Cane molass sold as fertilizer in Europe

[Birrofilo]

Hallo,
I live in Italy, and there is not great choice of molasses here, molass being not part of the food culture.

I found this on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.it/dp/B01G8QBC8S/?co ... _lig_dp_it" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

It's decently cheap at €34,00 for 28 kg delivered at home, it is without sulphures. There is a 7kg package to test it.

The obvious problem is that it is sold as fertilizer. Not even cattle feed, fertilizer.

That means there might be some ingredients that are not declared on the label and that might be harmful.

So the question is: is there anybody with sufficient knowledge of the cane sugar industry and technology and typical uses that can tell me in what form is cane sugar used as a fertilizer? Is this exactly the same as cattle feed cane sugar, or could it contain questionable ingredients for our hobby?

Besides, if it is deemed suitable for rum production, is it sweet enough to keep well, or should I buy the smallest quantities available? (I will distill only for personal use, so a 28 kg would last for a long time. Unless I use it, in part, also in my beer wort).

[seamusm53]

Can't speak to labelling laws in Europe but molasses and dried molasses is in fact used as an organic fertilizer. Supposedly attracts and feeds 'healthy' bugs to replenish soil. I'd guess it would be safe in brewing but you arre right to see if there are any possibly dangerous additives.

[DAD300]

Molasses sold as fertilizer in the U.S. has all the sugars removed! It will not ferment. However, that label says 43.7% sugar!

There is such a thing as dried Baker's Molasses (powder) that still has all the sugar.

[seamusm53]

Can't speak for every product but Amazon has multiple sugar containing molasses products sold for fertilizer.

https://www.amazon.com/Mother-Earth-Sug ... fertilizer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[cuginosgrizzo]

Ciao Birrofilo, I don't know how good that is, so I cannot help you with it.

When I made my Rum I bought from these guys:

https://www.panela.it/

I got a 25L bucket of molasses for around 80€, human grade and bio. Results were very good.

enjoy!

[Birrofilo]

Thanks to everybody for you kind answers.

Yes I suspect this product is good but, as said, I am looking for certainties. I will let you know when I discover more.

With a bit more of attention I saw that the seller, NortemBio, is probably the producer himself, and the producer is:

Nortem Chem SL, Alexander Humboldt 12B, El Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz, 11500 ES so it's a Spanish producer.

Most interestingly, the seller description (seller, not producer, but the seller is possibly a "captive" seller of the products of the producer, the name is almost the same) says:

<<
- Nortem Chem, SL è stato certificato per la vendita di alimenti biologici dal servizio di certificazione CAAE (codice ES-ECO-001-AN). Il nostro certificato è disponibile dall'organismo di controllo, sotto il numero di registrazione 25401.
- Sanitari Register 31.003114/CA - 26.017334/CA - 20.046300/CA
- Certificato kosher n. 30400
>>

So the seller has a certificate for the sale of organically grown "food" and it even has a kosher certificate!

The fertilizer itself is sold as "organic" and that should restrict the kind of chemicals that it can contain. But some form of chemical substance is also used in organic agriculture, so that's not a definitive of its suitability for distillation for human consumption.

This is not formally "food" so the certifications might be relative to something else, but, again, it might be food under another marketing name. I asked information about this product using the Amazon function. I will look for some sort of contact information and see if I can manage to contact the producer directly.

They shouldn't be too shy regarding the use for distillation, as they openly say in the description "Speciale per la coltivazione di cannabis." So if you want to grow "kosher" grass, there you have the fertilizer [In Italy the cultivation of Marijuana is an offence, even though it is tolerated in trials up to three plants, while the home distillation is probably not an offence (although it can entail administrative fines)].

https://www.amazon.it/sp?_encoding=UTF8 ... asStoreID=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

@cuginosgrizzo I have contacted the firm at the internet domain you gave me, as they have no price quotes and they don't have any large package, I asked if they have 20kg or so packages, and how much they would charge for "shipping". I will post here their answer as well.

