Like the back side of the Moon / need your advice...

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Here we are just after the fermenter opening:

craters, calderas... lactobacter?

Well, I was about to make a hi-estery low-alcho (3-4% by Vol.) fermented cider. It has been fermenting since September till the present day (5 months is a great deal for me). I used 3 kinds of apples (including very sour + bittery and 1 kind of pears). No sugar!

The scurf was facile only and very easy to remove. Then just filtered it through the gauze in the funnel.

Taste and flavor — both clean, no problem (not acetobacter). I'd say more — very mild taste and interesting balanced aroma. Good transparency, strow in color. About 1.05sg (low fermentation?)...

Well, I've just made 2x0.5l (with fructose to carbonize) and 1l as alco-fortified (up to 15%, with small oak cubes inside of the jar). And I have no idea what they will turn into.

So, the rest 7.5l are taking part in a sad stripping run. We are close to its finish and it looks like there were 2% of all spirits only...

I washed my fermenter well, including iodine water in Sept. Maybe kids had their noses in? Or it's just a bad idea to get lo-alco fermented cider, uh?

Thanks to all in advance.

[kiwi Bruce]

I believe you have a "candida albican" infection. It's a wild yeast that is leaves a green apple taste in homebrewed beer, not pleasent,...however in a cider it shouldn't be a problem. How did it get in your cider? Well, Candida is a common human yeast, it can form a white film on the tongue. It can get into a wort or a wash from a siphon hose, if you start the siphon with your mouth. It also produces alcohol and some "funky" esters...but these may not be bad, so let your taste buds be your guide.

[cede]

For long fermenting I always have it in a glass carboy with an airlock filled with vodka
And low ABV is never let to rest that long, unless I want a funky thing.

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Thank you guys!

I believe you have a "candida albican" infection.

OK, I'll corect my own beliefs to yours then

It's a wild yeast that is leaves a green apple taste in homebrewed beer, not pleasent,...however in a cider it shouldn't be a problem.

It should not, as both me and my wife are still alive. On a par we got abt. 200ml per 160kg orally

Well, Candida is a common human yeast, it can form a white film on the tongue. It can get into a wort or a wash from a siphon hose, if you start the siphon with your mouth.

Never sucked it up when was making beers or wines or anything else that couldn't be in no time distilled.
And I didn't rack it after a month or two. Just left it alone this time.
I guess it was on some squeezer or utensil parts... I never heat fresh juices prior to fermenting them.

It also produces alcohol and some "funky" esters...but these may not be bad, so let your taste buds be your guide.

Not bad at all, the low wines are smashing. But I got only 450ml of 30%AbV in low wines so, it was only 1.8% alco in 7.5l of my fermented cider. And its 1.05 final gravity makes me thinking of the troubled fermentation. Due to a higher acidity (pH3.2 as I can remember) and/or the competition of the strains. What's your mind on it, KB?

For long fermenting I always have it in a glass carboy with an airlock filled with vodka

It was airlocked with 40% heads, of course.
Glass carboy sounds better than plasic in terms of desinfection, yeah. My next time with cider I'll keep it in my mind. Leaving plastic vessels for quick malt things etc.

And low ABV is never let to rest that long, unless I want a funky thing.

OK, how about 1 month for 1.1sg at start? Just for drinking "as is".

[Shine0n]

I too left fresh squeezed cider in plastic and used wild yeast for 4 months, it turned out not so nice and had a strong chemical smell and taste. Also had what looked like a pellicle of lacto.

As a cider right after fermentation it was dry as a bone in a week but I left it to clear and got busy with work so I distilled it in January and it still had the chemical smell and taste.
I retrieved 6 quarts from 15 gallons and never checked the abv because of the smells/taste.

I can assume my sanitary was sub part at best and I used a hydraulic press to press with wood plates. I could've done more to prevent this I'm sure but I had no intentions of leaving it that long but life got in the way so it tis what it tis.

