Making cuts with a parrot

[20literpotstill]

I only started using a parrot recently, and I don't know how I ever did without it! In the quantity I run, I used to distill directly into Mason jars, label them #1, #2 etc., then check the taste and measure the proof of each jar, pouring it into a tall proofing beaker using a funnel - spillage a nightmare. Now, with a parrot, after collecting the foreshots (which I use for removing the permanent marker notes on my lids), I simply note the starting and ending ABV, and do this until I get down to about 20%. The interesting part? Add your starting and ending percent together for each jar and that is the Proof of what's in there! So if your hydrometer shows 78% when you start to fill your vessel, and 72% when you finish, the proof of that cut is 150! I've tested it and it always works!

[Expat]

You're missing a critical point here; Parrots also smear the cuts. This is particularly true for small setups, which it sounds like you have, because the overall volume is so small.

Others will disagree, but the only time a parrot is of use, is where cuts don't matter as much, e.g. a strip run. But for a spirit run its less than helpful. Use your sense of taste and smell.

[OtisT]

+1 to what expat said.

As a rule, there is no real need to know what the ABV is at any specific point in the distillation except possibly for when to cut things off. If you have a thermometer in the vapor path, that can be used to determine cutoff point and there is no need to measure any liquid. Product rate drop off can also be used to determine cutoff point. Make cuts by smell/taste, mix your keeper jars together and measure ABV of that mix for proofing.

Otis

[Saltbush Bill]

Agree with the above......knowing the abv doest help with making good cuts......only your god given senses can do that job.

[20literpotstill]

I have a temp sensor at the top of my column, and set aside my collection jars pretty much in accordance with that. I assume everything coming out before 170° (I'm at 2,400' elevation) is foreshore, so when it hits that temp, I empty my parrot into the foreshots jar and start collecting heads. I keep my induction cooktop set at 180°until the flow slows, then raise it to 180°. Higher proof alcohol will rise to the top of the parrot, so it's a pretty real-time measurement of what's coming out of my coil. I know it's not tried and true, but my tastebuds are really not trained enough at this point to trust making the cuts. I've been putting the heads and tails, separated by temperature and proof, and running them in subsequent runs of wash. I have only done secondary runs of spirit with fruit spirits, never with corn or AG Scot's runs because I thought this removed too much flavor. I use the percentages guide I found elsewhere on this site to approximate volumes from foreshore to tails based on my 15 liter wash runs. I'm learning, but you can't teach tastebuds, they're gonna have to get educated on their own I guess.

[NZChris]

If you use Kiwistiller's novice guide to cuts, you should be able to leave the parrot on the windowsill, tape over the thermometer, and make better booze.

[OtisT]

Wrong attitude! (Not meant as in insult, but inspirational.). You can train your taste buds/brain and you never will train them if you don’t start smelling and tasting. The beginners guide to cuts process is a great way to learn/train. Collect your run in 20 jars, let them air a day, then smell and taste you way through them using the process the guide suggests. If you can’t smell a difference between foreshots from heads from hearts from tails, even without knowing what they are by name, your senses are dead and you’ll drink anything so all this is moot. It’s the transition between them that are a bit fuzzy at first, but with a little practice you can discover what type of cut you prefer. Many start with a conservative cut, then get more liberal at one or both ends to see how that impacts their spirits. Once you know the level of smells and tastes you don’t like and choose to cut, it’s easier to transition to cuts off of the still.

Another issue with using someone else’s opinion on what temp to make cuts by, is that different wash ABVs will put the “right” cut location at a different temp. This point of preference will likely vary by spirit style too (whiskey vs rum vs ....)

The last point about cuts by someone else’s temp criteria is that folks have different preferences as to where cuts should be made. I just shared samples of various spirits with another stiller who is quite experienced. He definitely prefers and makes a wider heads cut than I do for both whiskey and rum. He also prefers and makes a narrower tails cut on his whiskey. Neither is wrong, but there are noticeable differences in where our cuts are made.

I think if you follow and trust that cuts guide process, you will gain the confidence in your senses you need to make good cuts. Then try throwing that parrot on there and see what it does to your spirits.

One last bit of advice is to make sure you are both smelling and tasting jars. (Dilute 50/50 with water before tasting). While for me some smells gently transition, I find that for myself the tastes are more defined and the quality of my spirits improved when I began making final cut decisions by taste.

Best of luck to you, regardless of your method. Otis

[Twisted Brick]

... my tastebuds are really not trained enough at this point to trust making the cuts.

Neither are mine. Part of this reason is because I am mashing different grain bills (haven't made the same back-to-back batches yet) and every mash/ferment/distillation behaves differently. Leaving the cuts to my parrot (which I now don't use outside of tails on strips) would be like shooting in the dark.

