My Molasses Trials

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My Molasses Trials

Postby jog666 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:39 am

To make a long story short, I had a credit at the local feedmill & just so happened to have a bucket marked for 1gallon. 11.5 pounds per gallon @ $2.87. I can live with that.
Rather cool/cold day when I got it but by the time I got to messing with it inside, it had thinned out some.
molasses-2.jpg


I saved an extra gallon of UJSSM backset from my last strip. Ran it up to 150*-155*, dumped & stirred like hell for a while.
molasses-3.jpg

molasses-4.jpg



I have read several times here that trying to check SG is a waste of time for feed molasses but did it anyway to track how it pans out. Just a little off the scale at 1.160+
molasses-5.jpg


Gallon of water drops to 1.112. Second gallon drops to 1.086 for a total of 4 gallons.

Let it sit around for a couple hours while I had to do other things. Finally got around to pitching the yeast Dady since Im out of bakers yeast.


I know several of the recipes here say add a few other things but whats $3? If nothing else Ill add it to the chicken feed.
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Re: My Molasses Trials

Postby fizzix » Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:03 am

I'm wondering if your feedmill molasses would benefit from some tomato paste nutrient.
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Re: My Molasses Trials

Postby Expat » Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:10 am

fizzix wrote:I'm wondering if your feedmill molasses would benefit from some tomato paste nutrient.


I think you're correct Fizzix, I have been dwelling on nutrients also: I would suggest adding Epsom salt as from my experience that's the key missing element with molasses washes.

Jog,. You're correct about the hydrometer; values are distorted by all the unfermentables.
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Re: My Molasses Trials

Postby Tony1964 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:15 am

Hi Jogg

Yes I get incorrect readings on Brix measurements as well, Brix 28 and Brix 12 FG. I have a wash just finished
IMG_4006.jpg


You have to get yourself in the ball park by weight and volume. They are fairly long winded calculations but go something like this, I will put them in Litres and Kilo's.

1) weigh the molasses, 1 litre of mine weighs 1.4Kg and has a sugar content of 44.3%.
2) So, 44.3% of 1.4Kg is some 0.6202Kg or 620 grams of sugar.
3) lets say do the calculations on say a 25 litre ish wash which would say normally be around 5.5Kg of sugar.
4) If we need 5.5Kg of sugar and say go for 100% Molasses, adjust if you add brown sugar, but, 5.5 kg / 0.6202 = 8.868 litres of molasses.
5) Lets put that back to weight 8.868 litres of molasses in Kg is our 8.868 X 1.4 (1.4Kg is the weight per liter) so, that = 12.415Kg of molasses would give us similar to 5.5Kg of sugar.
6) Lets get to how much water we need, so we have the equivalent of 5.5Kg of sugar, sugar is generally accepted to convert 55% of its weight in to alcohol, so 1Kg of sugar gives you about 0.55 Litres of alcohol.
7) so, our 5.5Kg of sugars from the above would therefore convert to 5.5 X 55% = 3.025 Litres of Alcohol.
8) 1 Litre of pure alcohol weighs about 789 grams, its lighter than water see, so, in a 10% solution this equates to 0.9789, lets convert the litres to weight, 3.025 / 0.9789 = 3.09Kg of Alcohol.
9) ABV, so, again generally we want the Rum to ferment to a max of 10%, so if 3.09Kg is 10% of a volume, we need to know what the total volume is, so, 3.09 / 0.1 (if we wanted 12% we make this 0.12) so, 3.09 / 0.1 = 30.09 Kg
10) Lets take off the 8.868 litres from line 4 above from the 30.09 total and we have 22.04, as we are adding water, and water weighs 1Kg for 1 Litre at sea level, we need 22.04, lets call it 22 Litres for a 10% wash, and you have in the first lines above the approximate amount of molasses calcs as well, stick the above in a spreadsheet and you can adjust for any volume or % ABV wash.

I have pretty much used the above for Rum and granted this is only my 3rd, but, its worked for me, any obvious errors, well, it should get you in the region.

And yes molasses is short of nutrients, DAP and epsom salts would be useful.

Hope the above helps, note: edited the above to correct the relative viscosity of Alcohol at 10% dropping the water requirement by 2 Litres. the viscosity of pure alcohol is 789 grams per litre, 915 grams I used was a 40% Alcohol weight I had forgot to adjust in the above for 10% if that makes sense. Anyway once in a spread sheet it becomes easier.

