Using a copper liner inside a SS column

[shadylane]

To keep from hi-jacking someone else's post
I decided to start a new topic on using a copper liner inside a SS column.
Here's the original post

Durhommer.. where did you ever get that idea, as that will never work properly.. what packing are you going to use for refluxing with..

Here's a better idea for all ss column buyer / builder.. if your column size is 2", get a DWV piece of copper pipe and fit it inside the ss column.. and if the copper pipe is a little to big, just cut a slice length wise and press it in.. done having to have copper in a ss column vapor path.. and the benefit is that you can use the best packing available.. the same can be done for a 3" column..

Mars

Stillerboy
Where did you ever get that idea
That sounds like a lot of unnecessary work trying to make a copper liner for a SS column.

[Zeotropic]

I really like that idea because I have been designing my next still and I really want to use all stainless steel even though it is a bit more expensive.
I bet any sheet copper could be used in a similar fashion.

[shadylane]

For clarity, the SS column Stillerboy said a copper liner was needed in, was an Old school CM design with a concentric dephlegmator.

Besides adding unnecessary weight and cost to the column
The liner shouldn't extend into the concentric dephlegmator.
Doing so would limit the deflegs ability to condense alcohol vapors.

[Deplorable]

I dont see any reason why a 6 dollar sheet of 30 gage copper from the craft store Couldn't be used to sleeve a SS spool rather than a roll of copper mesh to get copper in the vapor path. Why shop for DWV pipe unless you already have some on hand?

[Durhommer]

Stillerboy had a good idea the old cm head is not gonna be used any longer and yeah the copper from hobby lobby isn't a bad idea either. I'm switching to a still like deplorable just made

[shadylane]

For Safety reasons

Ya'll want to be careful about using to too thin of copper foil
If it breaks loose, a piece of it might plug up something important

Having a sleeve slip loose and slide down into the boiler charge wouldn't be good either.

Those were some of the reasons I terminated my sleeved column experiments

PS
Didn't mean to sound like an ass
I was waiting for Stillerboy to defend his idea in person.

[Saltbush Bill]

Any one who has the skills and tools to cut copper pipe and then sleeve stainless pipe with the copper.......could put thier time and energy to better use.......just use the copper pipe to build the column and be done with it.

[Deplorable]

Any one who has the skills and tools to cut copper pipe and then sleeve stainless pipe with the copper.......could put thier time and energy to better use.......just use the copper pipe to build the column and be done with it.

This, of course is always the preferred alternative. But if you are all thumbs with a torch, or already bought an all SS unit, is sleeving an existing spool a viable alternative to copper mesh to get copper in the vapor path? Would it require more, or less maintenance than mesh packing?

[Yummyrum]

Agree with Salty ,and Copper is so much easier to deal with than staino.

But if you don’t like the look of copper , you could sleeve it in Stainless steel

At least it would be safe .

Edited.

[manu de hanoi]

a spiral roll of copper sheet has more surface than a pipe or a simple lining. Put it on the top of the packing. 10cm roll height is enough for reflux columns.

[Yummyrum]

Excellent idea mdh.

I understand Shadys concerns about thin stuff eventually decomposing and the possibility of it becoming a blockage risk , but if it were of a thick enough gauge to begin with , it should last for ever .... certainly the life time of home distilling .

[Saltbush Bill]

But if you don’t like the look of copper , you could sleeve it in Stainless steel

Wash your mouth out Yummy.....imagine covering a beautiful piece of copper with stainless.

[shadylane]

Here's what could happen if a sleeve dropped down into the boiler

This, of course is always the preferred alternative. But if you are all thumbs with a torch, or already bought an all SS unit, is sleeving an existing spool a viable alternative to copper mesh to get copper in the vapor path? Would it require more, or less maintenance than mesh packing?

I'd vote for copper mesh in the bottom of the column.
Copper and SS expand at different rates
If anyone wants to sleeve a spool, make sure it can't slide down.
Because if it did, The boiler pressure will spike, when it tries to blow wash up the sleeve and column.

