Marble size for a column

Distillation methods and improvements.

Moderator: Site Moderator

User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9675
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Marble size for a column

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Isnt it funny how times and ideas change,trends come and go, when I first started out stillin the general consensus was that things like marbles and Raschig Rings where outdated and not that great to use as packing in a reflux still, even heard of folk using shattered windscreen glass back then, everybody seemed to think structured copper mesh was a better option by a long way at that stage of the game.
Guess I must be stuck in a time warp.....my ol boka still pumps out azeo using mesh.
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10363
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: Marble size for a column

Post by shadylane »

I remember reading somewhere, about using smashed up porcelain from a crapper :lol:
Setsumi
Distiller
Posts: 1371
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:23 pm
Location: Central South Africa

Re: Marble size for a column

Post by Setsumi »

shadylane wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:34 pm
Andrew_90 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:48 pm

I assume the best to to buy the Tri Clover gaskets with the SS mesh to avoid the media falling into the still. How does one pour in the media without this sudden mass hitting the screen and secondly, how does one vibrate the column to ensure that the rings pack down even better.
I wouldn't worry about getting the rings to pack down. Mostly because they aren't going to.
If you use Tri Clover gaskets with the SS mesh. Make sure it's coarse so reflux can easily flow downwards through it.
make a weave of copper wire at the bottom and add a stainless steel scrubber. pour slowly at an angle. just watch what scrubber you get. my experience is that in RSA most are galvanized. i only saw real ss from 3M Scotch Brite.
My first flute
My press
My twins
My controller
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?
Andrew_90
Rumrunner
Posts: 613
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:24 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Re: Marble size for a column

Post by Andrew_90 »

Thanks.
One too many wasted sunsets, one too many for the road.
Andrew_90
Rumrunner
Posts: 613
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:24 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Re: Marble size for a column

Post by Andrew_90 »

Setsumi wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:08 am
shadylane wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:34 pm
Andrew_90 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:48 pm

I assume the best to to buy the Tri Clover gaskets with the SS mesh to avoid the media falling into the still. How does one pour in the media without this sudden mass hitting the screen and secondly, how does one vibrate the column to ensure that the rings pack down even better.
I wouldn't worry about getting the rings to pack down. Mostly because they aren't going to.
If you use Tri Clover gaskets with the SS mesh. Make sure it's coarse so reflux can easily flow downwards through it.
make a weave of copper wire at the bottom and add a stainless steel scrubber. pour slowly at an angle. just watch what scrubber you get. my experience is that in RSA most are galvanized. i only saw real ss from 3M Scotch Brite.
Cheers
One too many wasted sunsets, one too many for the road.
User avatar
SomethingObscure
Bootlegger
Posts: 146
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:17 am
Location: England.

Re: Marble size for a column

Post by SomethingObscure »


Andrew_90 wrote:Yip, that why I decided to go with the 6mm Raschig Rings.

I use Rashig Rings in biological aquaria filters, these are really good as they present large areas for the bacteria to populate. There is no solid round shaped media, to the best of my knowledge available. Round plastic balls are used but these have multitudes of perforations.
...
I've been follow this thread while look for alternative to the lava rock, I've tried to brake up to the required size. Mine ended up being about 12-15mm. But very uneven size and shape and almost impossible to get any smaller without going too small.

I've done the sac run and am brewing up my first wpos wash to run though my ccvm.

But in my search for other media I came across spherical shape sintered glass beads.

https://eheim.com/en_GB/aquatics/filter ... atpro-180g

They appear to be a little larger than pea size. So probably about right for a 3" column.

Cheer SomethingObscure
User avatar
Garouda
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:39 pm
Location: Born in Belgium, living abroad

Re: Marble size for a column

Post by Garouda »

Andrew_90 wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:21 pm General question. Could one make your own Raschig Rings by taking 1/4" copper tube and guillotining it 1/4" long. Tumble it to remove sharp edges. Although time consuming would this be a worthy pursuit?
My Liebig condenser works fine in the VM reflux setup, thanks to the reflux condenser doing its part of the job. In the pot still set up, the Liebig can knock down the vapour, but the product is too hot. 51 °C at my last gin run, I did not measure t° during stripping runs. My alcohol balance showed a loss in the end due to evaporation I guess.
I'm going to re-design my Liebig, using 1/2" pipe as vapour tube instead of the existing - too short- Ø 10 mm pipe. (inside Ø 1" cooling pipe)

Some will say :shh: :"topic, please!"

Well I'm considering cutting that Ø10 mm pipe into short sections and use them as Raschig Rings. Same with some leftover pipe in Ø 1/2". Doing so will increase the copper content in my SS column, hitting two birds with one stone. So far, my packing materials consist in SS mesh, copper mesh and SS pot scrubbers. I had to throw away some made-in-China poor scrubbers and intend to use my home-made Raschig rings instead, together with the existing above-mentioned packing materials. (Ø 3" SS column, VM head)
It's making use of some material that would accumulate dust in a corner instead...
Experienced comments are more than welcome.
"In wine there is Wisdom, in beer there is Freedom, in water there are bacteria."
Benjamin Franklin
"In moonshine there is Rebeldom"
Garouda
Andrew_90
Rumrunner
Posts: 613
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:24 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Re: Marble size for a column

Post by Andrew_90 »

Update.

