What is “Good” rum?

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der wo
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by der wo »

kiwi Bruce wrote:So the Rum industry could still use grape syrup/sherry syrup, but not the scotch industry. So I could take a cheap shi#y sherry, boil it down in a lab still/Bain Marie, toss the distillate into the faints and use the syrup in whisky and Rum...another one of those esoteric techniques we're only finding out about now...der wo that's brilliant !
But to get something like 50g/l sugar, adding Sherry is not enough. Even if you proof a 80% new make down to 40% with sherry. And this wouldn't taste like Rum anymore. Same with paxarette. This alone produces not enough sweetnes 50g/l or will totally overpower the Rum flavor.
Perhaps there is a legal way to use paxarette in Scotch Whisky: Use paxarette to rejuvinate a Sherry barrel. Then "fast age" Sherry in it, then use the emptied (or better not complete emptied) barrel for Scotch.

Edit: Here I wrote a thread about how the Sherry Whisky Cask industry works today:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=70372
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by GCB3 »

The third nuking is cooled and opened. It isn’t really any darker than the second run. Overall, it is as dark or very slightly darker than the 5 yr old Flor de Cana on my bar. It definitely has a redder tint than that.
The nose is about the same as Phase 2, maybe ever so slightly improved, but, not sure I could pick them apart in a blind test. The flavor is also about the same with the exception of that floral flavor I mentioned after Phase 2, seems slightly enhanced. I can’t put my finger on what it is, it’s just definitely there, not a common rum flavor, but, also not totally objectionable.
All in all, I’d say it’s much better than the 3 week old, but, to me it’s not the Second Coming. In fairness to the author of the original post, I did not use charred or toasted wood. I probably should do another test using that to more closely match his experiment.

I have a 40% ABV qt. sample from this same batch that is aging on a mixture of the JD charred barrel pieces and some applewood. I may throw that in the MW just for kicks. I may also nuke a gallon of this run and then put it back on new, toasted or charred oak and let it sit 6-12months for a comparison to the rest that is “naturally” aging. (And granted, being a rookie, I may have just made some crappy rum that isn’t salvageable! :lol: :lol: :lol: )
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by GCB3 »

der wo,
The articles you attached are very interesting and further rocked my world. So, I went to the cabinet tonight and grabbed the Appleton 12, one of the few commercial rums I own that doesn’t set off alarm bells and red lights flashing from the durhum article author. It’s very dry and much different from what I normally drink. It’s sobbering when your illusions are revealed to you! I can always claim rookie ignorance, but, that gets exhausted with time, and I temporarily though I was starting to understand. Back to the books for this young lad!

You are very generous with your time and knowledge which makes you a gentleman and a scholar. Thank you for helping me start to understand this wonderful world of rum.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by captainshooch »

Infusing on rum after making a decent white is another option

http://pinkymixology.blogspot.com/search/label/Pitorro" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Seems site is having issues ATM.

Save it and check it out later on.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by GCB3 »

The third Phase nuking of the 40 % ABV sample on JD charred barrel chips is back. I would continue to say that nuking softens some of the sharp edges of freshly run rum and enriches the color. I not convinced that I like the resulting flavor.
The first sample was nuked on uncaharred or toasted apple wood. Just new applewood chips out of the bag. This sample had JD charred barrel chips in it. I now understand why some of the OP responders said it made their whiskey taste like JD. The smoke flavor seemed to be accentuated by the MW. I’m not a big fan of heavy smoke in my scotch, or a fan of mild smoke on my whiskey. I really don’t want it in my rum. May try this again, but, I need to do some experimenting with woods.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

I'm glad that you did the Nuke and posted the results.

I did the Nuke thing the first couple times, and I kinda saw what the purpose was ; If ya just didn't want to drink white.

After my first 6 month of the same came down out of the attic, I never touched the microwave again. I have more patience than I do desire to ruin ROI. I make liquor so I can drink the best there is. Why waste it in the microwave.

