Making Distilling Legal?

[bluethunder_69]

do you think that if a petition was started and enough people signed we would be able to change the laws on home distilling?

[Uncle Jesse]

i'm all for organizing to make this hobby legal. say up to a 20 gallon still? 25 gallon still? as long as there is no resale.

should i start calling congressmen?

[bluethunder_69]

yeah sounds like a good idea but there would have to be laws so its safe to do it i.e must read a book and pass a test to be legaly allowed to brew and distill alcohol at home do you think its possible to change the laws?

[bluethunder_69]

sorry for the double post

[Rickle]

Start one and I'll sign it. There are online petition web sites, just google it and get the ball rolling.

[bluethunder_69]

ok ive started writing up a petition and need help explaining my cause up to 1000 words was never good at writing lol and need a sponser and info bout the sponser and group so anyone willing to help post any ideas

[Guest]

i wouldnt count on it the US already has money troubles

[seedsprout]

i'm all for organizing to make this hobby legal. say up to a 20 gallon still? 25 gallon still? as long as there is no resale.

should i start calling congressmen?

*Ahem....40 gal

[Yttrium]

For those of you interested, the last Congressman to introduce legislation to legalize home distilling was Bart Stupack from Michigan. If you happen to live in Bart's district, a phone call or letter to his office would be good.

[Guest]

The US has more money than any other country with a decent sized population and landmass. There are only a handfull of countries that have a higher standard of livin' and they are all tiny countries with a tiny population.

So what are these money problems? The only $ problems I see here in the states are the standard " a rich man can never have enough" sort of thing.

your right we do have alot of money but we spend to much also. im sure they would want to help homeless people out before they would legalise distilling.

[Guest]

i wouldnt count on it the US already has money troubles

i didnt exacly mean the us is a poor country i was trying to say that there alot of things like distilling that deal with the US losing money or having to give away money

[seedsprout]

Since 9/11 I don't see the US govn't giving more freedom, sheez It's becoming a strangle hold where I live next to the Canadian border , tons of horror stories.

[Uncle Jesse]

distilling would be a reasonable compromise for some politician. so many people are on the negative trip right now, some unknown could grab this issue by the horns and laud himself as a freedom-lover.

as far as safety, i can reload my own cartridges at home. gunpowder isn't all that safe if mishandled. the same goes for welding, working on cars, a lot of hobbies. distillation is just another along these lines.

the feds do not care if you know how to distill. at some point the fine letter of the law says it's illegal, but how many people with stovetop stills get busted? they are out for the revenue. they even call the entire process of bonding and licensing "protecting the revenue." they have little interest in the spirits themselves. as long as it's small amounts and not for sale - much like beer - i don't see why they'd care. as long as you aren't giving it to people who are under age or beating their spouses or driving around hammered, of course. but those things are already illegal and we all know it's cheaper to go buy a bottle of cheap liquor than to make the equivalent amount at home.

the real hassle would be overcoming the puritanistic attitude of the united states citizens themselves.

[outlawokie]

Laws and politics Isnt Illegal a sick bird

[Yttrium]

I've always doubted that there would ever be some public groundswell movement to legalize home distillation. The hobby is just too small. A more likely route to getting home distilling legal would be a congressman tacking on a small bit of legislation to a much larger bill that has nothing to do with distillation.

[Fourway]

your right we do have alot of money but we spend to much also. im sure they would want to help homeless people out before they would legalise distilling.

I bet there are a whole lot of homeless people who'd consider legalized distilling tobe a big help.

[runforthehills]

I doubt it would work in these times. Politicians lately (particularly Republicans) seem to be obsessed with pandering to the religious right....and the narrow minded judgemental views they support.

Im afraid even the legal version of our hobby is frowned upon by most of these folks....playing cards, gambling, lotteries, drinking, marital aids (sex toys) dirty movies, etc etc...have all been targets for this crowd lately and it seems to be trending to more restrictive...not less restrictive...

Im not sure if its liberal, conservative or libertarian, or a combination of all, but why cant folks just leave other folks alone ? as long as they dont bother anyone, let em be ? folks have always got to be getting in other folks business.... I dont care if my neighbor home schools his kids and forces em to memorize scripture 12 hours a day...why should he care if I brew hooch on the back porch ?

Good luck with the petition....But Im not holding my breath...

[USarmy21]

Im not sure if its liberal, conservative or libertarian, or a combination of all, but why cant folks just leave other folks alone ? as long as they dont bother anyone, let em be ? folks have always got to be getting in other folks business.... I dont care if my neighbor home schools his kids and forces em to memorize scripture 12 hours a day...why should he care if I brew hooch on the back porch ?

damn right. the answer to why they get in other peoples business is simple. they only look at things from their view. we have to make them look at making distilling legal from our view.

