Apple Cider

[slowsteam]

Since I'm just learning I thought I would ask.

here is what I have, the Apple Juice liquid is unsweetened and the frozen is sweetened with Acesulfame potassium, sucralose.

I have a 1 gallon jug to use for the primary fermenter some 1118 yeast, yeast nutrient and tannin.

the way I would go is with 2 pounds of sugar half pack yeast, 2 tea spoons nutrient, pinch of tannin.
for the apple I would heat the bottled juice and frozen juice together with the sugar, nutrient and tannin
after it cooled below 90 deg F and pitch the yeast mix well incorporating lots of air seal with bubbler.

wait until primary fermentation is over re-rack seal when the fermenting slowed cap seal tight let sit
2 to 3 days pasteurize at 160 for 10-15.

any input will be appreciated as I'm just learning.

[cayars]

You won't like this.

Acesulfame potassium & sucralose are artificial sweeteners that likely will not ferment.
With apple you don't want to add sugar as you will quickly loose the apple flavor.
EC-1118 is the WRONG yeast to use for apple as it strips delicate flavors.

I'd ditch the tannin for apple cider and cut back the nutrients you plan to use to 1/2 teaspoon per gallon. The label probably say 1. to 1.5 tsp per gallon but they are selling you product. 1/2 tsp is normally plenty.

If it were me I'd mix up the apple JUICE you have and drink it, then go back to the store and pick up fresh APPLE CIDER in the gallon containers usually near the milk. While at the grocery store pick up a small 4oz jar or packet of bread yeast. Add 2.5 grams or 1/3 packet for a 1 gallon batch.

Don't add sugar or anything beside 1/2 teaspoon of nutrient and yeast.

You will find a 1 gallon container is hard to work with. You don't end up getting much useful product from them as you will have settlement and need to leave a bit of fluid over the trub when racking. Each racking leaves you a bit less. You also can't put a gallon of fluid in them as you need some head space while fermenting. So you can only fill them 3/4 to 7/8 full. Start with less in the jar and see how active the ferment is. Then top off with a bit more cider if you have adequate head space.

Don't get me wrong, 1 gallon is fine for playing or experimenting but not usually practical for doing real batches. For wines/cider/meads it works but not if you plan to distill as you obviously have no where near enough product to distill.

[cranky]

I mostly agree with cayars except on this part

While at the grocery store pick up a small 4oz jar or packet of bread yeast.

In my opinion never, ever, ever ever use bread yeast on fruit! 1118 is fine to learn on, and a hell of a lot better than some nasty bread yeast, but it isn't the best for cider. Ale yeasts or cider yeast would be best, D-47 or 1122 are good too, although I think cayars disagrees with me on 1122.

I'm unfamiliar with Cal-Maid juice and don't know if you are in the US or somewhere else but understand getting fresh cider may be difficult...Hell I live in the state that produces most of the apples in the US and can't pick up fresh cider at my local grocery store. If you are in the US and can't get fresh cider go for Tree top cider or 3 tree blend, or alternatively pretty much anything they produce. If you are outside the US find something with no preservative or fake crap and you should be fine and try to avoid Chinese juice.

I'm not a fan of artificial sweeteners so don't really have any input about that because I won't use them. I do have input about boosting the alcohol lever by using sugar, It will remove flavor.

[Yonder]

Gotta agree, don’t mess with an artificial sweetener and bread yeast is a poor choice for fruit. When I do melomels its 71 or 47, both of which enhance the fruit essence of your product. Go with a natural juice or a purée from an HBS.

[cayars]

I mostly agree with cayars except on this part

While at the grocery store pick up a small 4oz jar or packet of bread yeast.

In my opinion never, ever, ever ever use bread yeast on fruit! 1118 is fine to learn on, and a hell of a lot better than some nasty bread yeast, but it isn't the best for cider. Ale yeasts or cider yeast would be best, D-47 or 1122 are good too, although I think cayars disagrees with me on 1122.

Yes, on second thought, I agree with you, bread yeast was bad advise for yeast selection. My initial thought was to be able to pickup something quickly at the grocery store to get going. But on second thought I agree with you the 1118 already on hand would be much better. While it may strip a bit of flavor compared to other yeasts it won't add it's own flavors that bread yeast might. So forget bread yeast and go with the EC-1118 unless you don't mind ordering some other yeast.