Cheers

Tony
Last edited by Tony1964 on Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My Molasses Trials

Postby jog666 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:34 am

Expat wrote:
fizzix wrote:I'm wondering if your feedmill molasses would benefit from some tomato paste nutrient.


I think you're correct Fizzix, I have been dwelling on nutrients also: I would suggest adding Epsom salt as from my experience that's the key missing element with molasses washes.

Jog,. You're correct about the hydrometer; values are distorted by all the unfermentables.



I thought about about adding some of both or either but would rather let it be. Worst thing is I have to add something & wait another week. I even thought about throwing in some chops so the yeast have something else to chew on.


Tony, I will have to sit down after while & convert it over to non-metric :crazy: so I can do the math.

molasses-6.jpg

Here is the tag from the mill for the molasses. They gave me the newest tag several weeks ago when I asked about it.
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Re: My Molasses Trials

Postby Tony1964 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:44 am

I use this https://www.derbyhousestore.com/en-UK/N ... 147993.htm and I know its in Derbyshire UK
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Re: My Molasses Trials

Postby jog666 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:59 am

I calculated for the temp difference & had a 1.090

molasses-7.2.jpg

molasses-8.jpg


Looked like something was going on VERY slow. Recheck the SG & got the same 1.086. WTF.... Temp is at 74.8*f & corrected is 1.087. Maybe a few yeast cells had a get together but nothing worth a flip. Im sure something happened since I had some bubbles in the airlock.


molasses-9.jpg

So I ground up a B-complex pill & a pinch of epsom salt. Threw it in & gave it a good stir for 10 minutes or so.

Well see what happens over the next week.
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Re: My Molasses Trials

Postby jog666 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:29 pm

3-15-2019
molasses-10.1.jpg

I checked on it & nothing really more than bigger bubbles.

I scooped out some & dumped in a 6oz can of tomato paste, whisked the hell out of it. Dumped that back in & stirred the whole thing for a few minutes. Dumped the last bit of DADY I had into it, less than a tablespoon & found some bakers in the back of the fridge & threw a tbl of it in. The bakers wont take off since its cool inside but it might do something.

3-17-2019
Im not going to open it til later in the week but the airlock is clear of any bubbles.

I think its working off very very slow since it is forming a cap.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Per Tony:

1) weigh the molasses, 1 gallon of mine weighs 11.5# and has a sugar content of 35%.
2) So, 35% of 11.5# is some 4.025# of sugar.
3) lets say do the calculations on say a 4.3 gallon wash which would say normally be around 6# of sugar (my UJSSM).
4) If we need 6# of sugar and say go for 100% Molasses, adjust if you add brown sugar, but, 6# /4.025# = 1.49 gallon of molasses.
5) Lets put that back to weight 1.49 gallon of molasses in # is our 1.49g X 11.5# so, that = 17.135# of molasses would give us similar to6# of sugar.
So 1.5g = 17.25#
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I shortened Tony's formula since Im not to concerned with the abv of the wash. Mainly just the formula needed to figure out what is needed to roughly equal what my UJSSM turns out since Im so used to it. If Im running this wash at roughly 2/3 of what I should, I dont see the harm in adding anything to it to complete the fermentation.

I wonder if adding a scoop or two of chops would really help or not. Thoughts?
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Re: My Molasses Trials

Postby jog666 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:44 pm

3-18-2019
It had a real tart taste to it with no sweetness at all.

3-19-19
Decided to give it a run. Hot damn there are alot of solids in this.
molasses-11.jpg


Took quite a while to get it filtered out. If I knew it was this "dirty" I would had gone with a more course filtering first. Had under 4 gallons since the ferment was 4g total.
47 minutes in it went straight to streaming & fast since the heat was on high. As I was waiting for it to adjust speed after adjusting the heat I got to watching the stream. Acted like water. Took a sample after a bit and was completely disappointed.

molasses-12.jpg

Blue & about 8%. Smelt worse than the swamp out back. Also had a tomato smell which was odd to me. It wasnt ANYWHERE near being done.

Either way, using tony's formula, I picked up 1.5g this time. Added 1g of backset (if it could be called that) & stirred like hell for a few minutes. I took the solids & left over liquid from the first bucket plus more backset to get it just under a gallon. Mixed in a can of tomato paste. While doing all this I kept going back & forth on adding corn or not. My thinking is 1 scoop wont hurt the flavor but if the yeast like the corn/fines, it will help. Dumped that & a half gallon of well water into the new molasses.