The Panela solution is certainly acceptable, but the Spanish one - if good for distilling - would be not just cheaper but also more practical.

EDIT:
If somebody in Spain can contact them by phone (maybe they'll be more relaxed by phone...) that's the address:


Nortem Chem S.L.
Pol. Ind. Salinas de Poniente. Alexander Humboldt, Nº 12.
El Puerto de Santa María
Cádiz 11500
Telf: (+34) 856 925 095
elpuerto@nortemchem.com

nortembiotechnology.com/

I'll ask now the question in English I hope they will give an answer.

[Saltbush Bill]

Molasses sold as fertilizer in the U.S. has all the sugars removed!

It is impossible to remove all of the sugar from molasses, ask anyone who works in a sugar mill.
Id be very happy to see documented evidence that this can be done ..or hear of the methods used.
I would suggest that if it wont ferment there is another problem other than lack of sugar.

[cuginosgrizzo]

In Italy .... the home distillation is probably not an offence (although it can entail administrative fines)

As long as I know it is a criminal offence, punished with reclusion from 6 months to 3 years, plus a fine for all the alcohol excise taxes not paid (minimum fine is about 7000€). Luckily enough it is not actively enforced.

[Birrofilo]

I just received an anwser from the producer of the cane molasses which draw my attention

<<
[...]
Thank you very much for the interest shown in our products.

We inform you that our Cane molasses can be used for the production of alcoholic beverages, in fact it is a very widespread use of this product. But the Kosher certification does not refer to this product.

As for the date of preferential consumption, it is usually more than two years.

We hope that the information provided is of your interest.
[...]
>>

I think this is very good news. Also the two years preferential consumption is very good news, it keeps very well (due to the high sugar content I presume, which is a bacteriostatic in itself).

[Birrofilo]

In Italy .... the home distillation is probably not an offence (although it can entail administrative fines)

As long as I know it is a criminal offence, punished with reclusion from 6 months to 3 years, plus a fine for all the alcohol excise taxes not paid (minimum fine is about 7000€). Luckily enough it is not actively enforced.

The entire matter was subject to a broad depenalizzazione a few years ago. Only certain types of offence remain punishable as an offence.

Most importantly, the Law 16 marzo 2015 n. 28 introduced in the Codice Penale the article 131bis which allows the judge, for most offences, to examine the "particolare tenuità del fatto" which would make the case unpunishable even though it is literally against the law, if the social consequences of it are very minor.

We have to wait a new case in order to see how judges will apply the new provision of law. That might require a lot of time, though.

For what I found, the last case of a person convicted for illicit distillation for personal consumption was in 1997. The judge raised the questione di costituzionalità
http://www.gazzettaufficiale.it/atto/co ... e=097C1039" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

The question was ambiguously formulated and the Corte Costituzionale did not emit a sentence on the constitutionality of the law, the accused person in the meanwhile made a plea bargain. Since then, no doubt if there had been another case it would have been brought in front of the CC but presumably there never was another case, in more than 20 years!
http://www.contemplata.it/2017/07/la-fa ... alcoliche/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

The law also punishes, according to the letter of it, those who sell stills without certain procedure (serial number of still, registering of the buyer, transmittal of buyers to the relevant office, and such) but we can see stills sold everywhere without any trace of the procedure dictated by the law.
There are many artisans producing traditional copper stills in a completely transparent, and in theory completely illegal manner.
eBay is flooded with insertions, and shops for brewers such as Birramia.it and Pinta.it sell stills online.

Policemen themselves are said to know personal distillation as legal. I think that's the case all over Europe, the letter of the law says it is illicit, but nobody will ever knock your door to search for a still and police and magistratura are not in the least interested in this kind of activity.

If I can make a comparison, betting (a round of wine, for instance) in a public place (while playing cards at the bar, for instance) is illegal, but never goes in front of any judge.

On the other hand, you can easily find many cases of people trialled for illicit distillation for commercial purposes.