The OG 1.045 and fg .995

Sorry to hear the bad luck, hope for the best next season for both of us

Shine0n

[der wo]

It's impossible to determine thetype of bacteria from the look of the pellicle. The low abv and the high FG sounds like a vinegar infection. But if you don't smell it, I am probably wrong. If it smells nice, probably it's a lactic infection. Lactic acid smells good in opposite to most other bacterial infection produced acids.
Did you pitch yeast or did you try a wild fermentation? with airlock? Did you notice a healthy fermentation at the beginning? 5 months at so low abv is risky with unboiled raw materials. You should monitor it regularily (also the SG, because when it starts to rise, you should stop it).

[VLAGAVULVIN]

I too left fresh squeezed cider in plastic and used wild yeast for 4 months, it turned out not so nice and had a strong chemical smell and taste. Also had what looked like a pellicle of lacto.

Yes for pellicle, no for chemicals. I'm not at home now to check the plastic label but my 10l-tank is for food products.

Sorry to hear the bad luck, hope for the best next season for both of us

I would say the luck was bad only in terms of ethanol output. Thanks for your wishes and good luck in the season-18!

It's impossible to determine thetype of bacteria from the look of the pellicle. The low abv and the high FG sounds like a vinegar infection. But if you don't smell it, I am probably wrong. If it smells nice, probably it's a lactic infection. Lactic acid smells good in opposite to most other bacterial infection produced acids.

Not vinegar in tank, I am deadly sure. But I may get it now in my lo-alco 2x0,5l bottles. Still there is some oxigen between lid and cider.

I had made some small malt and beer projects in that tank. The plastic inside seems loosy: I would rinse not good the previous lacto outta there… Well, the next time it is worth using glass for wines-like technologies...

Did you pitch yeast or did you try a wild fermentation? with airlock?

Uh-huh…

modest wine strain / same pack worked well later with my other things

with evil aldehyde heads inside ;)

Did you notice a healthy fermentation at the beginning? 5 months at so low abv is risky with unboiled raw materials.

It was OK for 20-30days. Then it switched to "2 days bubbling and 2 days quiet".

You should monitor it regularily (also the SG, because when it starts to rise, you should stop it).

Hi-acidity at start was the reason not to put my nose and dirty nails in it
But thanks for your advices, DW!

[Reverend Newer]

Wow, I've had a Candida albicans infection (inside my body) most of my life, I've never heard of it infecting a beer but it makes sense.

There are many people that believe Candida Albicans is actually cancer once it goes "systemic" in the human body. The way I see it, anybody that has had "floaties" in their vision probably has a Candida albicans issue health-wise.

Even further on this subject, I was drinking some "rough shine" from a first run on a potstill sugarhead, that had used a wash from stressed yeast. Well I am not positive how it happened, but somehow I believe the sulfides in the shine killed off a large amount of my Candida infection as I had a huge Herxheimer reaction even though I'd been on a Candida cleanse for a couple months beforehand. It sort of makes sense the sulfides would kill off Candida (cancer?) because sulfur is known to kill fungus in organic gardening.

Strange that folks with Lyme disease end up fighting for their life against Candida when it takes over.

Sorry to go off subject, but I've researched Candida albicans like few others, I was shocked to see it mentioned here. It is a plague on the human race feeding off poor diet, HFCS and overuse of antibiotics among other things. Stay healthy!


Edit: on a side note, human Candida albicans infections have been linked as a possible cause of alcoholism.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Not sure what you got there but many of us see it, commonly referred to as “lacto” around here.
Some even encourage it.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =4&t=63689" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[VLAGAVULVIN]

but somehow I believe the sulfides in the shine killed off a large amount of my Candida infection

Sulphides themselves are not OK. Well, boiling kills fungus like Candida. But already it "pissed" some metabolites into the wort. Some of them may be toxic. We "cook" them to destruct and some new chemical compounds are created, probably more crazy than precursors. Just remember the aspergillus and its aflotoxin that cannot be destructured even in hi-temp. The best way to be safe is thinking of what may drop into the wort since its very beginning...

This time my fail brought me some fun. But once I had the situation the lactobacter settled the wort prior to yeast did it. I added "well-started" liquid yeast on and on but I could do finally nothing but pouring my wort away.

So, let's take care and be safe!

Some even encourage it.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =4&t=63689" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Me too, but for normally for barley malts, not apples and peers!

lactic leaven

I was adding smth. like that after 48hrs yeast fermentation to get mild creamy aromas...