[Saltbush Bill]

You can teach noses and tastebuds.....and you start the teaching ASAP. The longer you delay the longer it will be before you learn.

[6 Row Joe]

I started with a test cylinder and a hydrometer. When it got close to full I took a reading and poured it in the jar. Now I go by taste and smell. When I get close to the tails I take a reading to see how close to the end I am. The thermometer in the top of the column is a closer indicator at 105°.

[20literpotstill]

Lots of very helpful information I've gotten here. It's funny, when I'm not running wash, I trust my smell and taste senses to separate score bought whiskeys that I will or will not drink. I've been drinking single malts for nigh on 40 years now, and can smell an Islay from the end of the bar, and know just where a good Highland needs to feel on my tongue. I guess it's being inundated with so many jars after running three 3-hour runs back to back (it takes my still about an hour to heat up to flow temps) that has kept me from learning to trust my senses. Collecting the shine in smaller jars then waiting a day to taste and smell them sounds like something that will definitely help. Maybe I'll put the sequence number on the bottom of a sticky so I can guess as to whether I'm into heads, hearts or tails will help. Where do I find that Kiwi guide to making cuts referred to above?

[still_stirrin]

... Where do I find that Kiwi guide to making cuts referred to above?

A very quick search netted this thread: viewtopic.php?f=63&t=13261

Try using the HDGoogle search tool to find info...it’s easy and very powerful. And you’ll learn a lot without being “spoonfed”. Try it.
ss

[Saltbush Bill]

Lots of very helpful information I've gotten here. It's funny, when I'm not running wash, I trust my smell and taste senses to separate score bought whiskeys that I will or will not drink. I've been drinking single malts for nigh on 40 years now, and can smell an Islay from the end of the bar, and know just where a good Highland needs to feel on my tongue. I guess it's being inundated with so many jars after running three 3-hour runs back to back (it takes my still about an hour to heat up to flow temps) that has kept me from learning to trust my senses. Collecting the shine in smaller jars then waiting a day to taste and smell them sounds like something that will definitely help. Maybe I'll put the sequence number on the bottom of a sticky so I can guess as to whether I'm into heads, hearts or tails will help. Where do I find that Kiwi guide to making cuts referred to above?

Nice if you can do that you can make good cuts ...just don't expect your new make to smell /taste the same as aged and oaked spirits. Its just a case of learning.

I trust my smell and taste senses to separate store bought whiskeys that I will or will not drink.

Just trust your senses and you will be rewarded, different spirits smell n taste different ways and need slightly different cuts, but you really do need to learn this art if you want to make good home made booze.

[NZChris]

When using Kiwistiller's method, you don't have to bugger up your tastebuds by tasting every jar. I pick out the obvious hearts by nose, then try to identify the jars I don't want to add by tasting, using a spittoon and rinsing between samples. Finally, making up representative samples of my prospective blends before committing my choice to one vessel. Keep good notes for next time.

I don't air the obvious heart cut at all, only airing the early jars, as I think the logic for extensive airing of all jars is flawed, plus that airing can easily be taken too far.

[Saltbush Bill]

you don't have to bugger up your tastebuds by tasting every jar. I pick out the obvious hearts by nose, then try to identify the jars I don't want to add by tasting,

Nice post Well said, and how most end up doing it once experienced enough.

[MtRainier]

You're missing a critical point here; Parrots also smear the cuts. This is particularly true for small setups, which it sounds like you have, because the overall volume is so small.

Others will disagree, but the only time a parrot is of use, is where cuts don't matter as much, e.g. a strip run. But for a spirit run its less than helpful. Use your sense of taste and smell.

Jesse did a good video with colored water that convinced me about smearing with a parrot.

https://youtu.be/E75rEcijWjQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I do use a parrot usually, even on pot still strips and spirit runs, but mine has a dump valve on the bottom to empty it out between jars. I'll eventually stop using it, because I can tell when the run is about done at this point. The output starts getting cloudy and I have to turn up the power to keep the same output rate because it takes more heat to vaporize water than it does alcohol. Then I know I'm done.

Mid-run, I just collect in equal size mason jars and sort out cuts later. If I was making the same recipe all the time and had most variables sorted out I'd collect a couple of jars at the start and finish and just put what I knew would be hearts in a carboy in the middle to start.

[bluefish_dist]

After a lot of runs, maybe 70-80 I could pick the cuts within one jar simply by where they were in the run. But that took a lot of runs and doing good cuts by taste and smell to start.

Using a thermometer I never felt the need for a parrot as they perform the same function. I found the thermometer was critical for vodka to be able to monitor the change in the abv over time and to know when to adjust the reflux.

[Saltbush Bill]

to be able to monitor the change in the abv over time and to know when to adjust the reflux.

Yeah true .. to tell when tails were coming .....could have done the same with taste,smell and feel, without all the gadgets.