Never been a fan of the flavor, either.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by Max_Vino »

der wo
Thank you for the links.

"The debate is about the transparency of these additions, and the honesty of producers who do not follow the same rules as others. And beyond, it is question of legality, as these products do not meet the definition of rum as a spirit (Regulation (EC) No 110/2008)."

Well what do you expect from the sons and daughters of Pirates, slave owners, miscreants and other wayfaring souls who were hand selected by some of the finest judges in Europe ?

It’s not just additives, the whole industry is rife with deception. As a marketing gimmick many distilleries claim to pot distill their rum. The myth surrounding this is that only through pot distilling in copper stills can you get the true rum flavors. Most Rum distilleries use either a column, continuous or adams still, yet many distilleries claim pot distilling in their advertising. My favorite example is Turkey Shores Pot still, which looks like a old 17th century version of a Caribbean still, collecting distillate in a old barrel.….Hidden inside are 4 plates and inside the receiving barrel is a retort…making this a Adams/column still hybrid. (Ian Smileys book "Distillers guide to Rum”)

It doesn’t end there…Take labeling for example, Flor de Cana has “Slow aged” on the label and then a big “7”. Not 7 years, just 7. Another Rum I noticed had 15 in big numbers on the label, After further reading it’s a blend of 15 rums ! Then there is the “Solera” aging, what does that mean ? Average age of all the barrels ? The oldest Barrel ? or some number they pulled out nowhere ?

So tell me, in the honest category, do you have one that stands out ?
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by Antler24 »

Badmotivator wrote:I can offer some personal experience here. A simple molasses and brown sugar wash, aged in one of my barrels made with new, toasted, charred white oak, aged for nearly two years now, has loads of caramel, vanilla, butterscotch, and mellow rumminess. The “raw spirit” character is 90% gone, almost hard to find among the other flavors and aromas. I’m looking forward to tasting it again in a couple more years. :)

I’d recommend you start simple. Ferment some molasses, distill it, exclude any particularly nasty jars, put it in a really high-quality barrel, and walk away. I don’t know if you’ll hit all of your marks, but you will certainly enjoy what comes out of it if you wait long enough.

After you’ve put that first batch away, make a small adjustment and do it again. Maybe you saved some dunder to start a muck pit with, hey? Maybe you got some panela? Maybe you got a different barrel? Maybe you got a plated column and you can try a one-and-done? Be fearless! You can’t go wrong if your distillate is decent, your aging technique is good (probably the most important element for you), and you wait long enough.

Hope that helps.
I have to second this. I've made a few batches of Buccaneer Bob's rum recipe found here and found it a little "rough" but loads of molasses flavour. Even aged 4-6 months with 1 toasted and charred oak stick per gallon it was still pretty rough and a little overwhelming with the molasses flavour. Fast forward a year and it's really showing some promise now. I'm not a big rum guy so I'm hoping it'll age for at least another year before I bottle it.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by der wo »

Max_Vino wrote:It’s not just additives, the whole industry is rife with deception. As a marketing gimmick many distilleries claim to pot distill their rum. The myth surrounding this is that only through pot distilling in copper stills can you get the true rum flavors. Most Rum distilleries use either a column, continuous or adams still, yet many distilleries claim pot distilling in their advertising. My favorite example is Turkey Shores Pot still, which looks like a old 17th century version of a Caribbean still, collecting distillate in a old barrel.….Hidden inside are 4 plates and inside the receiving barrel is a retort…making this a Adams/column still hybrid. (Ian Smileys book "Distillers guide to Rum”)

So tell me, in the honest category, do you have one that stands out ?
I would say an Adams still is a potstill. And the Turkey Shores potstill looks fine IMO. It depends on if and how much they reflux with the plates. What is the abv of hearts? This is the main question. There is no molasses Rum double distilled to 65%, diluted to 62% and put into a barrel. The taste is not fine enough this way. You have to distill it to 75% or more. In my opinion at least.