My column has a volume of 2.1 liters. So after some research I located some Raschig Ring's on an online distilling site in the U.S. The package is marked 2.5L and the supporting data claims 2.5L. I order and for no fault of the supplier the package takes a frustratingly long time to reach me. Shipped on the 25/03/2021 and I was able to collect on the 28/05/2021. The parcel spends 6 weeks in our totally inefficient Customs Department.

Anyways, the lady behind the counter produces the parcel and immediately I can see that there simply is not 2.5l volume in the package. Now I'm really ticked off. Get home and place the entire contents into a measuring container. It measures 1.8l at best. Now that is circa a 28% undersupply in the stated product volume. Simply unacceptable, I will concede that if I was an American that I would battle to judge 2.5L at a glance. I think these are probably sourced from China and that the Chinese supply company have slowly reduced the volume over time. This is my experience in my limited trade with the Chinese.

I have made representation to the supplier and am waiting for their response.

The supplier must make good on their 2.5l. Now I have to wait a probably a further two months to get the balance and I refuse to pay the shipping, I will have to pay the customs duties and VAT again.
One too many wasted sunsets, one too many for the road.
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9675
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Marble size for a column

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Isnt it funny how things go around , back when I was a Newb people where saying Raschig Ring's where not that great, nor were glass marbles......before that it was broken windscreen glass, after rings and marbles copper mesh became all the rage.
Personally Ive always used copper mesh and never had a problem with it.
Not going to comment on what might best, seems to be too many opinions and Ive only tried one.
I will happily stick with what I'm using though.
User avatar
Bushman
Admin
Posts: 17988
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:29 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Marble size for a column

Post by Bushman »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 6:16 am Isnt it funny how things go around , back when I was a Newb people where saying Raschig Ring's where not that great, nor were glass marbles......before that it was broken windscreen glass, after rings and marbles copper mesh was all the rage.
Personally Ive always used copper mesh and never had a problem with it.
Not going to comment on what might best, seems to be too many opinions and Ive only tried one.
I will happily stick with what I'm using though.
Before ALS Mash Rookie was testing different packing material and has a thread on it. Like you Saltbush I use copper packing I make myself. If I were to go any bigger than a 4” column I think I would have to go to plates do to the weight on the packing during reflux. On a side note I was shopping at an antique store and they had a small 2” x 4” jar of marbles they wanted $22 for.
User avatar
Deplorable
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 3984
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
Location: In the East, (IYKYK)

Re: Marble size for a column

Post by Deplorable »

22 bucks? Them must be some rare marbles :crazy:
I've kicked around the idea of playing with different packing materials as well, but on my 2" column copper mesh is working just fine to get me 95% at a speed I don't find unacceptable. So, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9675
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Marble size for a column

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Bushman wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 6:21 am On a side note I was shopping at an antique store and they had a small 2” x 4” jar of marbles they wanted $22 for.
Deplorable wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 6:29 am 22 bucks? Them must be some rare marbles
You fellas wont wanna be packing ya columns with these then ..the right marbles can be worth some serious money....this is just an example ...plenty more out there if ya look.
https://www.collectorsweekly.com/art-gl ... s/auctions
or these .. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... =1&_sop=16
Andrew_90
Rumrunner
Posts: 613
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:24 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Re: Marble size for a column

Post by Andrew_90 »

Deleted.
One too many wasted sunsets, one too many for the road.
Andrew_90
Rumrunner
Posts: 613
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:24 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Re: Marble size for a column

Post by Andrew_90 »

Andrew_90 wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 3:36 am Update.

My column has a volume of 2.1 liters. So after some research I located some Raschig Ring's on an online distilling site in the U.S. The package is marked 2.5L and the supporting data claims 2.5L. I order and for no fault of the supplier the package takes a frustratingly long time to reach me. Shipped on the 25/03/2021 and I was able to collect on the 28/05/2021. The parcel spends 6 weeks in our totally inefficient Customs Department.

Anyways, the lady behind the counter produces the parcel and immediately I can see that there simply is not 2.5l volume in the package. Now I'm really ticked off. Get home and place the entire contents into a measuring container. It measures 1.8l at best. Now that is circa a 28% undersupply in the stated product volume. Simply unacceptable, I will concede that if I was an American that I would battle to judge 2.5L at a glance. I think these are probably sourced from China and that the Chinese supply company have slowly reduced the volume over time. This is my experience in my limited trade with the Chinese.

I have made representation to the supplier and am waiting for their response.

The supplier must make good on their 2.5l. Now I have to wait a probably a further two months to get the balance and I refuse to pay the shipping, I will have to pay the customs duties and VAT again.
Supplier has rejected shipping the balance due to cost, the price did not include shipping, supplier has refunded the full value of the goods. I might be able to ship in the shortfall for that. I suppose I could not ask for more than that from the supplier.
One too many wasted sunsets, one too many for the road.
Setsumi
Distiller
Posts: 1371
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:23 pm
Location: Central South Africa

Re: Marble size for a column

Post by Setsumi »

Andrew_90 wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:04 am
Andrew_90 wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 3:36 am Update.