It has a sweet tangy taste. I took a 2oz sample to keep back for comparison later. After it cooled down some I pitched some bakers yeast with a b vitamin & epsom salt. Decided to put a heating pad around the bucket & wrap a towel around that to try & keep the heat in. Its easier in the long run than trying to get the whole room temp up where the bakers works better. Later on I was thinking about the wash & temp & all that jazz. It dawned on me that the towel wont be worth a flip for very long so I dug up one of my very well insulated jackets & wrapped that around it.
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Re: My Molasses Trials

Postby Saltbush Bill » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:57 pm

I think your problem is that its not pure molasses. The label clearly says "FEED MILL INGREDIENT #0507"..... and " fat fortified molasses based ingredient blend"
Yes it does contain molasses , but its got all sorts of other rubbish in it as well, such as Vegetable Oil ,artificial flavours , and preservatives just to name a few..
Its a product made to be mixed with dry stock feed such as hay or grains.
If you take the time to read the label carefully and fully it also contains Mold Inhibitor, I wouldn't give my worst enemy Rum to drink that was made from that stuff.
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Re: My Molasses Trials

Postby Yummyrum » Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:20 am

That's a sad start to playing with Molasses :(

I think Salty's on the money .
Its not the real Molasses we use .
It should have kicked off well , I think all that preservative is killing your yeast .

Don't waste your time or money using that same shit again . :thumbdown:

BTW : love your presentation on what you did :thumbup: that's priceless.....thanks
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Re: My Molasses Trials

Postby jog666 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:05 pm

Saltbush Bill wrote:I think your problem is that its not pure molasses. The label clearly says "FEED MILL INGREDIENT #0507"..... and " fat fortified molasses based ingredient blend"
Yes it does contain molasses , but its got all sorts of other rubbish in it as well, such as Vegetable Oil ,artificial flavours , and preservatives just to name a few..
Its a product made to be mixed with dry stock feed such as hay or grains.
If you take the time to read the label carefully and fully it also contains Mold Inhibitor, I wouldn't give my worst enemy Rum to drink that was made from that stuff.


I noticed that when I got the tag & before I filled a bucket but figured I would give it a shot. Got it from the mill I get all my feed & some misc farm stuff from. No questions asked type of place.

I think youre right Bill, there isnt jack shit going on in the air lock. Fewer bubbles than before even with being heated & insulated.


Yummyrum wrote:That's a sad start to playing with Molasses :(

I think Salty's on the money .
Its not the real Molasses we use .
It should have kicked off well , I think all that preservative is killing your yeast .

Don't waste your time or money using that same shit again . :thumbdown:

BTW : love your presentation on what you did :thumbup: that's priceless.....thanks


After 24 hours & the way the airlock looks & smells, this "flavor" of molasses wont get used for this again. I plan to ask them if they can get any other kind before I go out hunting.
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Re: My Molasses Trials

Postby The Baker » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:46 pm

Find a friend with some cattle and get rid of the stuff?

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Re: My Molasses Trials

Postby shadylane » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:02 pm

I'm guessing your molasses is short on nutrients
Try using it in Pintoshine's Fast Fermenting Molasses Wash
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5516
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Re: My Molasses Trials

Postby jog666 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:14 pm

The Baker wrote:Find a friend with some cattle and get rid of the stuff?

Geoff


Getting rid of livestock feed type of stuff is easy between what I have & just a couple friends.


shadylane wrote:I'm guessing your molasses is short on nutrients
Try using it in Pintoshine's Fast Fermenting Molasses Wash
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5516


Im adding some extra to it to help but think its more of a "molasses based liquid" problem. To much other shit in it.


I did find out they also have dry molasses. Called the company to find out what all was in it since the bag said "molasses & roughage". Soybean hulls...... Asked about adding water & that threw him for a loop but played it off like I normally have a "liquid molasses" feeding operation. He also said they are working to get it labeled as "organic". Thinking about getting some & watering it to see how it goes. If all else fails, something else for the lawn mowers out back.
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Re: My Molasses Trials

Postby Saltbush Bill » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:24 pm

Even if it would ferment I don't think Id want to drink the resulting Rum, who knows what the preservatives contain or what the mold inhibitor is for that matter.
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