You mean a Rum I like and I think it's "honest"? Honest in your opinion or in mine. If an Adams still distillation to 80% is not honest, I can't help. And as long there are no strict rules, we never can be sure. Google the Templeton Rye scandal for example.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by The Baker »

Hi,
Some of you have mentioned an Adams still.
Do you have a link, a picture or an explanation?
I have never heard of that before and Google was not helpful.

Thanks.

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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by der wo »

An Adams still is a potstill with two thumpers. They call the thumpers "retorts". The retorts are filled with relative high abv "low wines" and "high wines" from previous runs. We would say "early tails" and "late tails". The tails are cut very early, so they have a very high abv. For example Appletons second retort is filled with 75%abv. This way it's possible to get more than 80%abv hearts in a potstill single run.

http://cocktailwonk.com/2016/04/worthy- ... ntury.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
In addition this one has a few plates over the last retort.

https://www.diffordsguide.com/producers ... d-appleton" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

https://inuakena.com/misc/a-visit-to-fo ... istillery/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by HDNB »

after making many of the tried and true here, i have only wound up with very strong molasses flavour, multuple distillations and tempered the flavour, but even after 4x through it was still too strong for me.
3 years on oak really helped. I'm sure it would satisfy the stoutest rum drinkers in the flavour department.

I'm just trying my own rum recipe, it has come out much lighter and actually quite smooth for a new make...not the usual sugar bite i've experienced in others and in UJSSM.

i screwed up in calculating the measurements and wound up with a too high gravity. thought it would burn up on re-entry, but happy accident instead.
here's what i did:

heated 100l of water to 105*
tossed in a multi vitamin
mixed in 20kg of white sugar
mixed in 1.5 gallons of food grade molass
mixed in 50g of baker's yeast
pitched 50g of bakers on top

took off like a rocket and fermented like a mofo for 4 weeks. finished at 1.004 (from somewhere wayyy up there) it was amazing to watch this thing produce so much for so long/ with no infection!

the first batch came off a bit thin but tasted good. the second strip has a noticeable molass musk about it. the third batch is quite rummy.
i got 60L at 50% and enough wash to top off the spirit run for extra spank.

i figger i'll have 40 litres of cask strength to fill a 10 gallon barrel after the spirit run.

the most interesting thing is how the flavour has grown with each strip. this is good and bad, since it seems it will make a "good" rum, but unfortunately...it's my whiskey still. :roll: I think i'll be doing some caustic cleaning in the near future.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by The Baker »

Thanks, der wo.
That is probably similar or the same as the one Harry did a diagram for. But he didn't call it that.

And I really appreciate your posts. Which is maybe strange to say because I don't understand most of them. But it is obvious you are advancing the knowledge of our craft and discussing with other knowledgeable people, and that results in improvements in practise that filter down to the rest of us.

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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by Max_Vino »

Adams still
Jean-Édouard Adam’s distillation device patented in 1805. This was the earliest use of what most people call a thumper or in the rum industry a retort. The interesting thing about this still is that if you move the horizontal thumpers into a vertical position and locate it directly over the boiler it starts to look very much like a plate still without reflux.

Cheers,
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by The Baker »

Thanks, Max

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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by der wo »

But the difference between those retorts and plates is, that the retorts are larger (and have more cooling capacity) and there is no way back to the boiler or from the second retort to the first. Yes, on the painting there are many extra pipes, also back to the boiler, but this is not typiyal for Rum Adams stills. The extra lines on Rum Adams stills are for charging and emptying the retorts and perhaps for skipping them for runs without retorts and perhaps for safety reasons.
Thanks Baker

Edit:
Here are great pictures:
http://rumaniacs.com/Notes_and_Categories" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
it's easy to google such pictures with the words Rum and retorts.
Not many extra pipes here.

Here a modern adaption from stilldragon:
https://www.stilldragon.org/discussion/ ... m-maker/p2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Many extra options.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by Max_Vino »

Mount Gay XO

While we are on this topic, last night I tried Mount Gay XO Rum. This is a great Rum and I recommend it. It was one of the few rums that I have tested that has no sugar detectable using the hydrometer method. I also did not detect any added vanilla. Their distillation techniques utilized Adams still as well as a column still.