My column has a volume of 2.1 liters. So after some research I located some Raschig Ring's on an online distilling site in the U.S. The package is marked 2.5L and the supporting data claims 2.5L. I order and for no fault of the supplier the package takes a frustratingly long time to reach me. Shipped on the 25/03/2021 and I was able to collect on the 28/05/2021. The parcel spends 6 weeks in our totally inefficient Customs Department.

Anyways, the lady behind the counter produces the parcel and immediately I can see that there simply is not 2.5l volume in the package. Now I'm really ticked off. Get home and place the entire contents into a measuring container. It measures 1.8l at best. Now that is circa a 28% undersupply in the stated product volume. Simply unacceptable, I will concede that if I was an American that I would battle to judge 2.5L at a glance. I think these are probably sourced from China and that the Chinese supply company have slowly reduced the volume over time. This is my experience in my limited trade with the Chinese.

I have made representation to the supplier and am waiting for their response.

The supplier must make good on their 2.5l. Now I have to wait a probably a further two months to get the balance and I refuse to pay the shipping, I will have to pay the customs duties and VAT again.
Supplier has rejected shipping the balance due to cost, the price did not include shipping, supplier has refunded the full value of the goods. I might be able to ship in the shortfall for that. I suppose I could not ask for more than that from the supplier.
glad you got your outlay back. now if i were in your shoes, i would make the lost volume up with stailess steel scrubber on top. just mind that you get stainless steel. in RSA it is mostly 3M scotch bright... but i have said that too many times... alternative is to get some copper mesh, (look at sites like &distilique and &brewandstill in RSA) it will be at premium but maybey cheaper and although i believe a single medium works better your offset volume would not bother much... again research first.... {when you are done with neutral build a plater/flute}
My first flute
My press
My twins
My controller
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?
Andrew_90
Rumrunner
Posts: 613
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:24 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Re: Marble size for a column

Post by Andrew_90 »

Yeah was thinking the same, the column is in two pieces. At the base of each put in a roll of copper mesh to stop the beads from falling out of the tube.
One too many wasted sunsets, one too many for the road.
User avatar
Steve Broady
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1050
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2022 9:52 am
Location: NC Piedmont

Re: Marble size for a column

Post by Steve Broady »

StillerBoy wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:32 am Without knowledge of the column size they will be used in, and summing that it's a 2", the 16mm one will be to large and the 12mm one are on the large size from an efficiency point..

The 8 - 10mm size are a better choice.. and the 7 - 8mm are the size best suited for maximum reflux efficiency.

Mars
I realize this is an old thread, but my question is directly related to this topic. I have a lot of 3/8” (9.5mm) glass marbles, but not enough to fill a 2”x 48” column. I could either buy more of the same, or make up the difference with larger marbles. Are the smaller marbles more efficient? Or, would a mixture of sizes and the resulting lower packing density be better for increased vapor flow?
Learn from the past, live in the present, change the future.
Mad Mariner
Novice
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2024 11:10 pm
Location: S African coast

Re: Marble size for a column

Post by Mad Mariner »

Smaller marbles perform better in a 2 inch column, if you have to fill up the rest of the space with larger marbles keep the larger ones at the bottom of the column
drmiller100
Rumrunner
Posts: 679
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Marble size for a column

Post by drmiller100 »

12 to 13 mm marbles work well in 2 inch, 3 inch, and 4 inch.


You can run all at maximum efficiency at one meter or 36 inches tall.
I would not recommend smaller in a 2 inch column.
Now I know how you claim azeo so easy, it's based on a meat thermometer. :lol:
drmiller100
Rumrunner
Posts: 679
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Marble size for a column

Post by drmiller100 »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 6:16 am Isnt it funny how things go around , back when I was a Newb people where saying Raschig Ring's where not that great, nor were glass marbles......before that it was broken windscreen glass, after rings and marbles copper mesh became all the rage.
Personally Ive always used copper mesh and never had a problem with it.
Not going to comment on what might best, seems to be too many opinions and Ive only tried one.
I will happily stick with what I'm using though.
I know this is an old post.
The Charles 803 run in the 70s used marbles.

It all works.
Now I know how you claim azeo so easy, it's based on a meat thermometer. :lol:
User avatar
acfixer69
Global moderator
Posts: 4826
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:34 pm
Location: CT USA

Re: Marble size for a column

Post by acfixer69 »

drmiller100 wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2024 5:54 pm
Saltbush Bill wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 6:16 am Isnt it funny how things go around , back when I was a Newb people where saying Raschig Ring's where not that great, nor were glass marbles......before that it was broken windscreen glass, after rings and marbles copper mesh became all the rage.
Personally Ive always used copper mesh and never had a problem with it.
Not going to comment on what might best, seems to be too many opinions and Ive only tried one.
I will happily stick with what I'm using though.
I know this is an old post.
The Charles 803 run in the 70s used marbles.

It all works.
Note, that was a for fuel still. They all do something.
Post Reply