that is...

[buflowing]

They blend the pot stilled spirits with column stilled spirits. On the tour they don't talk about the column still (which is in another location), nor could the guide answer questions about dilution between runs.

[der wo]

Thank you buflowing. You ask the right questions. It's a shame, that they have for the tour a guide, who probably learned his text on memeory, but has no insight... If I ever will do such a tour, I fear I would be the smartass for the other visitors and the asshole for the guide. Smartasshole.

Perhaps I choosed the wrong topic title. What I want to discuss is stripping down to 40% mash volume. I yesterday googled "whisky low wines", the most numbers I got were 20-25% abv and a few crazy numbers like 10% and 15%. Perhaps for triple distillations, some distillers strip lower, I don't know.
The mash abv varies between 6 and 10%, so assuming 8% mash and 22% low wines, it means, they strip 36% mash volume.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

Gotta be just about distilled water coming out by the end of such a deep stripping run.

[der wo]

Gotta be just about distilled water coming out by the end of such a deep stripping run.

Really? At the end of a run you get water? I get a massive flavorfull liquid.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

I just meant no alcohol in it.

[der wo]

I know.
But this is the difference. To dilute with pure water or with flavorfull water.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

Yes.
I'm wondering what the difference is between this method and just diluting with backset?

Do you think they are distilling goodness from the mash and leaving some nasties behind?

At any rate, I think I may run my next 6gallon charge down to about half the original volume, then do the same with the 2nd gen, and combine the two for a spirit run.

[der wo]

I'm wondering what the difference is between this method and just diluting with backset?

That's making spirits. There are hundred of things to can try out.

At any rate, I think I may run my next 6gallon charge down to about half the original volume, then do the same with the 2nd gen, and combine the two for a spirit run.

I would not go lower than 20% abv total. Perhaps half the volume is a bit extreme. I will try something too, but I think in April, perhaps stripping from per 10l to 3.5-4l. 3 stripping runs for 1 spirit run.

[ukmoon]

I have had the barrel proof right out of barrel , it was 127 proof , if this helps

[NZChris]

I betcha the only diluting going on is to get to barrel strength, so that gives us their approximate distilling protocol for those who want to try something similar.

[jedneck]

On my stripping runs I run till the collected volume is 25-27% abv. On my still with my cuts it usually gives me a keep cut at 62-67% abv. Just rite for aging on oak with minimum water.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

62-67 on the collected volume or present distillate?

[jedneck]

62-67% on what I keep to age. Last run was 1 quart fore and early heads, 9 pints heads, 13 quarts keep what ever tails were left in the boiler.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

You got 4.5 quarts of heads to 14 quarts of keep?

How much of that 14 quarts would you say was tails?

[jedneck]

You got 4.5 quarts of heads to 14 quarts of keep?

How much of that 14 quarts would you say was tails?

That would depend on your definition of tails. Some would cal the last 3-5 quarts that I kept would be tails. And if I remember right I had about a gallon of tails left in the boiler.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

So 4.5 quarts of heads to 9-11 quarts of hearts? How is your hearts such a big portion? Generous cuts? I must be cutting too conservatively. Or is it a difference in what we are mashing? I have been doing adjunct sugar wash.

[jedneck]

Mine was an enzyme converted all grain. With all grain I found that the tails don't get skanky nasty, just grainy and watery. On sugar heads I found the tails were nasty. I also found that for a good depth of flavour I need tails in my blend. But they do take time to age into a good drop. This batch is just starting to get to the 2 month funk. It is planned to be on oak for at least 6 months hopefully it makes it a year though.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

I have much to learn. Thanks for the info.

[der wo]

I betcha the only diluting going on is to get to barrel strength, so that gives us their approximate distilling protocol for those who want to try something similar.

That's what I wanted to hear. So I am not the only one, who believes in this protocol.

[der wo]

With all grain I found that the tails don't get skanky nasty, just grainy and watery.

Yes. I also recognized this. Especially 100% corn "don't get skanky nasty" in the tails.

[greggn]

> They blend the pot stilled spirits with column stilled spirits.


I believe that is also the protocol for Ketel One vodka.

[myles]

If you are following the clasical pot still sequence of beer (strip) still producing low wines, low wines producing either high wines or product depending on if it is 2x or 3x run, then you charge the boiler with low wines at 27 to 30% ABV.

Now many folks run so far into their strip run that their low wines are diluted to the correct proof. I tend to strip until I get vapour temp of 98 degrees when i turn the power off. I will leave the condenser running because the hot boiler is still producing vapour as it cools. For me it is not energy efficient to keep pumping in power fot the last bit of alcohol.

It makes good sense when doing a 3x pot still run to dilute the charge on the second run, you will get back to cask strength on the final run.

Slightly out of context but on simmilar principles, when distilling gin you dilute the charge so you have less dilution of the product. Diluting product ABV also dilutes product flavour.