I prefer to use the term “Adams Still” when the still is in the configuration outlined in his 1805 patent. I feel he should be given the credit for such a important innovation. Pot stills have been around for thousands of years going back to the Greeks and Arab explorers. There should be even more classifications for pot stills as modern Scottish pot stills work very differently from the older Alembics.

Here is a picture of Mount Gays Adam still..A work of art for sure.

Max
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by Shine0n »

My god I need one of those!!!
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by GCB3 »

Max_Vino wrote: It doesn’t end there…Take labeling for example, Flor de Cana has “Slow aged” on the label and then a big “7”. Not 7 years, just 7. Another Rum I noticed had 15 in big numbers on the label, After further reading it’s a blend of 15 rums ! Then there is the “Solera” aging, what does that mean ? Average age of all the barrels ? The oldest Barrel ? or some number they pulled out nowhere ?

So tell me, in the honest category, do you have one that stands out ?

Hey Max
Your comment caught my attention because Flor de Cana 5 has been my house, bar rum for about 10 yrs and I had just assumed it was a 5 yr old, pure rum. The whole purpose of starting this thread was my attempt to wrap my head around all the differing opinions of what makes a good rum verses what I thought was good. I naively thought what I believed to be good rum was “pure” unmanipulated rum as opposed to some of the spiced or sweetened products. der wo, with his vast knowledge and incredible ability to find information on the web, has put that notion to rest. It appears now that most of the “premium” rums I’ve been drawn to are often highly manipulated with sugars, vanilla, maple, and glycerine. I still like them, I just understand a little more now for going through this exercise. I hope it has been helpful to others.

After reading your comment, I looked at the half gallon on my bar and there it was. Damn, it does not say”aged” 5 years. So I went to their site and they list all of their products. They actually do state that the product aging corresponds to the number on the bottle. Now it’s entirely possible that I have fallen for some marketing slight of hand on their site, but, I was left with the belief that each is aged the number of years indicated on the bottle. But, they don’t mention any additives! :roll:
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by der wo »

They don't need to write additives on the label.

A few comments, which sound very plausible. You also find pics of Rums with obstructive age statements there:
quotes from several pages of: http://rumaniacs.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Pure Single Rum - 100% pot still rum from one distillery or estate
This is molasses-based rums from a single distillery/Estate, and distilled only from a pot still (“batch” distillation).
Examples of rums: Worthy Park, Hampden, Mount Gilboa, Port Mourant, Foursquare and Versailles.

In Jamaica, only Hampden and Worthy Park (2 distilleries on the 6 established in Jamaica) are Pure Single Rum; While Long Pond, Monymusk, Appleton Yarmouth also only use their pot still rum to blend with their column ones. Others, such as DDL, also use their pot stills (Port Mourant, Versailles) to blend with a more recent foray into single pot still rums in 2016 ;

It is not likely a mere coincidence that most rum found to contain sugar/additives is distilled in multi column plants. Devoid of flavour/and oils from the distillate, the producer seeks to add the flavour and body to the produced spirit.

In rum, mostly premium priced ones at that, it has become common place to use misleading age statements. Either the ‘age’ is qualified by the meaningless word ‘solera’ or worse an isolated number (without any attached meaning) is placed on the label. We suffered the ignominy of having a premium packaging with a such a ornamental number winning an award for “best package” at a recent rum show (and even a "best cork" award).

It is again no coincidence that these merely decorative numbers are often found on rums with added sugar. A misleading label is your first clue the producer intends to obfuscate the true age (and hence the true value) of the rum. The second clue is the added sugar.