I'd use 71B-1122 over bread yeast or 1118 if I had it already, but it wouldn't be my first choice on a big batch of cider.
This web page "Best Hard Cider Yeast" covers many popular yeasts for cider and is a great resource.
https://diyhardcider.com/hard-cider-yeast/
Sort of covers the best of each category of yeast but doesn't mention a popular choice like D-47 which is great).

On that page you will see temperature ranges mentioned that the different yeast prefer. Try to pick a yeast that matches as best possible the room temperature you will ferment in for small batches.

Thanks Cranky for catching that.

PS I've read from a master cider maker that 65-70% of the quality is in the initial juice, 25% is in your process, 5-10% is in the yeast. Choose a proven cider-yeast, but don't stress about it.

[The Baker]

I have fermented fruit using just the natural yeast that is on the skins.
I have the idea that that yeast is developed by natural selection and should be ideal for its purpose.

Geoff

[stillanoob]

PS I've read from a master cider maker that 65-70% of the quality is in the initial juice, 25% is in your process, 5-10% is in the yeast. Choose a proven cider-yeast, but don't stress about it.

I sure wouldn't call myself a master cider maker but I have made hundreds and hundreds of gallons, usually 40-50 a year. I completely agree with the above. In the 25% that is process I would say that proper sanitation of your equipment is number one, followed by having a raging yeast starter that has had a least a week to get rolling. I do a long slow ferment because my cider house is generally unheated and the carboys sit on the floor. I do a primary ferment for a week, then rack off to glass.

While the mix of apples makes a huge difference in taste, you can make decent cider out of almost any variety.t is the quality that counts. Some of them, like Golden Delicious or Gravenstein will get so dry and have almost no apple flavor left after a few months. It just tastes like a generic wine, so swill it while young. Varieties that have a lot of flavor near the skin (nibble little bits of skin and an 1/8" or so of fruit) have the flavors that will persist when the cider is dry. So a mix of sugar apples like the Golden or Grav for your base then apples like Jonathan, Breaburn or any little tart red apples you can get your hands on makes what I like to drink.

How all of this relates to distilling, I don't know. I'll be running my first batch pretty soon and can't wait to see how it turns out.

[cayars]

While the mix of apples makes a huge difference in taste, you can make decent cider out of almost any variety.t is the quality that counts. Some of them, like Golden Delicious or Gravenstein will get so dry and have almost no apple flavor left after a few months.

I'm curious if you have a preference to the type of apple you prefer or mix of apples?

I live in sourthern New Jersey where a lot of apples are grown. I have access to the following types of apples at my favorite local orchard:
Empire, Fuji, Golden Delicious
Mutsu, Jonagold, Red Delicious
Grimes Golden, Stayman Winesap, Gala

What I've found best so far are Stayman Winesap, Jonagold, Gala
OK are Fuji, Golden Delicious, Red Delicious

Curious to know how your list of apples would match up or if you have access to other varieties you like.

[stillanoob]

I'm not familiar with all of those varieties. I live where we don't get enough chill hours to grow many types of apples.

Of what you have listed that I know, I would use 1/2 to 3/4 Golden or Jonagold for primary sugar content. I have a Jonagold but only one tree and I always use it. It has most of the sugar of the Golden but some tart from the Jonathan. Great apple. I am familiar with the Winesap and that is a very good apple for the flavor component. If you do the nibble test you can tell which are good for long term flavor. If you can find apples that are really tannic and almost dry your mouth out with the nibble test those are fantastic for long term flavor.

My recipe is usually about 1/2 - 2/3 golden and gravenstein, 1/4 to 1/3 Jonathan and then these small tannnic red apples I get from an abandoned house near me. If anybody ever buys that place I'm gonna be bummed, I don't know what they are but they are awesome for cider.

[cayars]

If you can find apples that are really tannic and almost dry your mouth out with the nibble test those are fantastic for long term flavor.

Great info. I never heard the quote above befor,e but will be keeping this in mind for next years apple season.

[Farside]

I'm always on the lookout for those. If I can't find them then I'll use a small quantity of the big red crab apples. You can easily go overboard with them, as I have in the past. Best not to go much past 5%