[der wo]

I think it will work. And it's very cheap for Europe. AFAIK molasses are transported with ships and then in the harbour the measured sugar content will decide, what it will be used for. The thickest one with the lowest sugar content and highest mineral content is used for fertilizer, because the sugar is not needed for the plants. Low sugar means for Rum low yield but probably more taste. With more sugar it becomes animal food or it will processed to human food (they remove the bitter tasting minerals). Animal food molasses is diluted often, that you can pump it better. So if you have buyed animal molasses an get a surprising low SG, probably it's diluted. And diluted means it should be relatively fresh or it gets moldy.

I would be interested what you say after you have buyed it. Is it thick like honey? Is it bitter? Some kind of moldy taste? I can get the same product from german amazon. I consider to use it for my next Rum.

[Birrofilo]

I would be interested what you say after you have buyed it. Is it thick like honey? Is it bitter? Some kind of moldy taste? I can get the same product from german amazon. I consider to use it for my next Rum.

Very interesting information you give regarding dilution and mold risk.
This should be quite thick as they indicate a fairly extended expiry term, so one would hope for decent gravity of the broth.

I still have to buy my first still, I'm planning all details in advance while I try to make my mind regarding what to buy (which requires a lot of night hours in front of a monitor...)

I will certainly post in this thread the result when I do some rum with this product.

I am still waiting for the answer by the other seller, Panela.it, regarding shipping and quantity, and I will also post it here when I have it. But I will certainly buy the Nortem Chem product first, and I would order from Panela only if this cheaper product is not satisfactory.

[der wo]

I would be interested what you say after you have buyed it. I consider to use it for my next Rum.

I still have to buy my first still,

You should buy the molasses first.
We always recommend new members "first make a mash, then you will build the still much faster."

[Birrofilo]

You should buy the molasses first.
We always recommend new members "first make a mash, then you will build the still much faster."

Sadly my fermenters are already busy brewing drinking beer I'll have to make place for the fourth fermenter.

I received the answer from Panela.it and it is as follows:

<<
La ringraziamo per averci contattati. Purtroppo non facciamo vendita a privati ma possiamo indicarle il sito Macrolibrarsi dove può trovare la ns melassa di zucchero di canna https://www.macrolibrarsi.it/prodotti/_ ... e-500g.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

oppure se preferisce possiamo fare una ricerca per indicarLe i negozi a Roma che tengono questo prodotto

sperando di esserLe stati utili, porgiamo

cordiali saluti
>>

They don't sell to "privates" i.e. final clients, but they point me to an online shop and precisely to a 500g package, which is not what I was interested in.

That said, I really hope the product in the OP will prove suitable.

[cuginosgrizzo]

Ciao Birrofilo, I can confirm what they said: they only sell to shops and such, especially the larger sizes. I asked a friend who is a bartender to buy it for me....

[der wo]

Ok, I did it, I have buyed those 28kg Molasses:
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B01G8QBC8S/ref ... il_3?psc=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
It's the same seller/product like of your Italian link. 33.95€ incl. shipping.

Normally I have buyed:
http://www.euratec.mobi/epages/12027.sf/de_DE/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow?

But it's more than twice expensive. 20l (what is also around 28kg) for 76.88€ incl. shipping.
"Caribbean blackstrap molasses" means Guayana perhaps, Guayana is the largest exporter of molasses from the Caribbean.
What I have buyed now is probably Asian, because they don't write anything on the label. I don't have anything left from the Caribbean stuff, but I think I remember enough to have an opinion, if the cheaper stuff is worth it.

[Birrofilo]

Ok, I did it, I have buyed those 28kg Molasses:
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B01G8QBC8S/ref ... il_3?psc=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
It's the same seller/product like of your Italian link. 33.95€ incl. shipping.

Normally I have buyed:
http://www.euratec.mobi/epages/12027.sf/de_DE/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow?