The under appreciation of the value of tropical ageing has resulted in the absurdity of at least one producer moving their ageing warehouses to a much higher (and hence colder) latitude and therefore enjoying close Continental European evaporation (and maturation) rates. No surprise this producer employs ornamental numbers and added sugar. Obfuscation is the name of the game.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

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Max_Vino wrote:Adams still
Jean-Édouard Adam’s distillation device patented in 1805. This was the earliest use of what most people call a thumper or in the rum industry a retort. The interesting thing about this still is that if you move the horizontal thumpers into a vertical position and locate it directly over the boiler it starts to look very much like a plate still without reflux.
Cheers, Max
Point of order.
I recall reading that Adams attended a seminar where he saw Woulfe's apparatus demonstrated and wondered if the same apparatus couldn't be adapted to distillation and once he found it could be patented it as such meaning he patented an alternative use for an apparatus invented by one Peter Woulfe.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by Max_Vino »

A good article on topic "What is good rum"

http://thefatrumpirate.com/when-is-rum-not-a-rum" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow


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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Interesting link Max ..and some good points made by the Author.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

Yes, that is very good article. Thank you. I absolutely love this summer's rum selection of mine. Quality molasses wash, distilled twice, then put on oak for a year. Can't add anything to it that would make it any better.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by Buccaneer Bob »

I'm a little late to the party, but better late than never.

Reading through this thread, I think each guy who makes rum thinks his rum is "good" rum.

Some guys like their rum with lots of heads, not much tails, and heavily oaked so that it tastes more like bourbon.

Other guys embrace rum for what it is and want their rum to actually taste like rum (that's me, of course).

Some guys like their rum spiced.

Some guys like their rum with fruit flavors added.

Etc.

We each think our rum is "good" rum, and we are all right. It is.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by butterpants »

I'm a sugar whore. Please make my rum sweet. Such a nice break from dry oak suckins.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by GCB3 »

Bob, I think you hit the nail on the head and that is exactly why I created this post. While I haven’t found the magical answer to the question, this has been a fantastic learning experience for me and I hope for some others too. It has made me completely re-examine what I thought I knew about rum. There are so many knowledgeable folks here that have taken the time to explain the rum theories and back it up with links to research, I feel like I’ve been through a research project.
The great thing is that I’m now rethinking my approach to this great hobby and have a slightly clearer idea of where I want to go.
What is “Good” rum? It’s what you like!
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by fizzix »

Paradise Rum from Dubuque, Iowa (alternately with Honey Bear Bourbon) made for a better time during a miserable and rainy campout this past week.
The attachment mud camping.jpg is no longer available

Betwixt the rain and humidity, Paradise Island Bay Rum made an unusually bad camping experience tolerable.
It went well with a Saint Luis Rey cigar...
The attachment Paradise Rum2.jpg is no longer available
Paradise Island Bay boasts anise in its recipe, but all agreed there was a definite coconut tone, not licorice, to it.
The attachment Paradise Rum.jpg is no longer available
Here from their website http://www.paradisedistillery.com/about/ is what I call their Hookah Still:
mud camping.jpg
While Paradise Island Bay Rum was a treat, it is only available in Dubuque, Iowa. My brother (and camp buddy) was kind enough to gift it to me.
A little research proved $35 for 750ml. More importantly, though, is its wonderful anise/more so coconut hint flavor.
So maybe put the anise in your memory boxes for your next rum. I know I will. And sorry for the tease if Dubuque is not in your itinerary.
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by Max_Vino »

There are probably 20-30 liquors that contain anise. Absinthe and Drambuie come to mind. If you want to experiment try using Drambuie, it contains anise, honey and orange zest. I would start with 2 ml in a 70 ml sample and go from there to your taste.

Cheers,
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Re: What is “Good” rum?

Post by thecroweater »

Nice way to get a coconut hit in your rum is get a green nut the type you use for drinking coconut milk. Drill a hole in the top and tip out the nut water, leave it for a bit and tip it again . Then fill the nut with rum and leave for a few days before consuming :thumbup:
This with give you a different result than tempering with coconut water or water boiled with desiccated coconut but personally I think it's pretty good.
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