On a side note
I'm not convinced there's enough sulfur compounds in a sugar wash to worry about.
And if there was, there's better ways to get copper into the vapor path than sleeving.

[SomethingObscure]

I've been thinking about this since Twisted Brick highlighted stillboys idea in my build thread.

I was wondering how much is enough[emoji780]

I'm guessing the anser might be the more the merrier. So let me explain my plan. I'll have load of 15mm pipe leftover, if I cut if down it length this will give me a strip about 45mm wide by the length of pipe (3m for a full stick). I can then create and spiral of copper to wedge into the column.

If I do 10 spirals it'll of a 1.1m length by 45mm, it'll restrict the 76mm column by about 20%. And will give me approximately .1 of a square meter of surface area. Which if my maths is correct is equivalent to 0.44m of 76mm pipe internal surface area.

So it that enough on a 3" column which is completely stainless[emoji780]

Will the restrictions in the column have any Ill effects on the function, as the vapour speed increases through this section[emoji780] And as it enters the packing[emoji780]

Any way I'm sure as always I'm over thinking this.

Cheers

SomethingObscure


“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
-Albert Einstein

[RC Al]

A catalyser is what is needed - like the big boys. Cut up a bunch of 3/8 copper tube into 1 or 2 inch lengths and spot solder them into a honeycomb pattern that fits inside the spool and can just sit underneath (could double as a packing retainer) and/or on top of the packing. Easy to clean in some vinegar or citric and wont disappear anywhere near as quick as scrubbies

Ive seen it argued that copper walls dont actually grant you that much vapour contact as the vapour generally goes up the middle (personally i dont think its an issue with an all copper still), I cant say the right or wrong of that, but if right, only doing a short section of a column wall would not be very effective.

The bottom of my pot still riser collects some for sure

[manu de hanoi]

Cut up a bunch of 3/8 copper tube into 1 or 2 inch lengths and spot solder them into a honeycomb pattern

seems hard to do even if you have a spot welder. just thow your pieces of tube on top of packing

[jonnys_spirit]

A couple long pieces in the shape of a + or maybe even closer to a * would provide contact for the full length. Cut it slightly under the DIA and you can wedge it with mash for the old easy in/out.

Cheers!
Jonny

[Zeotropic]

Cut up a bunch of 3/8 copper tube into 1 or 2 inch lengths and spot solder them into a honeycomb pattern

seems hard to do even if you have a spot welder. just thow your pieces of tube on top of packing

I would just wrap a wire around the bundle and hit it with the oxyacetylene for a few seconds and solder a few spots, it would hold just fine but it would have to be anchored in the column somehow.

[manu de hanoi]

Cut up a bunch of 3/8 copper tube into 1 or 2 inch lengths and spot solder them into a honeycomb pattern

seems hard to do even if you have a spot welder. just thow your pieces of tube on top of packing

I would just wrap a wire around the bundle and hit it with the oxyacetylene for a few seconds and solder a few spots, it would hold just fine but it would have to be anchored in the column somehow.

no need to anchor if on top of packing

[shadylane]

A friend packs his column with copper mesh for his stripping runs.
He figures that's the best way to get the most copper in contact with the vapor.
On the spirit runs, he throws a big wad of copper mesh in his SS boiler.

[Zeotropic]

Here's what could happen if a sleeve dropped down into the boiler

dropped sleeve.png

This, of course is always the preferred alternative. But if you are all thumbs with a torch, or already bought an all SS unit, is sleeving an existing spool a viable alternative to copper mesh to get copper in the vapor path? Would it require more, or less maintenance than mesh packing?

I'd vote for copper mesh in the bottom of the column.
Copper and SS expand at different rates
If anyone wants to sleeve a spool, make sure it can't slide down.
Because if it did, The boiler pressure will spike, when it tries to blow wash up the sleeve and column.

On a side note
I'm not convinced there's enough sulfur compounds in a sugar wash to worry about.
And if there was, there's better ways to get copper into the vapor path than sleeving.

Its a good thing youall are here to keep me from trying anything too crazy. [emoji16]