But it's more than twice expensive. 20l (what is also around 28kg) for 76.88€ incl. shipping.
"Caribbean blackstrap molasses" means Guayana perhaps, Guayana is the largest exporter of molasses from the Caribbean.
What I have buyed now is probably Asian, because they don't write anything on the label. I don't have anything left from the Caribbean stuff, but I think I remember enough to have an opinion, if the cheaper stuff is worth it.

I am very glad there is a freiwillig tester

Sadly I am still in the process of acquiring a still. I have ordered a custom-made kettle, as soon as I receive it I will buy the column for it. At the moment I can only envy those who can make experiments, and enjoy them!

[der wo]

I got it. It's ok. It's relatively clean for blackstrap. Very pleasant taste. No off flavors. Not so bitter like other molasses. Not as intense. Seems easy to make a good Rum with it. But perhaps there are molasses with more interesting flavors. I taste licorice and not much else.
According to the taste, the viscosity and the SG it's a bit thin. Perhaps 1l is 850ml blackstrap and 150ml added water. So you will need a bit more than you think.
All in all it's a very good offer.

[Birrofilo]

Very interesting.

Please let us know if you are satisfied with the result, the final product.
Also, please let us know the "potential specific gravity" of the material (also known as "pre-boil OG" to some people).

***

For those who don't know what the potential specific gravity is, it's the standard density that a certain quantity of fermentable makes in a certain quantity of water, expressed as usual as a comparison to the density of water assumed as 1. It's a numer that says how "thick" will that fermentable make your mash.

The standard density is an absolute number, e.g.: 1,050 (it's the result of a division) and says how dense is a certain liquid as compared to water.

The potential specific gravity of a fermentable is usually expressed as 1 pound of fermentable in 1 gallon of water.

For instance, the fermentable "sugar" has a potential specific gravity of 1,046. This means that a pound of sugar dissolved in a gallon of water gives a solution with a density of 1,046 (or 46 "gravity points"). Malt Extracts for beer making have a potential specific gravity of around 1,044, close to sugar. [If the fermentable is in grain form rather than an extract, the density which is obtained will be reduced by the efficiency loss, so if your extraction efficiency is 70% you will get only 70% of the density expressed by the "potential". With sugar and molasses we can assume a 100% extraction efficiency].

Considering that a pound is 453,592 grams, each gram of sugar adds 46 / 453,592 = 0,102 "gravity points" or, each additional gram of sugar adds 0,000102 to the density of the 1 gallon solution.

By adding a small quantity of molass to a small quantity of water, and measuring the density, it is possible to calculate the potential specific gravity. That makes easy to calculate how much molass one must add to a certain quantity of water in order to obtain a mash of a certain target density.

[der wo]

I don't know what the hell you are talking about.
But I think I know what you want to know:

Those molasses have a SG of 1.400. So mashing for example 1 liter molasses and 3 liter water would result in an OG 1.100. Because molasses contain much unfermentables, which rise the SG, I think the FG will be between 1.045 and 1.050. So you get 6.5-7.2% alcohol. I think mashing those molasses with less water is possible at least up to 10%abv (OG 1.140 - 1.145) with bakers yeast.

[Birrofilo]

Yes, that's what I wanted to know, thanks.

I calculated - hopefully correctly - that corresponds to a "potential" of 1,0355 in ppg (points/pound/gallon) terms (just to compare it more easily with other materials such as sugar or barley extract).

[der wo]

I always try to avoid calculating with imperial units. Actually I also don't calculate with SG but with "Oechsle". But this is almost the same.
The for calcs important difference between sugar/grain and molasses is, that with molasses you get a high OG and also a high FG. No way to ferment a pure molasses wash down to 1.000. I don't know if your calculating system is able to count this in.

[Birrofilo]

I always try to avoid calculating with imperial units. Actually I also don't calculate with SG but with "Oechsle". But this is almost the same.
The for calcs important difference between sugar/grain and molasses is, that with molasses you get a high OG and also a high FG. No way to ferment a pure molasses wash down to 1.000. I don't know if your calculating system is able to count this in.

