Foreshots after a second run

[eStill]

I normally throw away the first quarter pint from a 2 gallon run. (Or keep it as windshield de-icer.)

Recently, I decided to taste the difference with a double and a triple distillation. I ran through once, discarded my 1/4 pint, and got a good 4 pints of juice. I have a paranoia (which i believe I learned here) about heating a liquid which is over 40% ABV, so I added about 4 pints of tapwater and ran it again.

Now, here's the thing: my first few ounces over came out tasting like peardrops - I think that means it's still got high esters. Not good.

So, the big question: Are the nasties in the foreshots created during the distillation, or are they purely a fraction which was created during the fermentation?

And the backup question: If they're there from fermentation, why might they still remain after I've tossed away a quarter pint off my first run?

[Fivey]

The are there from the fermentation process. They are still there on a second run because there isn’t a hard cut-off where undesired chemicals are no longer present; they taper off to a level where they are less significant. On your second run, what was on your low wines is compressed into the fores (just like in the first run) and you again draw off a high percentage of undesirables, but as they taper off again into a less significant ratio, the proportion will be less in the new make than was in the low wines because of the second compression.

[Yummyrum]

Like Fivey said , separation is not very defined in a pot still . If you want to separate the various fractions with more definition you need to go for a reflux still where ofter 10-20 redistillations are happening in a single run . .... with minimal wastage .
However this will give you a very tasteless product .

Do you want taste ? ... then stick with your pot still .

[eStill]

That's helpful, thanks. I don't think I want taste: I plan to make gin. Maybe I do want taste. Dunno. Still learning!
The point is that with each subsequent distillation, I loose more of the nasties.
It's a column still but I have no idea how effective my 1m long 28mm pipe is for refluxing. I've got it about 1/4 full of ceramic beads.

[still_stirrin]

That's helpful, thanks. I don't think I want taste: I plan to make gin. Maybe I do want taste. Dunno. Still learning!
The point is that with each subsequent distillation, I loose more of the nasties.
It's a column still but I have no idea how effective my 1m long 28mm pipe is for refluxing. I've got it about 1/4 full of ceramic beads.

Making gin is a little different from a brown spirit as far as flavor goes. When making gin, you want a flavorless neutral to macerate the botanicals in so that you capture their essence, not the spirit base. For this, I typically reflux to get the neutral base. Then, after maceration, I potstill the macerate to get the gin (and all its flavor).

It seems more difficult to make a “one and done” gin unless you have a still (like a CM/flute) where you can put a Carter head on the top to infuse the botanicals. So, it kinda’ depends on what equipment you have.
ss

[eStill]

I've been getting fairly good results by steeping the botanicals in vodka then redistilling. I'm struggling to get the timing right: if I leave them to soak too long, it tastes like tea!! In fact, I've had some great results just by tossing the botanicals into a water / vodka mix and running it through the column again.

[NZChris]

For gin, you only have to do a really good job of cleaning up the base spirit if it has flavors that aren't a match for the gin. If you make the base spirit to match the gin, double pot stilled may be better than your finest refluxed neutral.

I quite often see recommendations to use very clean neutral, but when checking what is traditionally used for that particular product, it often turns out they used grape or grain based spirits, making the recommended neutral less than ideal.

[acfixer69]

That's helpful, thanks. I don't think I want taste: I plan to make gin. Maybe I do want taste. Dunno. Still learning!
The point is that with each subsequent distillation, I loose more of the nasties.
It's a column still but I have no idea how effective my 1m long 28mm pipe is for refluxing. I've got it about 1/4 full of ceramic beads.

What type of reflux reflux condenser are you using.

[Saltbush Bill]

why might they still remain after I've tossed away a quarter pint off my first run?

Cause you didn't get them all the first time.

[eStill]

What type of reflux reflux condenser are you using.

Wow. Haven't been here fr a while!!

It's just a column part-filled with ceramic beads. I had understood that gave some degree of reflux. All the vapour then goes down through a liebig, so unless the vapour is condensing in the beads, it has no opportunity to return to the boiler.