[Blueraven]

I just sent an email to one of myu congress folk.

where is the petition in the US?

HOw to sign it?

How to get a copyu of all the signtures etc.

Blueraven

[Rocky_Creek]

Lets see, it's you and me against how many billions a year? Don't waste your time.

[Bujapat]

Don't worry men... It's the same in Europe (i.e. Belgium)... The political discourse is stamped of religious, economical, "patriotics",individualist and archaic...pinciples. In my country, any young people may buy and drink alcohol from 16 old, but home distilling is illegal! I may buy a copper pot still (100% functional) in a brewshop, but there is a small label on it on wich you can read : " For decorative use only". Law is so hypocrite...
I'd have a lot to write about that, but especially in this case, my poor knowledge of english is a real problem...
Good luck in the States with your petition... I think we're not enough here to do anything! One proof : no website like this in french!

[Blueraven]

THM,

I sent an email to my congressman abt it. No response yet. Too early. I cld not find the petition at the Yahoo forums.

where is the petition that has all the signatures? Thats what i need to send.

Thanks

BR

[Harry]

THM,

I sent an email to my congressman abt it. No response yet. Too early. I cld not find the petition at the Yahoo forums.

where is the petition that has all the signatures? Thats what i need to send.

Thanks

BR

It's in the Database. It's been up nearly a year. It expires 31st March. There's one (1) signatory (false, I might add).

I told the author that would be the case, but I put it up anyway, just to prove a point. The problem with this type of petition is twofold:
(1) Because distilling is an illegal activity, people are reluctant to give true contact details (would you?).
(2) Govt. bodies will NOT accept ANY petition, electronic or otherwise, that has signatories that cannot be contacted. Read the petition guidelines on govt. sites.

So there you have it. But if you want a copy of the petition itself (well written, may be useful), then go here...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distiller ... tition.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

The author's contact details are inside the petition.


Hmmm...as an afterthought, here's the entire thing. Some folks may not be able to access it via the link.

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The following E-petition is for the institution of a home distillation exemption in the United States of America, similar to those currently in law that provide for exemptions to Federal excise tax regulations for the home production of beer and wines. Currently there is no quantity of distilled spirits that may be legally produced without meeting very onerous and specific regulations, designed to regulate commercial distilleries, and prevent "moon shiners" from selling spirits without paying taxes or regard to beverage safety.



Please note that this petition is for a change at the Federal level only, and that other petitions may be necessary to allow for such activity at the local and state levels. Many states have Liquor Control Boards or similar entities that have enacted additional regulation over this activity.



You may sign this E-petition at the following website:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distiller ... Rows&tbl=4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow



This E-petition will conclude March 31st 2006.

At that time a HARD COPY of the E-petition will be generated and sent to the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau Regulations and Procedures Division at the following address:



Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau

Regulations and Procedures Division

1310 G Street, NW - Room 200 East

Washington, D.C. 20220



Thank you,

Jeff Gedney

1991 Nichols Ave

Stratford, CT. 06614


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Petition

We the undersigned, being aware that there is currently no exemption in the US Code of Federal Regulations for hobby and personal distilled spirits production, whereas such exemptions exist for the home production of wines and beer, specifically US Code of Federal Regulations, Title 27, Part 24.75 and Title 27, Part 25.205, and further noting that such an exemption for hobby distillation exists in New Zealand and that this exemption has not caused in that Country any deleterious effects as to public health or generated any significant loss of income to commercial distilleries, do herein petition that the following exemption, or similar language, be added to the



US Code of Federal Regulations, Title 27, Part 19, "Distilled Spirits Plants":

Subpart D_Administrative and Miscellaneous Provisions

Section 19.xx Distilled Spirits for personal or family use.

(a) General. Any adult may, without payment of tax, produce distilled spirits for personal or family use and not for sale.

(b) Quantity. The aggregate amount of distilled spirits that may be produced exempt from tax with respect to any household may not exceed:

(1) 10 proof gallons per calendar year for a household in which two or more adults reside, or

(2) 5 proof gallons per calendar year if there is only one adult residing in the household.

(c) Records. Reports concerning the operations need not be submitted unless required by the Director, but records of the quantities of spirits produced, received, and used each day shall be made and retained for inspection by ATF officers upon request.