Yes, I dislike imperial units myself. I actually also always use the comma as a decimal separator
But when I buy any fermentable, in Italy, I find an OG number indicating the potential on the package which is calculated in imperial units, that also is the measure indicated by the Diamalteria Italiana, not just by English malters.

The potential only states the amounts of density that the fermentable, given a certain efficiency of extraction (which is 100% in the case of sugars and extracts) is going to create in the mash, it is a guide to calculate the OG. It is also useful to answer questions such as: "given a 23 litres mash with 1,049 density, how much dried malt extract should I add in order to reach a density of 1,060?". Knowing the "potential" of the fermentable allows to calculate the increment of density for each increment of fermentable, in a given mash volume.

The FG depends on the attenuation of the fermentation, and that depends on the interaction between the yeast strain and the kind of sugars (more or less fermentable by each strain) of the fermentable, which depends from temperature of fermentation, aeration, health of yeast charge, correct pitching, density of mash, stability of temperature, possible infections by other microorganisms. So this is a number which is not indicated in the "potential" of the fermentable matter and is calculated approximately by consulting the yeast data sheet.

For barley malt beers a normal case is an attenuation of 70-75%, give or take. Some yeast strains attenuate more, and using sugar in the mash increases the attenuation because sugar is attenuated at 100%.

I discover now - I am very green - that the attenuation in a all-molasses rum mash is only around 50%. Frankly I thought it was much higher, given the "sugary" nature of a molass, but evidently there's much more than sugar. Maybe specific rum strains can achieve a higher attenuation. Maybe there is a use for all those complex sugars remaining the dunder. Is that healthy to drink? Plenty of minerals, I suppose.

Maybe a rum mash can be fermented at high temperature (let's say 30 or 35 °C, with plenty of congeners, which can be a good thing or a bad thing, considering the temperatures prevailing in the caribbeans perhaps it's not a bad idea to ferment at high temperature, some people do this for whisky as well) to increase the voracity of the yeast. I will also experiment with aeration with pure oxygen (soldering oxygen). Maybe some added enzymes can convert some complex sugars into more simple ones, or some added diastatic malt extract (a bastard between rum and whisky, a rumsky) might contain the enzymes that help convert the complex sugars in the molass. I don't expect you to answer to all those questions, I will search the site, I suppose the answers are already here.

My initial plan was to use beer yeast "crops" from beer production for all distillation washes. Maybe I will use those only for whisky and neutrals, and look for some specific yeast strains for rum.

PS Maybe the problem is the high OG in relation to the yeast: a normal beer yeast would choke on a OG of 1,100 or so. I wouldn't trust an ordinary beer yeast for an OG above 1,050. I am fermenting now a Belgian, OG 1,072, with a specific yeast for high OG of Belgian origin. I bought some wine yeasts already for my distilling washes. I aim at reaching a 70% or so attenuation, in general, for distilling washes. That's certainly possible with whisky and neutrals, also at fairly high OG (1,080 or so) for rum I have to discover.

PPS I see now that the total sugars of molass is < 50%. So there's no way a higher attenuation can be achieved in respect to the gravity added. An attenuation of 50% already means that 100% of the sugars have been fermented into CO2 and alcohols.

[der wo]

In normal grain mashes, almost everything what rises the SG is fermentable, or at least it's possible to make it fermentable (fine milling grade, good mashing protocol, adding enzymes, fermenting on the grain...). But in molasses are things, which aren't possible to convert into fermentable sugars, but rise the SG too.
BTW it's the same with roasted grains: They rise the SG, but you will not get alcohol from it, the starches are destroyed. AFAIK the ppg calculator doesn't know this. It simply calculates what you need for a given OG. In beer making you normally use only 5% roasted grains, so it doesn't matter, but for calculating a molasses wash I wouldn't use the calculator I use for grain.

