Condensers in parallel or series
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- Rumrunner
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Condensers in parallel or series
I have trawled dozens of threads on this topic but still am a little unclear.
As a newb to a CCVM I was wondering if a simple series waterflow would be easier to manage for the first couple of runs, or should I bite the bullet and plumb for independent flows. Opinions seem to vary widely on this matter. Series is more convenient and neater but one would not want to compromise control.
As a newb to a CCVM I was wondering if a simple series waterflow would be easier to manage for the first couple of runs, or should I bite the bullet and plumb for independent flows. Opinions seem to vary widely on this matter. Series is more convenient and neater but one would not want to compromise control.
One too many wasted sunsets, one too many for the road.
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- Master of Distillation
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Re: Condensers in parallel or series
Independent flows. Your RC should have a consistent pressure, flow and input temp that is independent of your PC.
To get the most out of fractioning you will settle on a reflux ratio that works for your needs and that will remain consistent throughout most of the run. If the flow changes to your RC, that ratio will change and will mess with your fractioning. On a CCVM, you would then need to adjust the position of your RC to get back to that desired ratio. So having a separate flow for your PC will allow you to make proper adjustments to it without impacting your RC and your reflux ratio.
Otis
To get the most out of fractioning you will settle on a reflux ratio that works for your needs and that will remain consistent throughout most of the run. If the flow changes to your RC, that ratio will change and will mess with your fractioning. On a CCVM, you would then need to adjust the position of your RC to get back to that desired ratio. So having a separate flow for your PC will allow you to make proper adjustments to it without impacting your RC and your reflux ratio.
Otis
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- Yummyrum
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Re: Condensers in parallel or series
I think that it will be just fine to run in series . I have run my VM and LM that way for years . I don’t think that it would be any different on CCVM because…..
In most cases you will be making a Neutral so your reflux ratio is somewhere between 10:1 and 20:1
Say you have a 2kW element , the RC is dealing with around 1800- 1900w of power whereas the PC only has to see around 100-200w .
So the water that exits the PC is barely warmed meaning that the RC is getting pretty much the same temp water entering it as if it was connected in Parallel .
Having said that , I run my VM Plated still in series too and there is no drama .
So long as my coolant supply is a constant temp ,in reality once it starts producing , all I am worried about is initial tweaking to get takeoff rate I want and it just stays there doing its VM thing .
However , if you are running with a low reflux ratio say in the order of 2:1 - 3:1 chasing a flavoured product then there would start to be more interaction between the two as the PC exit water would be warmer .
In most cases you will be making a Neutral so your reflux ratio is somewhere between 10:1 and 20:1
Say you have a 2kW element , the RC is dealing with around 1800- 1900w of power whereas the PC only has to see around 100-200w .
So the water that exits the PC is barely warmed meaning that the RC is getting pretty much the same temp water entering it as if it was connected in Parallel .
Having said that , I run my VM Plated still in series too and there is no drama .
So long as my coolant supply is a constant temp ,in reality once it starts producing , all I am worried about is initial tweaking to get takeoff rate I want and it just stays there doing its VM thing .
However , if you are running with a low reflux ratio say in the order of 2:1 - 3:1 chasing a flavoured product then there would start to be more interaction between the two as the PC exit water would be warmer .
My recommended goto .
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ion_Theory
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ion_Theory
Re: Condensers in parallel or series
I've just started using a CCVM, mine is plumbed with the reflux supply teed off the main line with a 1/4 turn ball valve, this is fairly close to the pump output. My liebig then comes off the other branch of the tee and I control that with a needle valve. I have separate return lines as the liebig uses very little water and I figured the return water from the reflux may have enough pressure to block my liebig flow if both return lines joined before returning to my tank (if that makes sense)
This system everything seemed pretty stable in terms of temps and flow
Having the ball valve allows me to run as a pot without to much fiddling as well
This system everything seemed pretty stable in terms of temps and flow
Having the ball valve allows me to run as a pot without to much fiddling as well
" you can pick your nose and you can pick your friends; but you can't always wipe your friends off on your saddle" sage advice from Kinky Friedman
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- Rumrunner
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Re: Condensers in parallel or series
RC = Reflux coil
PC = ?
PC = ?
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- Yummyrum
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Re: Condensers in parallel or series
PC =Product condenser , the one that condenses the stuff coming out of the Tee in your case .
Incidentally RC =Reflux Condenser …. Although in many cases it is a coil .
Incidentally RC =Reflux Condenser …. Although in many cases it is a coil .
My recommended goto .
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ion_Theory
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ion_Theory
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- Rumrunner
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Re: Condensers in parallel or series
I knew it was my liebig but could not correlate the two. Thanks.
One too many wasted sunsets, one too many for the road.
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- Distiller
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Re: Condensers in parallel or series
I run the condensers on my CCVM in series. Your method may vary if you are trying to conserve water or have issues in fluctuations in the water supply. I use recirculated water from a large pond/ pool.
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50L Beer keg boiler, 2200W element
Modular 2" Pot Still
opinions are free and everybody has them, experience costs you time
50L Beer keg boiler, 2200W element
Modular 2" Pot Still
opinions are free and everybody has them, experience costs you time
- Saltbush Bill
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Re: Condensers in parallel or series
Most things you read about having independent control over water flow to condencers relates to plated columns....not packed columns.
Having said that it could still come in handy at times to have separate control of the two condensers.
Having said that it could still come in handy at times to have separate control of the two condensers.
Re: Condensers in parallel or series
Thing is, if you're running a bony PC, running in series can be problematic.
You'll want the PC to not at all be affected by any adjustments made to the RC.
If your PC is too boney and you adjust your RC to achieve and hold (hi) proof, you may find the finished distillate to be quite hot to the touch. Perhaps even too hot to touch. As in air born vapor hot.
On the otherhand, if the distillate is at a more optimal discharge temperature, you may find the RC incapable of holding proof.
This is why I always say, (within reason) your PC can never be too big. Not to mention that more surface area usually helps mitigate the chiller inadequacies many hobbyists experience.
You'll want the PC to not at all be affected by any adjustments made to the RC.
If your PC is too boney and you adjust your RC to achieve and hold (hi) proof, you may find the finished distillate to be quite hot to the touch. Perhaps even too hot to touch. As in air born vapor hot.
On the otherhand, if the distillate is at a more optimal discharge temperature, you may find the RC incapable of holding proof.
This is why I always say, (within reason) your PC can never be too big. Not to mention that more surface area usually helps mitigate the chiller inadequacies many hobbyists experience.
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
Re: Condensers in parallel or series
I have a packed column and like having independent controller to PC and RC.
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- Rumrunner
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Re: Condensers in parallel or series
Independent it is then. I have spent so much time on effort on the still that to not go that extra mile would be silly.
My concern was that any change in volume of either the PC or RC would affect the other, and possibly adversely.
My concern was that any change in volume of either the PC or RC would affect the other, and possibly adversely.
One too many wasted sunsets, one too many for the road.
- Saltbush Bill
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Re: Condensers in parallel or series
It can , depending on the still and how you are using it at that time, in the long run it will be better if both flows are controllable independently
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- Rumrunner
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Re: Condensers in parallel or series
Many thanks to all.
One too many wasted sunsets, one too many for the road.