(d) Definition of an adult. For the purposes of this section, an adult is any individual who is 18 years of age or older. However, if the locality in which the household is located has established by law a greater minimum age at which distilled spirits may be sold to individuals, the term ``adult'' will mean an individual who has attained that age.

(e) Limitation. This exemption should not in any manner be construed as authorizing the production of distilled spirits in violation of applicable State or local law.

(f) Removal. Distilled spirits produced under this section may be removed from the premises where made for personal or family use including use at organized affairs, exhibitions or competitions, such as home distiller’s contests, tastings or judgings, but may not under any circumstances be sold or offered for sale.

(h) Exemptions. Any distilled spirits plant operated under this section shall be exempt from all requirements of provision of 26 U.S.C. Chapter 51 (other than 26 U.S.C. 5312), or this part (other than this section).

(g) Revocation. The personal use exemption instituted by this section shall be revoked and the operator liable to all penalties implicit or explicit in all applicable provisions under any or several of the following conditions:

(1) Unsafe operation. Should ATF or other Law enforcement personnel find operating conditions of the distilling apparatus to pose a hazard to the operator, their family or their community, the exemption instituted under this section shall be revoked.

Unsafe conditions include but are not limited to the following:

(i) The use of unsafe materials in the construction of the distilling apparatus or storage containers.

(ii) The presence of harmful or otherwise controlled chemical contaminants in the still, base mash, distillate, or containers used.

(iii) Operating conditions judged to pose a health or fire hazard.

(iv) Insufficiently supervised operation of distilling apparatus.

(2) Disallowed distribution. Disallowed distribution of distilled spirits cause the exemption instituted under this section to be revoked. Disallowed distribution methods include but are not limited to the following:

(i) Distilled spirits moved across any borders in violation of any local or state laws that may apply in either locality or state.

(ii) Distilled spirits given to or made accessible to minors.

(iii) Distilled spirits sold or bartered for any purpose.


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You may sign this E-petition at the following website:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distiller ... Rows&tbl=4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow



This E-petition will conclude March 31st 2006.

[Guest]

OK i signed it but it made me enter my yahoo id etc..

I have people that will sign it but arn't members of Yahoo forums..


what then?

Blueraven

[Guest]

Well maybe it will work..ill sing off and try it.

BR
====

[Harry]

OK i signed it but it made me enter my yahoo id etc..

I have people that will sign it but arn't members of Yahoo forums..


what then?

Blueraven

And that's another hurdle with this. The petition needs to be hosted on a site that has free access, no login required. Yahoo & many others require login to get access to group-related things like databases etc.

The only way this thing can do any good, is to host copies on as many sites as possible, collect as many LEGIT sigs as possible (very difficult, given the subject), and post them all off to one spokesperson or collection house, namely Mr. Jeff Gedney the original author.

Of course we have to take on trust that he's on the level, but I have had dialog with him via email & group msgs, and I'm satisfied he's kosher. However, I don't trust the Govt. agents who ultimately receive the sigs to be as benevolent. You'll notice I haven't signed, even though I'm not in the US.

[Nichevo]

We need a Canadian petition, I highly doubt it would go anywhere with the liberals though. They tax the hell out of booze here, the cheapest 66er of crap whiskey is ~50 bucks here in Ontario, I know Manitoba and Saskatchewan are about the same. I can't remember the prices in Alberta.

[Grayson_Stewart]

What is a 66er?

[Harry]

What is a 66er?

A gripper.

Ok, according to wiki...

List of Canadian slang words or phrases

Numbers
2-4 — (two four) a case of 24 beer ("Beer" being the plural of "Beer")
26er (also 2-6, twixer) — a 26 & 2/3 imperial fl oz (758 ml) in earlier times, or 750 ml (26.4 fl oz) bottle of alcohol
40 — a 40 fl oz (1 imperial quart, 1.14 L) bottle of alcohol. (see forty pounder)
60 or "60-pounder"-- a 1.75 L (61.6 imperial fl oz) bottle of spirits, most likely rye (Canadian whisky)
66er — a former 66.6 imperial fl oz (1/2 U.S. gallon, 1.89 L) bottle of alcohol, probably also applied to 1.75 L (61.6 imperial fl oz) bottles (see gripper)

Gripper — a former 66 imp fl oz (1/2 U.S. gal) or a 1.75 L (61.6 imp fl oz) bottle of liquor. So named for either having a looped handle on the bottle neck, or matching indented "grips" on the body of the bottle.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_slang" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Nichevo]

I had no idea that was Canadian slang

They are 1.75 liters I think. So a 60 ouncer is 50 bucks plus tax.