Normally something like an OG 1.140 wouldn't work well to ferment with normal bakers yeast. But only if it's water and sugar or mashed grain. If it's water and molasses, it works. A high OG molasses wash seems not to stress the yeast like a high OG grain or sugar ferment.
I don't know much about brewers yeasts. I don't know what an molasses-OG they can stand. AFAIK you can use a higher OG than they ferment normally, but this leads to a different flavor. A high OG increases congeners. Good or bad in a Rum wash? I like to get much congeners, if they are too much, I can reduce them with distillation abv and cuts.
BTW also commercial Malt Whisky and Bourbon mashes have a relative high OG. Higher than recommended here normally (6-8%abv). 9%abv after fermentation is average.

[Birrofilo]

BTW it's the same with roasted grains: They rise the SG, but you will not get alcohol from it, the starches are destroyed. AFAIK the ppg calculator doesn't know this.

The ppg is a unit of measure, a bit like you measure acceleration in "meters per second per second", you can measure gravity potential as "points per pound per gallon" or, with metric measures, in "points per hectogram per litre" or "points per kg per l".
It's a datum which describes the fermentable, a bit like the content in alpha acids of a hop describes much of the "bitterness potential" of a hop, but then the actual bitterness of the beer is the result of various factors.

Brewing materials are normally sold with a measure of the "potential" on the label, that's usually expressed in ppg even though that is not stated (it is just stated something like: OG 1044, it should be indicated as "potential 1,044 ppg" to be clear). We don't know exactly the potential of this matter, because the seller doesn't account for the good use we put it to.
It would be interesting in general, for any fermentable, to know its "potential". That allows the calculation of gravity which, given the attenuation, allows the calculation of alcohol content.

Seen how "unfermentable" is sugarcane molass overall, in order to make sense of the datum "potential" for a sugar cane one must make calculation with a very low yield attenuation on the total matter (50% of attenuation or less, instead of a normal 70-75%).

E.g.
Volume of the wash: 23 litres
OG of the wash: 1,090
Estimated attenuation: 45% (here is where we keep account of the low fermentability of the solid matter)
Estimated FG of the alcoholic matter: 1,0405
Estimated alcohol content: circa 6% (5,91% with the standard equation or 6,58% with an alternate equation).

Let's suppose that I prepared a mixed sugar/molass wort and after the dissolution I see that I made a mistake and my wort has a direct density of 1,082, and I want to bring it to 1,090 only by adding molass. How much molass should I add in order to reach the desired 1,090? In order to make this calculation, I need to know the "potential" of the molass. That's what allows me to know how much to add in order to reach a certain density in a certain volume.

I need to add 8 density points to my 23 litres wash.
Potential of this molass: 1,0355 ppg or 35,5 density points per pound per gallon
My wash is 23 / 3,78541 = 6,07596 gallons
If I added 6,07596 pounds I would raise the OG of the 6,07596 gallons of wort by 35,5 points. I only need to raise it by 8 points or 1/4,4375th of it.
So I need to divide 6,07596 by 4,4375 to obtain 1,36923 which is the pounds of molass I have to add to reach 1,090 from 1,082.
1 pound = 453,592 grams
So I have to add 621 grams of molass in order to raise the OG of this wash of 23 litres by 8 points of direct density.

The "potential" of the molass was thus employed during wort preparation to reach a certain OG, regardless of the final result in terms of alcohol content (which is calculated in advance, as we saw).

Also, the potential will tell me how much is the total matter needed to reach the direct density of 1,090 for 23 litres, supposing I want to use only this molass and nothing else:
1 pound in a gallon of water will result in 35,5 density points. I need 90 density points, i.e. 2,53521 times the 35,5 density points.
I need 2,53521 times that density in a 6,07569 times that volume.
Therefore I need 15,40315 pounds of molass (or 6.987 grams) of molass to obtain a wort of 23 litres at 1,090 of direct density.

That assumes your measure of potential (which I translated into ppg) is precise and assumes my calculation is also precise. Else, you could dissolve let's say 20g of molass in 200ml of total water and tell me the exact density observed, so that we can calculate the exact potential of this molass

That will also help in calculating the expected OG of a wort with a mixture of sugar and molass, or a mixture of molass and anything else of which we know the "potential", e.g. two different molasses.

[der wo]

BTW, when you click on the picture of the canister on amazon, you can read "specific gravity 1.40" and "total sugars 43.7%". So one canister with 28kg has 28 x 0.437 = 12.2kg sugars. And the volume is 28 / 1.4 = 20 liter. Now go to https://homedistiller.org/calcs/sugar_sg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow and type in "12.2kg sugar mashed up to 20 liter" (so you try to ferment it without adding water, what of course doesn't work) and the resulting theoretical SG is 1.231, not 1.400. This is the effect of the unfermentables. And the theoretical abv is 35.9%. Now add 60l water ("mashed up to 80l" now you have 1 volume molasses and 3 volume water) and you get 9%abv. More than I expect from my experience and calculating with fermenting molasses. So either not all sugars are fermentable (greetings to thecroweater, perhaps you are right in the "banana flavor" thread) or the high OG stresses the yeast more than I think. I think you will not be able to calculate the exact abv before you have measured the FG. Except it's not the first time you work with those molasses. You get what you get. I would stay in the range OG 1.100 - 1.140 and perhaps let practical reasons decide (how much wash fits to your boiler).

[Birrofilo]

I agree, not possible to calculate the ABV if not after observation of the FG, given a certain OG.

I did not had in mind the calculator which you linked, and which is practical. My usual calculation was
(OGp - FGp) / 7,46 = ABV in %. This is fairly accurate for beers up to 6% ABV.

For repeatibility of results (also in terms of flavour) one should be able to replicate the same OG (using some form of calculation of "potential") and should also be able to replicate the fermentation.

I was considering, up to here, that all sugar content in the molass is fermentable but maybe it is not, or it is only with the help of converting agents (enzymes either added as enzymes, or as diastatic malts).

Very nice the calculator! Lots of mathematic avoided! Just take the percentage of sugars from the label!
It must be considered that the calculator assumes 100% fermentability, though.

So far I assumed that the sugar in sugarcane molass, if kept within reasonable OG range, should be entirely fermented. But I don't know whether the molass also has a content in amids / dextrines that might become fermentable with a conversion.
The label talks about total sugar, wax, ashes, water.
What remains to know is whether the "total sugar" content is all "food for yeast" or not, and also which yeast.
Some strains are particularly voracious and would digest anything thrown at them loosely resembling sugars, so to speak.
I would try some very aggressive yeast such as Mangrove Jack's M31 with this molass.

I have read a report of 91% attenuation in a wort with less than optimal mashing where a normal yeast would produce a 75% attenuation at most.

Certain trisaccarids are food for some strains of yeast and not for others. Yeast have not been created equal and some yeast feed on certain sugars that other yeast can digest only partially, or not at all. Baker's yeast is probably never the best choice, although it can be the cheaper. Purity of the culture is probably not a concern for the producer, as well as alcohol tolerance.
Brewer's yeast has an indication of alcohol tolerance and thus is free from surprises, given normal fermenting conditions.

[needmorstuff]

good find OP! I am going to get 28kg of this. What protocol is best for this in the tried and true? I have been reading a few threads on rum but get turned off by the talk of dunder pits

[der wo]

It depends on if you believe you can add sugar without bad consequences or perhaps even benefits or if you believe it dilutes or perhaps even ruins the flavor.
If you have read the current discussions, you know my opinion and you know other opinions.
Without adding sugar those 28kg molasses will give you 60-70l wash. Each added kg sugar will give you something like 7l more wash. So for example if you take 28kg molasses and 28kg sugar you can have 260l wash.

[needmorstuff]

if it's going to get me 70l of wash @ around 95 then I'm ok with that yield. maybe give me 8 litres of final product? I will do some more reading of recipes but what I am garnering is that its a case off adding water 3:1, fermenting out, strip run and spirit run.. then make your cuts and age on oak